Extra 0-level skills at the start of a game?

[welsh]

Yea, there are millions of people that use a computer today but have no "Computer Skills".

There are millions of New Yorkers that have no idea how to operate a vehicle.

There are millions of drivers that may have "Drive Car-0" or "Drive Car-1" but have no mechanical skill whatsoever.

A million times yes.

Characters created with Book 1 are given all the weapon skills in that book at Level-0....

I've said elsewhere recently that this is a silly rule, for the reason starting posted above. It exists to keep players from whining when you tell them that no, you can't just pick up a gun and shoot because you saw a movie once.

Level 0 skills ought to be handed out with care.

 

[Timerover51]

Spinward, are you going to count those extra Level-0 skills against the Skill Level cap total, or are those in addition to the Skill Cap Level?

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

I can see where Trade Class might be matrix-ed against Tech Level to determine default skills. For instance, a person from an Ag-world with a TL of 5 or less would likely have Equestrian-0 as a default skill, a person from an Ag-world with a TL of 6 to 8 would certainly have Vehicle (Ground)-0, while another person from an Ag-world with a TL of 9+ may even have Robot Ops-0.

Some worlds would have a certain minimum TL. For instance, an Asteroid Belt would require a minimum of TL 7 (for space travel) just to have Vacc Suit-0.

I like the idea of specific default skills being acquired for each career type. Going by Supplement 4, Citizens of the Imperium, we could have five skills per profession, with the player's option to choose any 3:

Barbarian - Brawling, Hunting, Survival, Tracking, Weapon
Belter - Broker, Prospecting, Demolitions, Vacc Suit, ...
Bureaucrat - Admin, Bribery, Broker, Computer, Legal
Diplomat - Admin, Carousing, Liaison, ..., ...
Doctor - Admin, Computer, Dagger, Instruction, Vehicle
Flyer - Admin, Communications, Computer, Electronic, Mechanic
Hunter - Brawling, Hunting, Survival, Tracking, Weapon
Noble - Admin, Instruction, Leader, Legal, Liaison
Pirate - Brawling, Blade Combat, Broker, Gambling
Rogue - Brawling, Bribery, Forgery, Gambling, Streetwise
Sailor - Admin, Communications, Computer, Electronic, Mechanic
Scientist - Admin, Computer, Electronic, Mechanic, Robot Ops

(Disclaimer: I did these "off-the-cuff", so your results may vary)

It could get really complicated, really fast.

 

[pendragonman]

Spinward, are you going to count those extra Level-0 skills against the Skill Level cap total, or are those in addition to the Skill Cap Level?

They are level zero, so they count zero towards the cap is my guess.

And if we get away from just CT (since this thread isn't flagged CT-only) Mongoose (and if my memory isn't completely fried, TNE) have lists of zero level background skills and give characters a basic package of zero level skills when they get their first career.

 

[khadaji2002]

They are level zero, so they count zero towards the cap is my guess.

And if we get away from just CT (since this thread isn't flagged CT-only) Mongoose (and if my memory isn't completely fried, TNE) have lists of zero level background skills and give characters a basic package of zero level skills when they get their first career.

MgT for sure has 0-level skills for both background and first career. Background skills are 3+EDU modifier (giving a range of 1-5), chosen from the trade classification of the PC's homeworld and/or the EDU skill list. Then the PC gets all the service skills at level 0 from the first career they take. Should they change careers they get one level 0 skills from the service list of the new career. So there are a number of level 0 slots available depending on character creation rolls.

I tend to allow a PC one or two extra level 0 skills if the character has any obvious skills holes given their background.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

What extra 0-level skills would you give to characters at the start of a game?

I'm thinking things like Computers-0 or Imperial Culture-0 or even Spacer Knowledge-0. Things that should be mandatory, just for being trained by the Imperium or an Interstellar MegaCorp or such - like something everyone except a Barbarian should have. Or like something a new player wouldn't think of to ask about if they could make an EDU roll for it.

I don't give out skills ever. It opens a can of worms, and creates a sameness about the characters. If something is mandatory, then there's no need for a roll to go with it.

 

[Brandon C]

The T5 career skill level is the number of terms served in that career.

I think this was a house rule for CT, where it covered things not falling under any existing skill.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

I don't give out skills ever. It opens a can of worms, and creates a sameness about the characters. If something is mandatory, then there's no need for a roll to go with it.

I used to feel that way, too. Then I started paying attention to those lectures you receive on cruises, flights, camping trips, and church retreats. Translated into Traveller default skills, I have acquired: Survival (Ocean)-0, Watercraft (Motorboat)-0, Watercraft (Canoe)-0, Watercraft (Kayak)-0, Medical (First Aid)-0, Survival (Wilderness)-0, Hunting/Fishing-0, Equestrian (Horse)-0, Vehicle (Golf Cart)-0, Weapon (Paintball)-0, Aircraft (Hang-Glider)-0, and Blade (Machete)-0. Not one can of worms in sight ... except for the fishing skill, of course.
My point is that a RW person who pays enough attention to what's going on simply can't help but pick up a few default skills along the way, so why not Traveller characters too?

