And all of these issues around assigning 0-level skills are ultimately why I decided there's a "Traveller Uncertainty Principle" around skills: once you start down the path of "X number of 0-level skills" you will inevitably leave some out. This is why I've opted for the homeworld + prior career = some undefined set of "things your character can do or knows" (I hesitate to even call them "skills", since they can apply to any type of throw). For CT this makes sense to me, but realize this may not make sense for MT on, where skills/term and the skill lists expanded greatly.
Extra 0-level skills at the start of a game?
- Thread starter Spinward Scout
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As I start to embrace the idea for Classic Traveller (limited primarily to Books 1-3) that skills are not what you know, but what you are good at under pressure, and that we aren't going to roll for things that don't happen under pressure, then the need for background skills drops away, especially when you add the idea that the character's background may also be relevant. So yea, pretty much where you're going.
Frank
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
That's not what I said at all.
What I said was that Travellers are a special class of people. They're the people that travel among the stars.
Most people in the 3I do not travel often or very far. They're not "Travellers". They stay on their homeworlds and/or in their home systems, for the most part.
Travelling is expensive. It costs 8,000-10,000 Credits a jump (not a journey), and when you travel, typically, the conditions are cramped. I've said before, travelling in Traveller is akin to spending $8,000 for a room on a shrimp boat for a single leg of a journey.
Compounding this is homeworld tech level and planetary conditions.
Travellers are a small part of the population.
[m;]The digression triggered by this was moved to: Shipboard Conditions[/m;]
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Keklas Rekobah
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I like that term. Mind if I use it?
Then there is always rolling at or under the character's INT score for "Figuring things out, just this once", and at or under the EDU score for "Remembering things once learned", especially when doing away with the JoT skill.
No, of course not: feel free. It's worth everything you paid for it...
Yes, there are a number of built-in ways in CT to handle "things Travellers know or know how to do" without resorting to delimited 0-level skills. It's one of the most flexible things about CT, which also accommodates layering on additional 0-level skills, if one wishes to.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
Getting back to the topic ...
According to LBB1p23:
A person with Admin-0 might be able to get through the DMV in an hour, while someone with no Admin skill at all might have a panic attack when asked to stand in another line and start all over again.
A person with Electronics-0 might be able to set up his home entertainment system without having to ask the neighbor's 10-year old kid for advice. A person with no Electronics skill at all would likely have that kid on speed-dial.
A person with Medic-0 might have taken a course in First Aid and be able to perform CPR. He or she may even be able to work one of those defibrillator machines without having to read the instructions first.
I see no destabilizing influence in allowing each character to have a few default skills.
According to LBB1p23:
Another way of looking at default skills are those that are largely self-taught or learned by trial-and-error. An equivalent primary-school education may also qualify as a default skill. Really basic stuff.
A person with Admin-0 might be able to get through the DMV in an hour, while someone with no Admin skill at all might have a panic attack when asked to stand in another line and start all over again.
A person with Electronics-0 might be able to set up his home entertainment system without having to ask the neighbor's 10-year old kid for advice. A person with no Electronics skill at all would likely have that kid on speed-dial.
A person with Medic-0 might have taken a course in First Aid and be able to perform CPR. He or she may even be able to work one of those defibrillator machines without having to read the instructions first.
I see no destabilizing influence in allowing each character to have a few default skills.
Timerover51
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Going back to the original post, Kelly, here is a few more ideas from me, for what they are worth. Hopefully more than a tuppence.
One idea would be to let players use some of their actual background for Zero-level skills, like my example of Farming-0, or if a military background, then some form of Weapon-0, if they do not roll a weapon skill.
Home world would be good, but then you have to determine what is the "Home World", and that might not be that easy, as demonstrated by another thread.
Then you could wait until the character generation is finished, and see what skills the player has. At that point, roll a D6, divide by 2, and then assign the determined number of Zero-Level skill based on the character's career, and what skills would normally be expected that the character does not have.
