Filling Out the Spinal Tables

[cmdrx]

I don't know if this has been done before, but I figured what the hey.

I decided that there are gaps in the classic spinal tables. I was thinking that a Spinal gun that was introduced at one tech level should be available at a higher tech level but be smaller cheaper, etc...

I've had some time over the holiday and worked on figuring out how the Spinal Tables were done. Meson guns seemed the easiest since it appears to be linear and I can just interpolate between values. Particle Beam spinals look more logorithmic and were not as spread out across tons. What I did was use numerical values for the "Types" (A=10, etc...) and interpolated between the tonnage levels. All values were rounded down and this is why some TL do not have the entire range available to them. They just would not be significantly different. Also, no spinal can be below Type A(10) or less than 1000dt. These stats are of course for CT/MT and T20.

Example. TL 11 Meson Spinals.
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type dt Mcr EP
10 5000 10000 500
10.3 6000 10666 533 <--- No better than a Type A
10.6 7000 11333 566 <--- Ditto
11 8000 12000 600</pre>[/QUOTE]</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Meson Spinals by Tech Level
Type dt Mcr EP
TL11
A 5000 10000 500
B 8000 12000 600

TL12
A 1000 2000 500
C 2000 3000 600
D 5000 5000 700
F 6000 7000 800
H 7000 9000 900
K 8000 10000 1000

TL13
E 1000 800 700
F 2000 1000 800
G 3000 1666 866
J 4000 2333 933
L 5000 3000 1000
M 6000 3666 1033
N 7000 4333 1066
P 8000 5000 1100

TL14
G 1000 400 800
H 2000 600 900
K 3000 700 950
M 4000 800 1000
N 5000 866 1033
P 6000 933 1066
Q 7000 1000 1100
R 8000 1500 1200

TL15
J 1000 400 900
N 2000 600 1000
P 3000 666 1033
Q 4000 733 1066
R 5000 800 1100
S 6000 900 1150
T 7000 1000 1200

TL16
L 1000 100 700
P 2000 200 800
Q 3000 400 900
R 4000 600 1000
S 5000 800 1100
T 6000 1000 1200
U 8000 2000 1300</pre>[/QUOTE]I am still working out the PAW tables. Like I said, its a bit more complex than the meson table.

 

[mike wightman]

I've posted a couple of things about this in the past but nothing as complete as this. Well done

.

I did the same thing because I wanted spinal mounts for High Guard and T20 to match the ship designs in TNE and T4. So one of the things I did was to extrapolate spinal mounts with a tonnage less than 1000t. After all isn't a TL11 A meson (5000t) built at TL15 going to be less than 1000t, which is the same tonnage as a J meson?
I looked at the EP to tonnage progression.

Why did you decide on a minimum tonnage of 1000t for meson spinal mounts?

I also agree that the PAWs are more difficult, and isn't it odd that the smallest meson SM is 1000t but the smallest PAW is 2500t?
Anyway I'll be interested to see your completed PAWs tables, please post them soon.

 

[cmdrx]

Here is what I came up with for the PAW spinals. Lots of guesswork. The curve for these looked like an upside-down "J". As I suspected, logorithmic instead of linear. If you look at the chart, you will see the pattern Marc used and even though it looks simple, it was hard to figure the other values without a graph. I love excell!
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Particle Accelerator Spinals

dt Mcr EP
TL8
A 5500 3500 500

TL9
B 5000 3000 500
H 5500 4000 800

TL10
C 4500 2400 500
J 5000 3000 800
N 5500 3600 1000

TL11
D 4000 1500 600
K 4500 2000 800
P 5000 2500 1000
R 5500 3000 1200

TL12
E 3500 1200 600
L 4000 1600 800
Q 4500 2000 1000
S 5000 2400 1100
T 5500 2800 1200

TL13
F 3000 900 600
M 3500 1200 900
R 4000 1500 1000
T 4500 1800 1100
U 5000 2100 1200

TL14
G 2500 800 700
N 3000 1000 900
S 3500 1200 1000
U 4000 1400 1100
V 4500 1600 1200

TL15
A 1500 300 500
H 2000 500 700
P 2500 800 900
T 3000 1000 1000
V 3500 1200 1100
W 4000 1500 1200

TL16
B 1000 400 500
J 1500 600 700
Q 2000 800 900
U 2500 1000 1100
W 3000 1200 1200
X 3500 1400 1300
</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[mike wightman]

Very nice

.