 

[Supplement Four]

I've said elsewhere recently that this is a silly rule, for the reason starting posted above. It exists to keep players from whining when you tell them that no, you can't just pick up a gun and shoot because you saw a movie once.

I can't agree. I can see the logic in allowing a character who has been in the Imperial Marines and has served across the subsector to have basic expertise with basic weapons.

Supp 4 characters don't have that rule, and those careers are mostly careers for regular people. The Book 1 careers are mostly for military type characters.

Supp 4 are mostly homeworld bound careers.

Book 1 feature mostly Travellers.



Therefore, I can see the logic in giving the military based Traveller careers basic knowledge in weapons. The rule doesn't include the weapons in Book 4. It's only the weapons in Book 1. Generic weapons like the shotgun, autorifle, and autopistol--the weapons of most familiarity.

Level 0 skills ought to be handed out with care.

But, I can agree with that.

 

[coliver988]

I personally like the level-0 based on home world & intelligence (or was that education - argh, failed my INT roll again!) By the time you are 18 (or 14 in case of Barbarian or Belter) you are bound to have picked up a few skills. While shop class is not as popular, back in the day a kid out of high school could have at least mechanic-0, drive-1 if they did races.

I also like the Mongoose version of package skills: the group picks what sort of game they are playing, and the package has the skills to be passed out if the players don't have them (sometimes the random generation just does not do what you would like). I did that in my last game as I only had 2 players - I actually reduced 1 player's skills (generated via a Megatraveller site) and bumped the other one from a 0 to a 1 just so I would not have to have an NPC do all the work for them.

 

[welsh]

Supp 4 characters don't have that rule, and those careers are mostly careers for regular people. The Book 1 careers are mostly for military type characters.

Such as merchants? Or x-boat pilots?

I see some holes in that reasoning.

 

[kilemall]

I can't agree. I can see the logic in allowing a character who has been in the Imperial Marines and has served across the subsector to have basic expertise with basic weapons.

Supp 4 characters don't have that rule, and those careers are mostly careers for regular people. The Book 1 careers are mostly for military type characters.

Supp 4 are mostly homeworld bound careers.

Book 1 feature mostly Travellers.



Therefore, I can see the logic in giving the military based Traveller careers basic knowledge in weapons. The rule doesn't include the weapons in Book 4. It's only the weapons in Book 1. Generic weapons like the shotgun, autorifle, and autopistol--the weapons of most familiarity.

I can see your second point about S4 careers generally speaking not automatically being skilled in military class weapons, although the Sailors and Flyers should be considered military careers as they operate/maintain vehicles so armed.

But I don't see your first point about S4 careers being homebound. Those are all Travellers, even if something like Barbarians and Bureaucrats are more accidental travellers. They get Passages, some get TAS, others get starships, they just aren't military, more Others with Benefits.

They are all Out There in the Big Dark.

 

[Condottiere]

Specifically limiting the type of firearm the character is familiar with.

Barbarians might use gunpowder weapons, sarariman might keep a revolver at home for protection.

A colonist could have been taught the basics of a hunting rifle.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Spinward, are you going to count those extra Level-0 skills against the Skill Level cap total, or are those in addition to the Skill Cap Level?

I was thinking 'in addition to', but I'm not sure.

I'm also looking at it like this and wondering how I could use these instead of 0-level skills:

Intelligence
- Reasoning
- Ingenuity

Education
- Learned Techniques, Tactics, and Strategy
- Information and Knowledge

Would just a basic attribute roll accomplish the same thing or would there have to be some overarching skill added to it? If it's just an attribute roll, the player could try for anything and possibly get success. Tying a skill to it limits the possibility.

I'm scratching my head on this one.

 

[Timerover51]

Spinward, I have been giving this some thought, and I am now leaning to a certain number of "0" level skills in addition to those generated during character generation. My reasoning for this is a follows.

Under the game character generation system, the character is generated as if it is "tabula rosa" or a "blank slate", with no prior knowledge or experience. At age 18, this would clearly NOT be the case. By age 18, i had spent a month on a dairy farm, and knew how to milk a cow, drive a farm tractor, bail hay and stack properly, work with hogs and turkeys (the dumbest bird I have ever encountered), so essentially Farming Level-0. I had also learned basic shooting skills and could use a .22 safely, learned how to fish and paddle a canoe, and learned how to program in FORTRAN. Oddly enough, I had not really learned how to drive and I did not have a driver's license.

In thinking about that, in both the Middle Earth Role Playing Game and Rolemaster, put out by Iron Crown Enterprises, there was provision for some prior skills learned in the course of growing up that may or may not be useful to the character in the game, but gave each character much more of a feel of a real person, rather than an artificial construct.

