Evolution of a Starport

[Valarian]

Originally posted by ravs:
Next job, I guess is to make the buildings - I'm thinking that these will be a basic porta-cabin modular type arrangement? What units would be required? I can think of:

-Control Tower
-Living Quarters.
-Some sort of simple workshop
-Some sort of energy generating unit. (solar/wind etc).
-Storage for unrefined fuel? Not sure if that's appropriate for a class E starport.

-Control Tower

Definately, even if it's a guy with a radio in a prefab hut.

-Living Quarters.

Not really, an office for the staff but anyone docking at the port has living quarters on their ship. Anyone who wants off the ship can make the trip in to town.

-Some sort of simple workshop

No repair facilities available for starships, but a small workshop for the staff keeping the port working.

-Some sort of energy generating unit. (solar/wind etc).

Yes, a generator for the electrics in the port is a definate. Unless you can rely on local supply, and even then you may want a backup.

-Storage for unrefined fuel? Not sure if that's appropriate for a class E starport.

It's called a river. Build the port next to a conveninent water source and you have ready made unrefined fuel storage.

 

[Elv]

Originally posted by Valarian:
-Control Tower

Definately, even if it's a guy with a radio in a prefab hut.

Technically, for an E port you don't need any buildings, just a hard, flat piece of ground (surrounded by an extrality fence iff the local population and/or wildlife need to be kept out) and an automated landing beacon. However, for the rest of this answer I'll assume the more common one-module port building, with a single port manager.

-Living Quarters.

Not really, an office for the staff but anyone docking at the port has living quarters on their ship. Anyone who wants off the ship can make the trip in to town.

Exactly. There are three staterooms in the class I port module, and apparently two of those often get rented out as hotel rooms.

-Some sort of simple workshop

No repair facilities available for starships, but a small workshop for the staff keeping the port working.

Seems sensible, but not provided for in the module. Maybe the SPA send maintenance teams by every once in a while?

-Some sort of energy generating unit. (solar/wind etc).

Yes, a generator for the electrics in the port is a definate. Unless you can rely on local supply, and even then you may want a backup.

The TU has small, long-lasting self-contained fusion generators. There's no real need for any alternatives (which is a shame from an adventuring perspective).

-Storage for unrefined fuel? Not sure if that's appropriate for a class E starport.

It's called a river. Build the port next to a conveninent water source and you have ready made unrefined fuel storage.

There's no requirement for an E port to provide any, but (as Valarian says) they are usually sited near water where possible.

kaladorn suggested some others:

- ATCC: Aerospace Traffic Control Center
- MSU: Medical Support Unit
- Facilities

These are part of the module, scaled for no more than 3 people.

- TSU: Technical Support Unit
- Storage
- Mess Hall
- Garage Hab

These are not provided, beyond the usual starship passenger/crew arrangements (in this case a small living area and 3.5dt cargo^H^H^H^H^H storage space).

HTH,

John

 

[ravells]

Bromgrev:

So is the assumption that this is an uninhabited world, with everything coming in cutters from off-world?

Either uninhabited or inhabited but low tech. (I would assume a high tech world would already have a starport although not necessarily one run by the SPA.)

Kaladorn:

Shouldn't the blast deflector walls be canted outward to look more like a bowl than a cake...?

That must be right...I'll correct it. Thanks for the facilities list, this will be useful for the reasons I'll explain further below.

Valarian:

You'd still want something to keep people away from the base of the ship while maneuvering was taking place. Remember, every action etc. You don't want people crushed by the gravitic backwash when the ship is taking off or landing.

I'm not sure about the physics of a grav drive, but I was thinking about having a klaxon on the landing pad which gives warnings for people to clear the landing pad prior to a lift-off or landing. - Adds to atmosphere and gives the guy in the control tower something to do.

John G Wood:

Exactly. There are three staterooms in the class I port module, and apparently two of those often get rented out as hotel rooms.

Where are you getting this information from? It sounds like canon stuff but I've never seen it in the LBBs...is it from another source?

General Thoughts

I'm not sure about the landing pads. Strikes me that although the existing linked round pads look cooler, a large flat hard-surfaced rectangular pad would be more versatile and easier to build. Any thoughts on the shape of the landing pad? I'd like to keep round but I really can't see any justification for it.

The assumptions I'm making about the planet at the moment is that it is an uninhabited/low tech earth type world. The idea is to start by building the simplest form of Class E base and then go back and look at it again asking questions like: how would building considerations differ if the world had no atmosphere? corrosive? high winds? hostile (animals or sophonts)? mountainous? All of these factors might require new or different units to the ones presently being used, but I want to do it as simply as possible to start with so I get a big picture.

