That was the primary idea behind Stanislaw Lem’s Cyberiad, and a few Ijon Tichy adventures.
Fermi Paradox
- Thread starter Timerover51
- Start date
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The Cylons didn't.
Unless they're approaching K1, we're unlikely to pick them up, period, by any method other than atmospheric compositions.
gross oversimplification of the math, but a good 1st order approximation...
Currently, our best scopes have trouble with 120 AU 0.25W - Inverse Square law. Our biggest commercial radio is 25 MW...100,000,000 times the power, so around 10,000× the range. so 1.2 1,200,000 AU, or 18.97 LY.
If we posit that V1 and V2 are only at 0.15 W, and the 150 AU value of cutoff from their estimates, it's still under 30 LY, around the average separation of stars in the F, G, and K types
If we accept only FGK as likely star types, they're simply a tiny increase in radio static.
Further, the biggest wattage broadcasters are not unique on channel... so interference is going to render the data unrecoverable. Noise. Louder than normal static.
It's not that they're not out there, it's that none of them are close enough to pick up with reasonable radio assumptions, and even if we do, most of the detections will be simply louder noise than usual.
It's entirely possible that a significant fraction of the background radio might actually life all over the place watching broadcast TV.
As for watching I Love Lucy? Proxima is probably too far out to get a good signal.
"As for watching I Love Lucy? Proxima is probably too far out to get a good signal."
They just need to adjust the rabbit ears a little bit.
They just need to adjust the rabbit ears a little bit.
I am NOT amused. I've always hated posts like that. Serious D-move there. Disrespects me and the OP. And anyone else wanting this to be a serious discussion."As for watching I Love Lucy? Proxima is probably too far out to get a good signal."
They just need to adjust the rabbit ears a little bit.
On a more realistic note, NOTHING ON TV is going to be decipherable, since the 50-some channels are all 3-5 signals per hemisphere, or more.
A quick look on wikipedia lists 45 or so stations on US channel 2 alone...
If they aren't in perfect phase (and they will NOT be in phase), it's going to be snow. No inteligible data .
Plus, being 1/1000 to 1/400 the maximum signal, that's 1/31.6 × the range to 1/20 the range. Either way, Alpha C C (Proxima's other name) ain't getting TV from earth in any meaningful way, tho if there are radio equipped folk, they are close enough that they might pick us up as a directional anomaly of stronger than normal background noise across our licensed radio spectra...
The Arecibo Message will only get received if someone has FTL... because it's target is 25 kLY away, and it was aimed for its "current location" – and nothing is expected to cross the beam... and 25 kLY is about 100× further than it's likely to be detectible. It was, simply put, a publicity stunt. And a waste of electrical power.
More likely to get broadcasts from stations like KFI-640 AM in Los Angeles. It's one of the, for lack of a better term, "Civi Defense" stations given a dedicated frequency by the FCC (there is no other legal 640 station in the United States), plus its one of the highest power stations (50,000 watts). The premise is by having a dedicated frequency, it could be a good conduit for information in case of national emergency.
I don't know what the other stations are in the US, I would imagine there's one out of New York, and maybe two others in the mid west/south of the US.
Thankfully, AM is very easy to decipher.
A list of 50,000 watt stations.
List of 50 kW AM radio stations in the United States - Wikipedia
And are only going to be readable to about 3.1 LY... because the largest signal was what I used, 25 MW, MegaWatts.. and you're pointing out a non-singular, 25 kW (killowatt) signal...
We just don't put out enough single frequency
And no, KFI is NOT the only station on 640 kHz... KYUK (Bethel AK) I occasionally picked up while north of the Alaska Range. 18 on 640kHz in the US Alone.
a 20 sec google to find a bunch. a minute or two to see which were current.
there are three worldwide unused frequencies: 121.5 MHz, 243.0 MHz, and 1420 MHz. the first two are ELT/EPIRB, kept clear by treaty; the third is kept clear due to radio-astronomy.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
There are always the "Border blaster" stations from the 70's on...A list of 50,000 watt stations.
List of 50 kW AM radio stations in the United States - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Border blaster - Wikipedia
Border blasters: The outlaw stations that changed radio
From quack doctors to the first country music broadcasts, high-powered Mexican radio stations brought the U.S. into the age of mass culture.
mexiconewsdaily.com
50,000 watts? Try 500,000 WATTS!
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Yep. Way back in high school in another century, I used to listen to XROCK 80 out of Juarez next to El Paso, like 800 miles away once the sun set.
Likely they are out there, however time and distance create a gulf that might be uncrossable. This is one of the things Clarke wrote about in the book of 2001.
XTRA (edit, fixed)
91-X (FM, probably only 50KW -- edit: 100KW), nominally out of San Diego occasionally punched up to Los Angeles, particularly on south-facing shorelines. Staticky, but you could make it out. Still can.
But then, we had KROQ 106.7 (Pasadena/Los Angeles) so it didn't matter that much.
Edit: correction -- X96 is out of Salt Lake City. Listened to it a lot too.
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casquilho
SOC-13
The old KROQ (not the new corporate fake KROQ) and KMET were the radio of my youth for sure. So many nights listening to Rodney on the ROQ.XTRA (FM, probably only 50KW), nominally out of San Diego occasionally punched up to Los Angeles, particularly on south-facing shorelines. Staticky, but you could make it out. Still can.
But then, we had KROQ 106.7 (Pasadena/Los Angeles) so it didn't matter that much.
The memories......
Indeed. Indeed.
KROQ does broadcast 80s programming on their digital sub-channel (also available streaming). It's not quite the same, though...
And, from past orbit, all those stations encounter frequency interference. The loudest is still audible, but often garbled...
And, as the distance increases, the less discernable and the less benefit is gained from directionality in terms of avoiding signal interference.
And, as the distance increases, the less discernable and the less benefit is gained from directionality in terms of avoiding signal interference.
MichaelSTee
SOC-12
SiriusXM channel 33.
casquilho
SOC-13
I reject your sound logic and valid science. Rather, I like the setting where we find an alien planet where Disco is considered the songs from the gods and Donna Summer is the godess of love....
Sorry Aramis, I have to be silly once in a while or my head explodes.
If we were to receive a message today, what are the chances that the civilization that sent it would still be around.
