Firefly

[N.I.C.E. Labs]

Well, it's obvious now that Lucas is insane. Back then I think he was lucid enough to get it right...Remember that the parts about Solo being a military academy grad and the kessel run obstacles were added by the contributing novelists AFTER the movies...when the 'based on' books and games started showing up. My point is, that may be how it's explained now, but not originally. Forgive me...I'm a big fan of continuity.

At any rate, this is a posting about Firefly so I'm going to get back on track

The show is totally cool

Here's another thing that's totally cool about it...at least indirectly so. The best Traveller GM I know, my old Traveller GM, hasn't RPed since he sold his game company (Rapport games...they made "Morpheus" and "Attack of the Humans") to Crunchy Frog and he hasn't ran Traveller since before then...perhaps fifteen years all told. Anyway, he enjoyed Firefly so much and how much it looked and felt like Traveller that we're making characters so he can run Traveller again!

Wheeeee!!!

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
The more I see this show I'm thinking MegaTraveller "Hard Times", maybe somewhere in the Zarushagar, Diaspora, or Dagudashag sectors. Things are starting to fall apart, but there's still some control by one of the factions or the oher. The Alliance could be Lucans or Dulinor. It doesn't work exactly, but it's close enough to work up a scenario for.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I liked tonights episode better.

My first thought was, "Second episode, derelect ship. Oh, no, Lost in Space did that on it's second episode, too."

It turned out much better than that, though.

 

[Bruce]

That engineer is really cute...she is just so cute you could eat her up! hehehe

like a piece of cheesecake!

I liked tonight ep, it was good. No ghosts, no weird things.

But my question is...how much did that Alliance ship displace??? I noted it was a disperswed structure...

Bruce
The Curtain behind the Man

 

[siefertma]

Originally posted by Bruce:
That engineer is really cute...she is just so cute you could eat her up! hehehe

like a piece of cheesecake!

Mmmmmm Yeah!

She's the "Willow" of this Joss Whedon series.

Forget blondes. This gentlemen prefers red-heads and brunettes.

Later,
Mark A. Siefert

Later,
Mark A. Siefert

 

[phydaux]

Originally posted by T. Foster:
I dunno folks. I taped last night's episode and I gotta say the cheese was dripping off pretty thickly.

I've got to go with T.F. on this one. The first episode of Fire Fly STUNK! It wasn't just cheese, it was high, stinking Limburger!

Whoever said it earlier in the thread was right, there are too many characters. And what about that dialoge?

"What are you doing?"

"Oh, crime."

What the hell is that? And it crime THAT easy where they are, that people who have never stolen anything can pull off a major hist under the nose of a bunch or armed guards?

And before anyone says it, "Willing suspention of disbelief" does not make up for bad writing.

Now, to be fair, ST:TNG stunk it's first season too. It cleaned up nicely once they killed off a few of the bridge crew, Riker grew a beard and the writers realised there were really only 3 characters anyone gave a damn about.

I just hope these writers realise you can't be gritty AND campy. It just doesn't work.

 

[mshoen]

I finally got to see Firefly last night. I'm kicking myself for missing the premiere. The one thing that struck me with pleasant surprise was that all the space scenes were SILENT! No loud explosions or rumbling drives just silence. That is a refreshing change.

The twangy banjo-guitar soundtrack bothered me a bit. I don't think it fits the atmosphere. Haunting music similar to the soundtracks of old Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns seems more appropriate. (High Plains Drifter comes to mind)

I look forward to watching the rest of the season.

Big Mike

 

[RabidVargr]

"oh crime" is about the exact responce you'd get out of my former game group in Minnesota.

I like firefly so far. The twangy banjo annoys me, but I'm sure a few season's down the road it'll change (hopefully). Anyways, most of my trav games have been kind of like an old west when I get around to thinking about it. Low law level, cause they're too far out for the govt to really get involved, low tech, ditto.

Only 3 shows I watch any more are FF, E-prise, and Law and order. (and touched by an angel when my wife makes me cuddle with her cause someone is dying again).