Then I will start to detail the modelling of the structures a little more for all the units.

Once the Class E port is built, then I'll start adding bits to make it a class D port (Kaladorn's and others' lists will be helpful here). Also I 'll start to cover the evolution of the startown as well.

Next steps: Build the buildings, put in a small man-made lake within the XT line with a pump-house (this fulfills AT Pollard's drainage concern and solution and Valarian's fuel idea. If you need drainage, why not make it work for you?). Also put in a solar panel field (as a back-up to the fusion generator). I think that if this is a Class E starport it means that traffic will be sparse so relying solely on high-tech solutions to essential equipment (i.e. the power generator) might not be realistic.

I'm thinking that the containers left behind by the cutters could either be used as fabric of the buildings themselves or at least as simple warehousing - it means using resources more effectively. Any thoughts about this? Is it practical?

Ravs

 

[Liam Devlin]

Ravs:

The evolution of a starport sounds like a very good way of presenting it, in the proper reverse Order of "X-E-D-C-B-A."

Note--Most Traveller variants of the game list facilities : "None" under this type of port.

By that, they mean, no fuel refininery, no repair yards, no shipbuilding, or spacecraft building, and certainly no TAS-Hotel-Restaurant-Entertainment-Shopping complex.

Extrality "fence?"

------------------------------------------------------------------
Elsewhere...

"Yah! Starjack, see them thar stones at th' edge of th' field?"... Former Scout Tanu Obrik turned a weather eye to where the local hetman in his chainmail and heavy reindeer hide cloak pointed with a hand like sledgehammer. In more primitive cultures they'd have made adequate runestones, Tanu recalled from his First Contact days in the IISS. These moss covered wind scarred dolmens of limestone pitted with age would never have withstood the elements for such memorials. Tanu nodded, looking back at the local barbarian.

"I see them, Avnarr."

"The Horse-tribes have made me speaker to the Starmen--beyond those, tis your throat to step past this field," The barbarian spat away and with the wind, fondling his well worn sword's pommel. "Trade & Barter aye, they kennit well--but trespass off this sward an Yonder pit at the sou' end be your resting place like as not."

"I see no Horse-tribesman Avnarr, only you."

"I gave my oath, to the tribes--I live at their liesure--ye may pass between stars all ye please--, as many times as ye can aye. But no farther on their holy soil, or tis me who will kill thee--and Tanu," Avnarr paused meaningfully, using his given name, " an' I like ye well enow, but there lies the truth O' it, hey?"

Tanu smiled, with his eyes and shook his head. Well, the S-3 will be happy to know things hadn't changed in four years of war since the Zho had been defeated here, he mused, and turned to his Sulieman-class ship's ramp.

"It pleases me to lose such hard won gains bandying a wordsmith & a warrior like you Avnarr," Obrik caught the leading edge of the small cargo lift and watched his "coveted trade goods" reach the ground. "The Emperor's thanks, I am to convey. Being all men of our words, you, He and I, I'll not be trying your blade and wait for the hand barrow, right here, yes?"

Avnarr's scarred craggy face split into an immense broken tooth grin, and after hoisting his hunting horn to his lips, gave the echoing signal to the Tribes that the Emperor's trade, had safely arrived...

------------------------------------------------------------- "Memories of an E-class port, TL3, Somewhere in the Marches, destination classified, date 1110 TI, Tanu Obrik, Detached Scout.

 

[atpollard]

-Storage for unrefined fuel? Not sure if that's appropriate for a class E starport.

It's called a river. Build the port next to a convenient water source and you have ready made unrefined fuel storage.

A 0.3 meter diameter well with a pump can supply enough water flow to fight a fire (up to 4000 liters per minute). That equates to 1 dTon of unrefined fuel every 3.5 minutes delivered almost anywhere.

 

[atpollard]

Extrality "fence?"

Good story.

The strangest thing I ever saw was a boy shoplift from a grocery store in Nogales, Arizona and run 1000 feet over a white painted line in the asphalt walkway and into Nogales, Mexico. The security officer (a private “cop” I think) had to stop at the line. I’ve never been to the US/Canada border, but I hear that in most places it consist of even less than the US/Mexico border.


I would expect a fence if for no other reason than to keep “deer” off the landing field.

 

[ravells]

Excellent! I hadn't thought of of XT lines being used as much to keep the Imperium in rather than the local worlders out.

Ravs

 

[MR TEK]

We crossed the Canidian border in Northern Idaho, in heavy forest.