How come you decided to go below the minimum PAWs size of 2500t but didn't reduce the size of meson SMs?

 

[cmdrx]

How come you decided to go below the minimum PAWs size of 2500t but didn't reduce the size of meson SMs?

Actualy, if you go by MegaTraveller chart PAW spinals do go down to 1000dt at very high TL. And if you can get a Y or Z gun that small at TL18&19, why not a Type A earlier at that size?

I picked 1000dt as the minimum because it seemed right for a spinal. Under that, they are just huge bays and consequently can be under USP10(A). This will be of import to the T20 rules system as all Spinals do 16 dice. The USP is only a bonus to hit. In HG it's a bit different. Some bays in MT actualy go higher than USP10 that the rule for "apply +6 to damage table roll" had to be changed to "if weapon is a spinal, +6"

That will be my next project then. The bridge between spinals and bay weapons, between 100-1000dt I have already been playing with 250dt bays in FF&S and GURPS and converting them to CT/T20.

 

[The Oz]

This looks to be very fine work, CmdrX. I will print your stuff out (I tend to work better with printed stuff, for some reason) and give it some checks and trials. But I like it.

I look forward to seeing what you do with bay weapons. One possible guideline might be the way the meson gun and PAW hit and penetrate numbers jump from factor-9 batteries to factor-A batteries.

 

[Theophilus]

You lost me some where? Under the original CT high guard system higher letter codes indicate more damage is done.

""Particle Accelerator Spinals""

dt Mcr EP
TL8
A 5500 3500 500

TL9
B 5000 3000 500
H 5500 4000 800

TL10
C 4500 2400 500
J 5000 3000 800
N 5500 3600 1000
?? Originally PA-N is a TL 14 system. Are you now allowing A TL 10 PA-N, doing 13 extra hits and critical damage on ships under 30 kton???
TL11
D 4000 1500 600
K 4500 2000 800
?? Ditto ditto TL 11 P and R??
P 5000 2500 1000
R 5500 3000 1200

TL12
E 3500 1200 600
L 4000 1600 800
Q 4500 2000 1000
S 5000 2400 1100
T 5500 2800 1200
?? Factor T at TL 12???
TL13
F 3000 900 600
M 3500 1200 900
R 4000 1500 1000
T 4500 1800 1100
U 5000 2100 1200

TL14
G 2500 800 700
N 3000 1000 900
S 3500 1200 1000
U 4000 1400 1100
V 4500 1600 1200

TL15
A 1500 300 500
H 2000 500 700
P 2500 800 900
T 3000 1000 1000
V 3500 1200 1100
W 4000 1500 1200

TL16
B 1000 400 500
J 1500 600 700
Q 2000 800 900
U 2500 1000 1100
W 3000 1200 1200
X 3500 1400 1300


Same with the Meson guns, TL 12 Gets H and F from the tl 14/13 weapons with larger "size"

Could you write it up in an integrated chart, both the original values and your add on?

 

[Theophilus]

Originally posted by cmdrx:
[QB] I don't know if this has been done before, but I figured what the hey.

I decided that there are gaps in the classic spinal tables. I was thinking that a Spinal gun that was introduced at one tech level should be available at a higher tech level but be smaller cheaper, etc...[QB]

When I read this I picture some thing like

USP Tonnage TL
A 5500 8
A 4500 9
A 3500 10
B 5000 9
B 4000 10

That is The same gun, small and cheaper at higher TL. What you posted, USP T Paws, a TL 15 weapon, now available at TL 12.