RV

 

[T. Foster]

I dunno folks. I taped last night's episode and I gotta say the cheese was dripping off pretty thickly. Umm, can you say "cameo by 'Matt the token gay guy' from Melrose Place?" I'll probably give it a couple more chances, and yeah making the space scenes silent was a great touch, but I'm beginning to harbor a suspicion that you guys might just be projecting your hopes for a good Travelleresque sci-fi series onto something (at least so far) distinctly mediocre. And what's the deal with the cowboy/Wild West motif? Am I missing something?

Much more promising IMO is 'Robbery Homicide Division' over on CBS at 10/9C. Produced by Michael Mann, starring Tom Sizemore. Great look, great soundtrack (Deltron 3030), great LA locations (real too -- not everyone in LA is white and lives in Beverly Hills!). If it doesn't choke on its own style (cf. Mann's own 'Miami Vice') this could turn out to be the best tv drama since CSI. Time to buy some more blank videotape!

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by T. Foster:
Umm, can you say "cameo by 'Matt the token gay guy' from Melrose Place?"'

Having never watched "Melrose Place" I missed this completely. Which character are you talking about, and what about once playing a gay character made him especialy cheesy?

I'm beginning to harbor a suspicion that you guys might just be projecting your hopes for a good Travelleresque sci-fi series onto something (at least so far) distinctly mediocre.

I think it suggests a lot of people are used to mediocre games. The Ref would have to work a lot harder to catch us than the Firefly crew.

And what's the deal with the cowboy/Wild West motif?

Making it into a western with spaceships is easier than creating a unique setting and mood and much easier to sell to TV execs.

Much more promising IMO is 'Robbery Homicide Division' over on CBS ... this could turn out to be the best tv drama since CSI.

The best TV drama since last year's hot show? This is supposed to impress me how? Crime shows are common enough and most are melodramas with a police theme rather than real mysteries. That makes them much easier to write but they bore me to tears.

 

[T. Foster]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Originally posted by T. Foster:
Umm, can you say "cameo by 'Matt the token gay guy' from Melrose Place?"'

Having never watched "Melrose Place" I missed this completely. Which character are you talking about, and what about once playing a gay character made him especialy cheesy?

Doug Savant, who played the captain of the Alliance patrol ship. And I forgot the obligatory "not that there's anything wrong with that..." It's not that he played the token gay guy that made me say he's cheesy, more that he was a regular on Melrose Place at all. MP was guilty fun and I watched it regularly for a couple seasons, but it was truly the quintessence of cheese -- and I'm afraid that IMO ALL of its regular cast have been permanently tainted (not that most of them ever show up anywhere but lame movies-of-the-week anyway).

Much more promising IMO is 'Robbery Homicide Division' over on CBS ... this could turn out to be the best tv drama since CSI.

The best TV drama since last year's hot show? This is supposed to impress me how? Crime shows are common enough and most are melodramas with a police theme rather than real mysteries. That makes them much easier to write but they bore me to tears.

Yeah, that CSI is so new does make my praise look silly, but 1) I really like CSI so I didn't want to snub it, and 2) until CSI there was a big gap in quality cop shows, IMO back to the first season of Homicide -- when it was still based on David Simon's brilliant nonfiction book, before they dipped into the melodrama well. As for mystery/procedural vs. melodrama, I couldn't agree more, and while one episode is way too few to judge by, I've got my hopes up that this show might actually stick close to the former (at least until it gets mediocre ratings and the network execs order the producers to include more "human interest" or be canceled).

 

[phydaux]

Originally posted by RabidVargr:
"oh crime" is about the exact responce you'd get out of my former game group in Minnesota.

But Rabid, and no offence intended toward you, your gaming group or the group's GM, most RPG sessions would NOT make a good TV show.

I've said for years now, there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that all sci-fi MUST suck. Firefly is no exception.

