Experience

[savage]

I'm not a big fan of experienced based gaming but I thought I'd give it a try. I read through the D20 (AD&D) open source section on experience.

Have any of you setup estimates for the experience value of various enemies in Traveller? And how much experience do you prefer to give out for a Traveller Adventure.

For example;
Virus 3000dt destroyer
Vargr 400t corsair
green troop
veteran troop
elite troop
Warbot


Thanks Svage

 

[Flynn]

T20 experience uses the Star Wars model instead of the D&D model. You gain experience based on the adventure. An short, single session encounter might be worth (1000 X Average Character Level) in xp, while a complete adventure would be worth (4000 X Average Character Level), although it might take several sessions to complete.

With that in mind, you really don't have to mess with the CR System, which is hard to implement in T20 as a number of the basic premises for that system are invalidated in T20.

Barring that, if you choose to use the CR System anyway, I would suggest that each encounter is worth a CR equal to the Average Character Level, modified by the difficulty of the encounter, as set forth in the experience/rewards chapter of the DMG.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Sorry, forgot to add this, in case you didn't have the actual DMG:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DMG_XPFinal.asp

The text of the final chapter of the original 3rd Edition DMG, including the Modifying Encounter Levels suggestion I made in the post above.

Be sure to save a copy of this page, in case they decide to pull it down later.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[savage]

Thanks Flynn,

I think laying down a framework for the value of a certain encounter (CPs) would be beneficial starting point. Otherwise, 4000xcharacter level is a lot of generic points for a small group on a multi-session
campaign.
Perhaps, this level of guidance should have been in THB.

Savage

 

[Flynn]

They can't, or at least I don't think they can. The actual point values for various encounters by CR are not in the SRD (or at least, they weren't when I last looked), so it's something they can't refer to.

Fortunately, there are a few Traveller players that dabble in D20 Systems, to help with some of this.

As for assigned CPs, or whatever you desire to call them, I personally think that, as Traveller is not a conquest-oriented game, you are doing a disservice to the genre and the system if you decide to go that route. IMO, YMMV, of course.

As it stands, Challenge Ratings (CRs) are based on the amount of challenge that the encounter represents in combat. Specifically, this assumes that a typical party of four adventurers of X character level can take out the encounter using only 25% of their resources. X then becomes the CR of the creature.

So, in order for you to assess the CRs of these encounters, you will first need to design a typical party of four adventurers. In D&D, that's a fighter, a rogue, a cleric and a wizard. You could use the same (but it doesn't seem right), or you could decide what the typical adventurer party in Traveller looks like (perhaps a Marine, a Navy character, a Merchant and a Scout). Then pit them against the encounter, using characters of various levels, until you hit the magic number.

Or you can take the less involved, more story-based route, and assign each encounter with a CR equal to that of the party's average character level, and modify for difficulty, as mentioned above.

I would recommend the second approach, myself, if I were to go that route. Frankly, though, I don't have a problem with the XP awards given in T20, and use them as is.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

BTW, to clarify, the awards given in the THB are given at the end of an adventure. If it takes three sessions, that's cool. If it takes eight sessions, that just means they gained less per session on the average.

If you are seeking a 'per session' award that works for a continuing campaign, simply give each party member 250 X Average Character Level per session. (That's the same as giving a party of four 1000 X Average Character Level, divided among its members). This will allow the average character to advance in level once per four sessions, which is the intended rate of advancement in D&D.

If you want a slower progression, figure out how many sessions you want them to take in order to advance, on the average, and divide that number into 1000. Round off the results to get a Base Value. Each session, award each character the Base Value X Average Character Level in xp, and they'll advance at the rate you've determined.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[savage]

Flynn,
I'm from the CT era and not particularly fond of any progression system. Went through a large discussion on the T5 thread regarding whether its a positive or negative. Many Hardcore D20 players were religous about keeping XP in D20.

Unfortunately, it was placed into THB as a piece of the system, not an option. I could home rule it out of MTU but I might as well give it a brief chance.

I believe establishing XP based on a multi-session
or single session "generic" number is the lazy flaw. Without defining the CR benefit of appropriate challenge (beating the Corsair or warbot) the progression system is not relevant (a waste of ink).

A zero progression system is what traveller is built out on. A character can learn through months of study, on the side, or through an instructor.
But that requires instruction skill rules.

Having a comparison or chart for T20 CR would be helpful. Not having that I took a stab at a direct
relationship (task to XP).
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/savage/1WorldOrder/Home-Rules/T20-Home-Rules-XP.html


Savage

 

[Flynn]

Well, Savage, I must say that, while I don't like it, it doesn't mean that it's not right for other groups. I do like that you're trying to find something that makes you happy.

