Far Trader Hermitage

[kilmore]

How many hermits can convert a Far Trader into a deep space hermitage that they could live in indefinitely, or at least for a year at a time? How many staterooms for the chickens or other compact edible meat (and eggs), and how much feed would it require? Could they grow or otherwise manufacture the chicken feed on board, as well as their own veggies and whatnot? Or would it be more worthwhile to have annual supply runs?

I am assuming that there would be no problem at all in running the ship on less than half a tank of fuel, keeping the other half for a Jump-1 if the neighbors get nosy.

 

[Enoki]

Each person requires about 2 kilograms of food and 8 liters of water a day (give or take) to survive and thrive. I think National Geographic did an article some months ago on the amount of energy, food, and water raising food and livestock takes. You could probably figure it out from there.

 

[Icosahedron]

I'm not so sure about 'deep space' if you mean 'empty hex'.
I think you'd be more likely to site your hermitage near a star and deploy a solar array. You'd probably still need supplies (probably more than one a year) for the life-support, etc, but these could be shipped in by visiting traders, who would probably also bring raw materials that you convert into holy books, wine, mail bags, or whatever it is you do to earn your living.

I'm guessing, but I'd run with at least 3-5 (and maybe up to 10) times the normal stateroom requirement for permanent living, to allow for livestock, hydroponics, etc. Those cows take up an awful lot of space, like K'kree, and I imagine you'll need more space for food crops than you need for the cash crops you grow in your attic.

 

[kilmore]

I would think that cows might be a little high on the hog for efficiency in this sort of situation. I was thinking chickens and other birds. I'd figured that they would convert some of the cargo bay and maybe one or two staterooms into a victory garden, and keep the chickens in a stateroom.

 

[aramis]

The rough biomass rate is 10:1 at Us to herbivore, and herbivorelant; actually, half our food is plant... most of the cargo hold should do quite nicely.

Water won't be much of an issue; 2 Td would be a sufficient reserve post-recycler for most uses.

I dare say 100Td of cargo space converted to medium-efficiency long term life support should do it.

7,200,000cf was barely enough for 8 humans, by the way, at TL 7.5, some 14KTd... 1800Td per person. But that was laid out as a high cieling greenhouse; it was 12,700sq m, which lays out as 2822 Td for all 8; 352Td per person. That could, howver, be cut to 1/3 that by racking small plants and using small animals, and 1m rack height instead of 3m (or the mean of about 6m of the original).

If I recall correctly, it's about 20Td per person for the high efficiency long-term life support... but note that I don't have access to my FF&S 2 to check the canonical LTLS rules.

As for power... the minimum efficient PP is 1Td; it burns (in CT/MT/MGT) 1Td per month. So the Far Trader's 40Td is 40 weeks - not quite a year - of jump fuel. Add another 20Td in the bay, and you've got a year's worth.

 

[Gray Pennell]

I would also think they would go vegetarian. It cheaper in both space and energy. They would make an interesting encounter for K'Kree hmmm or should that be mmmm. I would also go for a bigger ship maybe the 300tons.

 

[aramis]

I would also think they would go vegetarian. It cheaper in both space and energy. They would make an interesting encounter for K'Kree hmmm or should that be mmmm. I would also go for a bigger ship maybe the 300tons.

If of a stock that can do so - not everyone has the genes to synthesize all the needed fats and proteins normally ingested via meats. Also, a few of them are about as efficiently obtained from herbivorous amphibians and/or crustaceans added to trim the plants used in long-term life support as from our own synthesis. You need to balance the system from excess, and it's a win-win, in terms of dietary and long-term biosphere sustainability.

We are, after all, biologically omnivores - we are not efficient at synthesis of certain proteins because we can routinely obtain them from insects, crustaceans, and/or fish, if not red meats.

And it's not just ethnic stocks - I know a chap who was unable to synthesize a particular protein needed to build muscle on a vegetarian diet. After 6 months of an injury to his leg slowly languishing, he was ordered to return to eating meats; 3 weeks later, he was as good as new. He still eats very little meat, but he knows now he must have some.

 

[aramis]

I would think that cows might be a little high on the hog for efficiency in this sort of situation. I was thinking chickens and other birds. I'd figured that they would convert some of the cargo bay and maybe one or two staterooms into a victory garden, and keep the chickens in a stateroom.