 

[aramis]

I concurr that there should be

A TL 8
A TL 9
A TL 10
B TL 8
B TL 9
B TL 10
Z TL 8 (Monsterbig)
Z TL 9
etc

All the types, by sizee, until they hit minimum size.

Also missing are three ton missile and laser turrets (USP +1 over the 1T) and barbettes (+2 USP).

Sounds like a decent idea for a TA supplemment. Adding all the missing weapons, taking all the weapons tables to TL 22, adding disintigrators, and the missing small crafft materials from HG and TCS. And then adding a bunnch of "Design Families" at TL's 8-F, maybe higher.

 

[cmdrx]

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing here. At lower tech levels you get some equivalent ratings for spinals that were 'introduced' at higher TL, but are much more massive and expensive at that lower TL. For ease of confusion, the type name of the spinal could be like 'Type T-12 Meson' or 'Type B-9 PAW'.

I like the idea that each TL should have ratings A-Z. The way the charts work however your going to have some odd sizes (3333dt?)

Heres the chart I drew up in excell. Original values from CT&MT in parenthesis.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Spinal Chart w/ Numerical Values (10=A, 11=B, etc...)

Meson Spinals
1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 TL
(10) 10.3 10.6 (11) 11
10.5 (12) 12.3 12.6 (13) 15 17 (19) 12
(14) (15) 16.7 18.4 (20) 21 22 (23) 13
(16) (17) 19 (21) 22 23 (24) (26) 14
(18) (22) 23 24 (25) 26 (27) 27.5 15
20 23 24 25 26 27 27.5 (28) 16
23 24 25 26 27 28 (29) (31) 17
(30) 31 (32) 33 18

PAW Spinals
1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 TL
(10) 8
(11) 17 9
(12) (18) 22 10
(13) (19) 23 25 11
(14) (20) (24) 26 27 12
(15) (21) (25) 27 28 13
(16) (22) (26) 28 29 14
(17) (23) (27) 29 30 15
18 24 (28) 30 31 16
19 25 (29) (31) 32 17 </pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Dom]

Originally posted by cmdrx:
I don't know if this has been done before, but I figured what the hey.

I decided that there are gaps in the classic spinal tables. I was thinking that a Spinal gun that was introduced at one tech level should be available at a higher tech level but be smaller cheaper, etc...

I've had some time over the holiday and worked on figuring out how the Spinal Tables were done. Meson guns seemed the easiest since it appears to be linear and I can just interpolate between values. Particle Beam spinals look more logorithmic and were not as spread out across tons. What I did was use numerical values for the "Types" (A=10, etc...) and interpolated between the tonnage levels. All values were rounded down and this is why some TL do not have the entire range available to them. They just would not be significantly different. Also, no spinal can be below Type A(10) or less than 1000dt. These stats are of course for CT/MT and T20.

I don't know if you've been on the ct-starships YahooGroup, but the files on the group have HG conversions from MT which includes white globes, disintegrator spinals etc. Basically extends HG to TL21.

 

[cmdrx]

Yes, I've got all the text files from that group about MT to HG coversions and thats what Ihave been using to extend the chart.

Althought not from MT, the meson barbettes/turrets were my contribution. I happened to have converted them over from GURPS at the same time those files were being worked on.

 

[aramis]

Odd sizes are cool. Personally, I think the narrow range available at a given TL was a major problem with HG (and thus MT and T20) ship designs for larger ships.

 

[Theophilus]

Of course, have you considered the size limits on lower tech ships? A TL 10 ship is limited to 49,999 tons, USP code N. Under the HG system TL 10 has a maximum PA of J. IF you allow P+ ratings on the spinal mounts you get auto crits.
PLUS, A 5000 tons spinal mount is over 10% of the ships maximum size!

Same with TL 11, size maxes out at 99,999 tons. USP Q.