I like that. Might give more of a connection to their character that way.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's an option, in the sense that in the short term you wouldn't have a morale penalty, or it effects efficiency.
My take on it was that the Confederation Navy can easily run a Tokyo Express, if they suddenly need to surge troops on a specific planet, or that instead of a Frozen Watch.
My take on it was that the Confederation Navy can easily run a Tokyo Express, if they suddenly need to surge troops on a specific planet, or that instead of a Frozen Watch.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
As I posted earlier, translated into Traveller default skills, I have acquired: Survival (Ocean)-0, Watercraft (Motorboat)-0, Watercraft (Canoe)-0, Watercraft (Kayak)-0, Medical (First Aid)-0, Survival (Wilderness)-0, Hunting/Fishing-0, Equestrian (Horse)-0, Vehicle (Golf Cart)-0, Weapon (Paintball)-0, Aircraft (Hang-Glider)-0, and Blade (Machete)-0. Maybe I could just pick my favorite three, and be done with it, eh?
This list does not include any skill that requires formal training, a license, or diploma - how would you rate an Amateur Radio Extra Class license in Traveller terms, anyway?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I think that Amateur Radio license should at least earn you an Electronics-1. I am not sure if my roughly 1 hours of flight time in various small planes as a pilot would count.
I did have a formal class in Alaska on cold-weather survival, and Aramis should qualify with at least a Cold Weather Survival 2 or 3 from living in Alaska. Adding in my Army skills would get expert with an M-16 and .45, along with several cruises. My Supply Management Officer course might qualify for Admin-1, or at least Admin-0, then my time as Battalion Personnel and Admin Officer.
I have given thought to not rolling all skills, but determining what a player is bringing to the game in background and using that for some of the skills. I remember being in a Morrow Project game where the Game Master let me have a full demolitions kit, and the next session I bought in my Army Demo cards. The poor kid about died, realizing that he had just created a monster.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
You know, reading through this I think it would be easier to just have a list of what would be typical skills for the home world tech level and then some list of modifiers to that for things like climate or gravity.
For example, you have a character TL 8 world. The law level is 9 and the government is a technocracy.
So, you get no weapons skills. You have vehicle 0. You have a choice of electronics 0 or computer 0. The world is low gravity so you have zero-G combat 0 (because you have spent your life being able to bounce around in that environment and are just used to it. No, you aren't super good at it in terms of fighting, but you have somebody that's rarely or never done it beat by miles)
I think this sort of system would be more relevant. Your home world was a regimented, strict place? You get different skills from one where you lived in an environment where there were next to no laws.
You come from a low population planet? That'd affect the chances of you being exposed to many things regardless of tech level. On the other hand you'd have better coping skills when you are on your own and have to figure out stuff for yourself (like having a JOT 0 or 1 maybe).
The system needs to be based on the whole environment, not just one or two factors.
I'd add that as tech level rises and population rises a character should be given more "free" choices to go along with the set skill set. The reason for this is as TL goes up there's simply more stuff you can learn about. As population goes up there's more opportunity to do things just as there is in a big urban location versus a small rural town.
Then you modify that by government and law level. Someone that's coming from an oppressive dictatorship will have less opportunity than from an open and free society.
For example, you have a character TL 8 world. The law level is 9 and the government is a technocracy.
So, you get no weapons skills. You have vehicle 0. You have a choice of electronics 0 or computer 0. The world is low gravity so you have zero-G combat 0 (because you have spent your life being able to bounce around in that environment and are just used to it. No, you aren't super good at it in terms of fighting, but you have somebody that's rarely or never done it beat by miles)
I think this sort of system would be more relevant. Your home world was a regimented, strict place? You get different skills from one where you lived in an environment where there were next to no laws.
You come from a low population planet? That'd affect the chances of you being exposed to many things regardless of tech level. On the other hand you'd have better coping skills when you are on your own and have to figure out stuff for yourself (like having a JOT 0 or 1 maybe).