More likely shrimp, beetles, and hamsters. Shrimp are excellent in the long-term aquatic life support cycle.

 

[BlackBat242]

I was thinking rabbits... I have friends who raise them for food, there are two "lapin" in my freezer right now.

 

[dean]

Cold berths make great storage for livestock if you want to have something in reserve as well. And if it/they, er, "fail" their revival roll, you still have Fresh Meat.

Mmmmm. Bacon.

 

[kilmore]

Excellent replies Aramis. Thanky.

Bounty hunting PC's are going to be going after somebody hiding out in a situation like this.

 

[Thuffer]

Aquaculture

Aquaculture will usually yield the highest volume of vittles per your square footage. Think rice paddies with shrimp, snails and fish. Throw in a healthy dose of blue green algea at the bottom of the food chain and some other animals at the top like ducks and nutria and you've got variety for your protein. Mostly though you'll be eating rice though

 

[rancke]

As for power... the minimum efficient PP is 1Td; it burns (in CT/MT/MGT) 1Td per month. So the Far Trader's 40Td is 40 weeks - not quite a year - of jump fuel. Add another 20Td in the bay, and you've got a year's worth.

A TL15 portable fusion generator has a volume of 145 liters. It produces 100kw for 5.33 liters of fuel per day. I have no idea how that compares to what is needed for life support alone, but if the starship power plant doesn't come with a setting that only provides for life support (which would, of course, be a really, really bad design), then one should be able to buy a small fusion power plant of the appropriate size that can take over.

Unless one feels obliged to allow a set of what is for all practical purposes simple wargames rules to override realism.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Excellent replies Aramis. Thanky.

Bounty hunting PC's are going to be going after somebody hiding out in a situation like this.

Only possible way they have a snowball's chance in a sun of doing that is if the hermit was stupid enough (or had a really compelling reason to) to leave behind a record of his coordinates. If he gets into his ship and decides on his destination after he leaves the starport, he's for all practical purposes impossible to locate. The odds against finding him by searching for him are literally astronomical.


Hans

 

[robject]

7,200,000cf was barely enough for 8 humans, by the way, at TL 7.5, some 14KTd... 1800Td per person. But that was laid out as a high cieling greenhouse; it was 12,700sq m, which lays out as 2822 Td for all 8; 352Td per person. That could, howver, be cut to 1/3 that by racking small plants and using small animals, and 1m rack height instead of 3m (or the mean of about 6m of the original).

I visited Biosphere 2 awhile back; it looked pretty awesome, despite its difficulties. It was indeed a very high-ceilinged greenhouse, but also with an extensive 'pulmonary' system with two huge external "lungs" that helped manage air pressure, and a salt-water mini-sea in one of the living biomes.

As for power, a small Fusion-plus unit can operate for a year before requiring maintenance. And I'd prefer also having photovoltaics handy. Using the power plant sounds like overkill in this case!

And if one had to, I suppose a hermit could survive for months on Dehydrated Supplemented Instant Yeast Feasts. Ugh.

 

[CosmicGamer]

You could start research with B2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2 but keep in mind this is today without far future tech and trial and error via mars colonies, long range space missions prior to cold berths and such.

 

[DangerousThing]

More likely shrimp, beetles, and hamsters. Shrimp are excellent in the long-term aquatic life support cycle.

I'd replace hampsters with guine pigs. I think it would be easier to debone them.

 

[Carlobrand]

If of a stock that can do so - not everyone has the genes to synthesize all the needed fats and proteins normally ingested via meats. Also, a few of them are about as efficiently obtained from herbivorous amphibians and/or crustaceans added to trim the plants used in long-term life support as from our own synthesis. You need to balance the system from excess, and it's a win-win, in terms of dietary and long-term biosphere sustainability.

We are, after all, biologically omnivores - we are not efficient at synthesis of certain proteins because we can routinely obtain them from insects, crustaceans, and/or fish, if not red meats.

And it's not just ethnic stocks - I know a chap who was unable to synthesize a particular protein needed to build muscle on a vegetarian diet. After 6 months of an injury to his leg slowly languishing, he was ordered to return to eating meats; 3 weeks later, he was as good as new. He still eats very little meat, but he knows now he must have some.