As there would be skill learned in the course of growing up, maybe limit the number to say, one-half of the Education Level, rounded up, with consideration of the home world background, if known. What might be also useful is a list of possible 0-level skills that might not be the same as the skills generated in the course of die rolling, like my Farming-0 skill. My FORTRAN programming might carry over to computer skill, as might my .22 training to Gun Skill, but that would be up to the Game Master.

I am not sure if this will help you, but it is what has been churning around inside of my skull, which hopefully means that there is something present between my ears than bone and vacuum.

 

[McPerth]

In thinking about that, in both the Middle Earth Role Playing Game and Rolemaster, put out by Iron Crown Enterprises, there was provision for some prior skills learned in the course of growing up that may or may not be useful to the character in the game, but gave each character much more of a feel of a real person, rather than an artificial construct.

Those were adolescence skills, and would be (IMHO) more or less the equivalent to the background skills given in MT due to homeworld.

As there would be skill learned in the course of growing up, maybe limit the number to say, one-half of the Education Level, rounded up, with consideration of the home world background, if known. What might be also useful is a list of possible 0-level skills that might not be the same as the skills generated in the course of die rolling, like my Farming-0 skill. My FORTRAN programming might carry over to computer skill, as might my .22 training to Gun Skill, but that would be up to the Game Master.

I'm not sure about using EDU for this, as EDU represents (as I understand it) schooling, and even a uneducated street thug is likely to know some skills (streetwise, brawling, blade, vehicle or gun combat, just to give some examples) at 0 level at 18 years. See taht if we use half education, this street gang thug would need EDU 8 (that probably represents secondary studies) to have all four skills (I guess not unlikely on his background).

As referee, I used two methods for it:

• Just assign them as I see fit for the homeworld and background
• Using some tables where one could pick some skills (IIRC I used 6, that was time ago).

Those tables were based on EDU, SOC and TL of the homeworld, so taht a low EDU character would rarely obtain educational skills, not would a low tech homeworld one obtain computer, juis to give two examples.

See that this also would depend on the rules used, as the number of exisitng skills is not the same in all of them, and the number of skills a character knows should (again IMHO) be proportional to it, as more skills use to mean narrower ones.

As for using EDU or INT (or even SOC in some situations), as Spinward talks about, I use them for knowledge or deduction of things that the character would probably know but the player doesn't. I used a number of dice against the stat depending on how difficult was the information.

Examples:

• What date was XXX battle? EDU check
• Relating some clue with something the character knows (but the player is likely to have forgotten): INT check
• Using proper manners: SOC check (this might be influeced by carousing or even steward skill, though)

 

[Supplement Four]

Such as merchants? Or x-boat pilots?

I see some holes in that reasoning.

Of course you do. Anybody would. I was speaking in the general sense.

I can see your second point about S4 careers generally speaking not automatically being skilled in military class weapons, although the Sailors and Flyers should be considered military careers as they operate/maintain vehicles so armed.

But I don't see your first point about S4 careers being homebound. Those are all Travellers, even if something like Barbarians and Bureaucrats are more accidental travellers. They get Passages, some get TAS, others get starships, they just aren't military, more Others with Benefits.

They are all Out There in the Big Dark.

Again, I was speaking generally about the careers. Doctors, Barbarians, Flyers and Sailors are all mostly bound to one world.

Remeber, a Traveller is a special class of person in the 3I. It is expensive and not comfortable to travel between worlds. So, most people don't.

Even a career like a Belter, who lives in space and zips around the system, most likely spends close to all of his time in that one system--not traveling.

 

[kilemall]

Again, I was speaking generally about the careers. Doctors, Barbarians, Flyers and Sailors are all mostly bound to one world.

Remeber, a Traveller is a special class of person in the 3I. It is expensive and not comfortable to travel between worlds. So, most people don't.

Even a career like a Belter, who lives in space and zips around the system, most likely spends close to all of his time in that one system--not traveling.

Hmmm. No.

Traveller generally speaking isn't about the career the character came from. It's about what the character is doing after their main career is done.

 

[kilemall]

And as to stats vs. skill, I'd say my STAT-7=DM method is probably very radical compared to most, so I'm not averse to relying on native ability.

But skill counts too, which is why there are routine tasks that are simple for the skilled or at least avoiding disaster, whereas a non-skilled person does not know what they are doing with potentially bad consequences.

I think it is just as character-defining as to what the character cannot do as much as what they can do.

And adventure-generating, if the character has to seek out someone to do what they cannot.

 

[welsh]

I think it is just as character-defining as to what the character cannot do as much as what they can do.

Exactly my view.

I'm not opposed to background level 0 skills, but you have to guard against assumptions that everyone can drive and shoot a gun and so on.