Personally, if you're going to go that route, why not follow the example of the T20 prior history system, and just award XP based on time, a flat 1000xp per year. (This is in keeping with similar concepts I've seen presented for CT back in the day.) If you think they've accomplished something of significance, like gain a promotion of sorts, award a similar reward. For the equivalent roleplaying scenarios of the various honors and recognitions, add the appropriate award from the prior history system (max of one such award a year). Each year, you could set a difficulty based on the activity in regards to the earning of Bonus XP, and make everyone test for the extra 1d4 X 1000 xp award for that. (Or require that three months of training or the equivalent might give a standard 1000xp award, or something like that.)

Just a thought, and still in keeping with the slow progressions given by the prior history.

Two more creds,
Flynn

 

[Pagan priest]

My complaint with CT was always that characters had no room to grow once you stopped prior history, totally unrealistic.

I finally read the T20 experience point rules last night. Eh, they work. Not the greatest, perhaps, but logical. In many ways, more appropriate to Traveller than a huge chart with CR values would be. For a D&D type game, the point is all about murdering innocent monsters and stealing their loot, so the experience points need to reflect that. (When I run D&D, when the party completes a task, there is a reward of experience points.)

In Traveller, killing bad guys is its own reward. It doesn't really matter whether the bad guys are attacking with an Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser or an inflatable raft with a maneuver drive taped on. Either they are a significant plot point, and therefore covered in the xp award at the end, or they are a time wasting distraction and should have no intrinsic xp value.

 

[someoneelsehasmyname]

A problum I see with CRs in T20 vs D20 is in D20 combat is less deadly. In T20 your level isn't as important as your BAB and Dex. A 1st level marine has the chance to kill a avarage unarmered person with 4 round bust with a autorifle (avarage damage of 18) in 1 round. Making the equipment you have almost as important as the charicters level. In D20 the xp you get for defeating a creature goes down the higher the avarage party level because the party becomes more formidable (better spells, magic items ext.)
To get a working CR system in T20 you would have to take into acount the partys weapons, armor, and other equipment on all three scales(Ship, vehicle, personal) to find out the partys CR, and again for whatever they are fighting.

 

[savage]

To get a working CR system in T20 you would have to take into acount the partys weapons, armor, and other equipment on all three scales(Ship, vehicle, personal) to find out the partys CR, and again for whatever they are fighting.

Well said. That's the problem. A Ref should, at the least, have a concept of the CR for several scenarios.

My complaint with CT was always that characters had no room to grow once you stopped prior history, totally unrealistic.

No insult intended but the game was not being ran correctly. Non-progression doesn't mean "end of growth". Your character can seek an instructor (with instruction skill and expertise in the field you wanted) or self-educate (study for several months a couple hours a day) for a skill.

In one senario a land based character was bored when we we're flying from planet to planet. He was
an army general and decided to write a book on his view of tactics in his cabin. He had instruction skill and tactics. Any player that read the book learned the basics of tactics...incidentally it
was a hit on the market and he had a residual income.

 

[TKalbfus]

CR is not only a guide for how much experience points to award, but also a guide for setting challenges for the players. With T20 as it is, we don't have a rough and ready rule for setting challenges. The GM has to guess what an appropriate challenge would be. If he wants to be safe, he'll throw an obviously easy challenge the Character's way. Lets say you do a T20 version of the classic introducotry adventure "The Imperial Fringe" You convert the initial brawl scene into T20 rules. This is easy enough, only melee weapons are used, so you can take the opponents stamina dice and add their lifeblood to determine the CR, fairly straignt forward. At the end of the Adventure the part of say 4 players gets a scout ship, you use the scout ship in the T20 Manual. The party of characters now take off in the Unarmed Scout ship from the planet Regina and head to the nearest system where they can survey and equip the scout ship with weapons. Now what would be an appropriate challenge for the GM to through their way? The Scout Ship is unarmed as it takes off from the planet's surface. A Pirate Corsair could probably destroy the Scout Ship, but Pirates are interested in making a profit from ill gotten loot and destroying scout ships just doesn't do it for them. The scout ship is worth money however, so the pirates would probably be interested in capturing the scout ship and selling it on the black market. The pirates would no doubt try to get onboard the scout ship, capture the players and perhaps try to ransom them to their relatives. The Players would in turn try to evade capture. It all depends on who has the faster manuever drive, how close the pirate ship gets, and whether they disable the manuever drive before the players can get away. I don't know what CR to assign the pirates though.