The system needs to be based on the whole environment, not just one or two factors.
I'd add that as tech level rises and population rises a character should be given more "free" choices to go along with the set skill set. The reason for this is as TL goes up there's simply more stuff you can learn about. As population goes up there's more opportunity to do things just as there is in a big urban location versus a small rural town.
Then you modify that by government and law level. Someone that's coming from an oppressive dictatorship will have less opportunity than from an open and free society.
I'm reasonably certain 35 hours of flight instruction (plus 20 hours of structured simulation time) mean I should have pilot-0 (if not 1) in SEL; I was able to, in the sim, make a single engine night landing in a crosswind on the P-3 sims at MCAS Kanehoe. (The P-3 is MEL. Yes, they logged it in my logbook as a pass, even tho' the AC would have been unrecoverable - because I set it down without triggering an "everybody dies" kind of crash.)
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Mules and femules.
But you need to be careful with stuff like this. If your very-low-gravity homeworld had you spending enough time in minimal gravity for it to be second nature, should we also penalize your strength and endurance to reflect your low-G background?
Should there be potential negatives associated with your homeworld?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Just curious, might it be possible to break the discussion of how much space people require into a separate thread, as it really is not related to the original post, which covers Zero-Level skills?
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I subsume zero-G into Vacc Suit, they get Vacc Suit-0, and STR -1/DEX +1/END - 1.
High-G gets STR +2 /DEX -1.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
There's a documentary about tight quarters on American submarines during the Great Patriotic War, called Operation Petticoat.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmm, well obviously my approach is different.
Refer back to my list with the fixit/vehicle/social/enviornmental- just have to jigger it to fit the homeworld, and I'm not averse to choice.
Obviously the TL3- barbarian isn't going to get Air/Raft growing up, but Equestrian or Sailing Craft is in play. They likely don't have Streetwise, but would need either Hunting, Survival and/or Recon.
Similarly that barbarian is going to be doing physical work his whole life while not being part of a higher tech education- so perhaps STR +2/EDU -2.
The kid at the LL9 world will likely need Bribery Admin and/or Streetwise just to move around or do anything, while possibly not having the Gun-0 skill unless he goes into a military service or otherwise gets the skill during chargen. But Brawling-1 or Blade-1 may be in the cards.
For the zero-G situation, I'm assuming more a low-G like the Expanse's spinning asteroid interior, or alternating high-g/zero-G as part of being a spacer kid, hence the lack of extreme mods.
I disagree about the Vacc Suit, putting on a suit and getting around would be the most basic childhood thing, like not crossing the street before looking both ways.
The main point is to figure out a mix so the character is touched by where they are from so that is defining unique and logical, but not Doc Savage/Heinlein ubermen or crippled to uselessness.
Refer back to my list with the fixit/vehicle/social/enviornmental- just have to jigger it to fit the homeworld, and I'm not averse to choice.
Obviously the TL3- barbarian isn't going to get Air/Raft growing up, but Equestrian or Sailing Craft is in play. They likely don't have Streetwise, but would need either Hunting, Survival and/or Recon.
Similarly that barbarian is going to be doing physical work his whole life while not being part of a higher tech education- so perhaps STR +2/EDU -2.
The kid at the LL9 world will likely need Bribery Admin and/or Streetwise just to move around or do anything, while possibly not having the Gun-0 skill unless he goes into a military service or otherwise gets the skill during chargen. But Brawling-1 or Blade-1 may be in the cards.
For the zero-G situation, I'm assuming more a low-G like the Expanse's spinning asteroid interior, or alternating high-g/zero-G as part of being a spacer kid, hence the lack of extreme mods.
I disagree about the Vacc Suit, putting on a suit and getting around would be the most basic childhood thing, like not crossing the street before looking both ways.
The main point is to figure out a mix so the character is touched by where they are from so that is defining unique and logical, but not Doc Savage/Heinlein ubermen or crippled to uselessness.
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