I think we we finally got a landmark on our map to know where we were close enough to confirm we had crossed the border we where probably a mile or two into Canadian territory.

No markings, of any sort as far as anyone in our group could spot.

 

[ravells]

Went to the pub..er starport bar...tonight. Next iteration of the evolving starport will be tomorrow, I hope.

Ravs

 

[dirk938]

something to think of is the use of native building materials and prefab buildings instead of 50 ton Cutter modules.

wood, stone, concrete, permacrete, ceramacrete, etc.

the use of Quansit Hut type structures to house barracks, shops, storage, offices, cafeterias, and other neccessary acomidations. These are cheap, easilly assembled buildings that can be built in sizes from storage shed to starship hanger.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GypsyComet:
Assuming survey densitometers and a good ground surface map during initial world survey, fault zones generally are pretty obvious. Combine that information with surface gravity readings and IR mapping and you know the most likely active volcanoes. Fortunately subduction zones ("consuming plate margins") are usually under water.

...on Earth. :0)

</font>[/QUOTE]Granted, but since the differences in crustal formation that allow subduction in the first place are due to the presence of large bodies of surface water, you are unlikely to have consistent subduction with its associated volcanic arc on a world that lacks a hydrosphere (be it water or something else). Plate tectonics also require a fairly active molten core. True exotics like Io operate under somewhat different rules, but anyone wanting to set up a starport facility in such a place is a loon, since the slightest weight change could cause the whole "plate" to vanish under the molten sulfur tomorrow.

Now, if you've ever farmed in North America over the Canadian Shield, you'll know that rockpicking is an annual bit of fun you get to engage in. You can totally clear a field of rock one year, and have plenty of work a year or two down the line. The large chunks of granite, sandstone, etc. rock tend to work their way up through the ground and present themselves as a risk for farming. And if you've ever seen what winter in Canada does to most roads (due to freezing and thawing cycles), then you'll appreciate how maintaining any sort of paved or even fused surface in such a situation would be challenging. Maintenance would involve finding a way to prevent upthrust rock and to prevent massive amounts of frost heaving and sinking.

Geology surveys will help, but Starport location on any inhabited world will have more to do with history, politics, and so forth than necessarily the absolute best location. On an empty world, you may well only have cursory geological data for the planet and so you go with the best place you can find, which may still not be all that good.... and thus you may have to deal with seasonal weather effects and movement of large chunks of rock under your pads and other facilities.

Effects like frost heave are not plate tectonic effects, however. If a buck naked colony has even just a visual map from orbit, preferably with radar assist to get the ocean floors, plate structures will tend to jump out at any decently trained Geologist, particularly one you'd bring along on an organized colony trip. By comparison, it takes a close-up soil survey, though a close densitometer survey would do in a pinch, to find likely suspects for frost heaving and rock-picking, since many such places exist in happy equilibrium until some wiseguy comes along and plows the place...

Anyone under the Imperial colonization aegis stands a good chance of having that data available. Ditto for the Zhodani and the K'kree, who value colonial success and precise environmental parameters respectively. By comparison, the Solomani and Aslan love to dive into the unknown, while I wouldn't trust a planetary survey from a Vargr polity or the Hivers without a LOT of double checking (though for entirely different reasons).

One wonders how often the Imperial Starport Authority comes in conflict with the locals for exactly these reasons.

 

[Pickles]

Good point, Dirk, and one of the reasons why I asked about habitation. Even (or especially) a low-tech world would have all the necessary raw materials and labour on hand to build the starport. It makes sense to import the E-class if necessary, but anything more complex should be more cost-effective o produce on-world.

And welcome to CotI, Dirk!

 

[Elv]

Originally posted by ravs:

John G Wood:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Exactly. There are three staterooms in the class I port module, and apparently two of those often get rented out as hotel rooms.

Where are you getting this information from? It sounds like canon stuff but I've never seen it in the LBBs...is it from another source?
</font>[/QUOTE]Well, it is GT "canon", but I see no reason it can't be applied to other versions. Most is from the Modular Cutter book, which was one of Loren Wiseman's "pet projects" that he never managed to get published when at GDW; the rest is from Starports, by John M. Ford, who wrote up the Starport Authority for JTAS back in the day. So, as close to canon as you can get for GT.

John

 

[Liam Devlin]

posted by atpollard:
Good story.

The strangest thing I ever saw was a boy shoplift from a grocery store in Nogales, Arizona and run 1000 feet over a white painted line in the asphalt walkway and into Nogales, Mexico. The security officer (a private “cop” I think) had to stop at the line. I’ve never been to the US/Canada border, but I hear that in most places it consist of even less than the US/Mexico border.