Depends on what these hermits are doing, and what tech's been doing. Strikes me that the K'Kree, in company with like-minded omnivore subjects, would be working on genetically-engineered plant variants that provided the necessary proteins. Those might be available to your hermits. Then again, Gregor Mendel, who first came up with ideas about dominant and recessive traits, was an Augustine friar. Maybe these hermits are experimenting with just such issues, genetically engineering species to create plants that can better meet dietary needs in a setting that eliminates the potential to endanger other people or other habitats.

 

[aramis]

A TL15 portable fusion generator has a volume of 145 liters. It produces 100kw for 5.33 liters of fuel per day. I have no idea how that compares to what is needed for life support alone, but if the starship power plant doesn't come with a setting that only provides for life support (which would, of course, be a really, really bad design), then one should be able to buy a small fusion power plant of the appropriate size that can take over.

Unless one feels obliged to allow a set of what is for all practical purposes simple wargames rules to override realism.


Hans

Hans, no competent and sane starship designer is going to put in an extra 1/10 ton plant that produces 1/30 the power of a 1 ton plant... and the 1 ton plant, given the efficiencies used across CT/MT/TNE/T4/T20 for fusion, is the ideal cell size for the engineering department, because no larger efficiency is offered, and thus it's the best size for each cell.

And that 5L a day is clearly NOT a CT/T20/MGT compatible rate. All of which use their own volume per month - 1Td/month. TNE and T4, it's their own volume per year IIRC. MT is not quite double CT rates (TL15 14KL plant uses 14KL per 200 hours... about 1.2x the CT fuel rates).

The gravitics alone require, per MT (and thus per FF&S, which retained the MT rates) requires 112MW for a 160Td area (a far trader less it's 40Td Jump Fuel).

And, given that that "wargame," as you slander it, happens to also be the default design system for the RPG... yes, I'll take it over you any day.

 

[rancke]

Hans, no competent and sane starship designer is going to put in an extra 1/10 ton plant that produces 1/30 the power of a 1 ton plant...

If the 1T power plant really do guzzle its own volume in fuel per month to produce those 30 times as much, a competent starship designer might prefer to use a smaller power plant that was less of a fuel hog to produce that 1/30 power (or 2/10 to produce 2/30 depending on how much power is needed for life support). Indeed, he might even prefer a 1T power plant that only produced 1/3 the power if only the fuel consumption is sufficiently less.

...and the 1 ton plant, given the efficiencies used across CT/MT/TNE/T4/T20 for fusion, is the ideal cell size for the engineering department, because no larger efficiency is offered, and thus it's the best size for each cell.

You may be right. As I said, I don't know how much power life support alone requires. Since (according to CT) you can use every energy point produced to run the maneuver drive and the weapons and the computer 24/7 and still run the life support on top of that, it could be argued that you don't need anything at all to run life support.

And, yes, I know about the rule that says running the power plant at level one is the minimum possible, but since you can use every energy point produced and still run life support on top, that isn't much help in determining how much for life support alone (nor does it explain why you have to run the power plant at level 1 at a minimum).

And that 5L a day is clearly NOT a CT/T20/MGT compatible rate.

Clearly not. And that's just exactly the problem with CT/T20/MGT power plant fuel rates.

All of which use their own volume per month - 1Td/month. TNE and T4, it's their own volume per year IIRC. MT is not quite double CT rates (TL15 14KL plant uses 14KL per 200 hours... about 1.2x the CT fuel rates).

The gravitics alone require, per MT (and thus per FF&S, which retained the MT rates) requires 112MW for a 160Td area (a far trader less it's 40Td Jump Fuel).

So the 1/10 sized fusion generator would only cover the gravitics. What else? Could a fusion plant twice as big cover all that's needed?

And, given that that "wargame," as you slander it, happens to also be the default design system for the RPG... yes, I'll take it over you any day.

You think 'wargame' is derogatory? I don't. I can enjoy a good wargame. I just don't think the wargames aspects of the RPG are realistic. So taking it over me isn't the point. The point is that you're taking it over realism.


Hans