I would expect a fence if for no other reason than to keep “deer” off the landing field.

Thanks for sharing your story too.

posted by ravs:
Excellent! I hadn't thought of of XT lines being used as much to keep the Imperium in rather than the local worlders out.

A Fence or barrier keeps folks "in", as well as keeps folks "out", my freinds.

 

[Liam Devlin]

There was, (and exists in my deadtree files somewhere at the house) from a Traveller fanzine of the MT-TNE era of a prefab kit for a Modular, or "pop-up" build-it yourself D-class port, with the pour mix ceramocrete for blast berms/ pads for 800dtons worth of landing pads (typical is 1x 400dton size, 1x 200dton, 2x 100dton; Modular quarters for the 'Port staff, a Modular Control Tower Building; Modular hangar space (capable of holding 400dt of starship/ within it), Fencing material, a small fusion powerplant to run the port's power needs (Landing beacons, commlink, life support) from included was one 5dton Small Bulldozer with an atmosphere rebreather kit. Typical set up time with 10 sophonts was 30 days.

Tools and machinery needed for the Vessel "Minor repairs", not included. All of this in a 25dton (or so) sized kit (5dt of which was the TL5 bulldozer which you get to keep). Cost was somewhere between 15-30MCr offf the top of my head.

The Kit's total Costs varied with TL6 (Atmo-5,6, 8) modular housing buildings , to TL8 (Atmo 4,7, 9) filtered air Mod. buildings to TL9 Mod. housing Buildings with Airlock equipped (Atmo 0-3, A, B, & C), and of course, shipping & handling from whomever carried it to the new location.

All of the materials (especially the Modular Buildings) came straight from the MT-Rebellion Referee's & Players' Books under equipment.

Other posters are correct though, locally procurable materials are preferred to hold down the initial costs though if beginning with an E-class.

 

[Scarecrow]

I've not read the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been covered.

I read Peter Hamilton's Reality Dysfunction a couple of years ago and whilst I hated it, I did really like his rough and ready Starport building system.

Basically a lander pod drops from an orbital craft. Upon landing it releases heavy machinery to clear flora and level the surrounding terrain. Next a rudimentary landing strip is layed down. The pod then acts as a temporary ATC, offices accomodation, garage, workshop and nav beacon with it's on-board fusion generator supplying power for itself and any shanty huts built in the vicinity. From here, the real purpose-built craft can now land comfortably and start setting up a proper starport.

I'm not sure how Hamilton imagined them, but I picture something like the Space Marine Drop pods from 40K:

Crow

 

[dirk938]

something else to keep in mind. The actual shipyard for building Starships will be in space. Your class A starport will actually be a class B on planet. It comes down to economics. It would be to costly to build a 10,000t no stremlined bulk cargo ship inside an atmosphere.

Your planetside starport might produce small craft.

 

[dirk938]

you might want to think of some sort of blast berms. Just think for a minute how much liquid hydrogen would be at each pad. If a stupid space jock was goofing around or even a land lover who was not familiar with a particular model/tech level engine made an "error in judgement", the fireworkd could be spectacular. Remember that the Hindenburg was gas filled, not full of liquid Hydrogen.

You will als need a long landing strip or two. Fighters and Pinnaces land and take off using runways whenever possible to save fuel and increase payload.

Nothing beats the thrill of making a high speed low altitude run to the landing strip. There is no excitement in a zero/zero landing. you might as well be docking in space if your doing that. Streamlined smallcraft are ment to "fly through the atmosphere".

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Dirk:
something else to keep in mind. The actual shipyard for building Starships will be in space. Your class A starport will actually be a class B on planet. It comes down to economics. It would be to costly to build a 10,000t no stremlined bulk cargo ship inside an atmosphere.

Your planetside starport might produce small craft.

One of those factoids lost in the old materials is that downports are typically built to handle up to 5000 dTon ships, as anything bigger, even streamlined, gets unwieldy in a hurry. This has also been considered to include construction facilities. As such, a world with no highport will probably not be building unstreamlined hulls or anything bigger than 5000 dTons. The limit on streamlining ceases to be an issue if the world is one of the many airless balls of rock populated by the Imperium.

Smaller hulls make (invisible to the game) economic sense to build on the *ground*, as they simply aren't expensive enough to justify months of orbital berth space if they don't need to be built there.

 

[GypsyComet]

"There is no excitement in a zero/zero landing."

That depends entirely on which of your gauges are on Zero...