The Hollywood "in crowd" seems to belive that all a sci-fi TV show or movie needs is spaceships, blasters/lasers, a robot and a big-breasted chick painted blue and stuffed in a tinfoil bikini. Put those elements on film and schmucks will line up around the block to watch.

By praising Firefly we just affirm that misguided notion.

Sci-fi is a SETTING, just like a Western is a setting, or Cop/Mob is a setting. You still need sympathetic characters and a plot with reasonable conflicts and plausible resolutions to make a good story. NOT "Let's see how many clichés we can cram into a one hour program." Then you need good writing with decent dialog, not wooden, stilted foolishness.

Look at Red Dwarf. It was the bloddy Odd Couple! It just HAPPENED to be set on a spaceship. And it was great!

I just think by accepting low quality programming, we lower the bar for any future sci-fi we might get.

End rant.

 

[Secrect Cow Level]

Yeah!

 

[Gaming Glen]

I've said for years now, there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that all sci-fi MUST suck. Firefly is no exception.

The Hollywood "in crowd" seems to belive that all a sci-fi TV show or movie needs is spaceships, blasters/lasers, a robot and a big-breasted chick painted blue and stuffed in a tinfoil bikini. Put those elements on film and schmucks will line up around the block to watch.

Which color blue? I want to make sure I get the right shade. Are you sure it isn't aluminum foil? My girlfriend wants to audition.

Glen

 

[William]

Originally posted by phydaux:

Originally posted by T. Foster:

<rant>
I've gotta agree. I watched it on Friday and was utterly unimpressed. While there are a few good touches (space is silent, firearms rather than hokey energy weapons), they are outwieghed by the bad (cut off winchester? With that lever? Ick.) and truely hideous - one system with hundreds of terraformable worlds? Uh-huh. Perhaps if Yaskodray is in thier universe, but that's the only way. And all with a wild west fetish?

It would be nice if someone did do a Traveller style series, but this isn't it. Just license the Elite game universe if you want that. This is just another excuse for half nekkid chicks and buff hunks to try and score ratings in the teenybopper market for their advertisers.

As someone else pointed out, other shows have shaken out and gotten quite good. But I don't think any of them started this bad.
</rant>

Ah, much better now.

And no, I don't like Buffy either...

William

 

[siefertma2]

Originally posted by phydaux:

The Hollywood "in crowd" seems to belive that all a sci-fi TV show or movie needs is spaceships, blasters/lasers, a robot and a big-breasted chick painted blue and stuffed in a tinfoil bikini. Put those elements on film and schmucks will line up around the block to watch.

I don't know... If I read the sci-fi entertainment tea leaves correctly, the space opera sub-genre is considered "dead." (George Lucas, along with Berman and Braga KILLED IT!) The "hip" thing for sci-fi TV is now the X-Files rip-off where a maverick civil servant tries to uncover some implausible conspiracy usually involving aliens that look like a caricature of James Carvelle and have an with obsession for small New Mexico towns and proctology.

Either that, or another Twilight Zone-style anthology series where you can figure out the ironic ending within the first 5 minutes.

The problem is that Tinsel Town doesn't consider sci-fi to be a "serious" genre--that is if it isn't some disguised morality play that pontificates on some social issue ala Star Trek. Although it SF can be used for "message" stories, constant preaching not only gets boring but rather arrogant when the writers give their rather one-sided view on how future humanity is "supposed to be." That's what I love about Farscape and Firefly. No preaching, no morals, no utopian federations that somehow have overcome the laws of physics and economics. Just grit, blood, sweat, and tears. Real life, only with ray guns.

Since Hollywood politics has left Sci-Fi on the intellectual skid-row, you are not going to get the caliber of writers and actors that you would "mainstream" genres. Why should a up and coming actor or writer destroy their career on "geek bait" like sci-fi (thus, damning them to a lifetime of sci-fi convention appearances after their show tanks) when they could get the meaty gigs that will earn them respect and increase their prospects for bigger things? It's a vicious cycle to be sure and no one as of yet has yet convinced a studio head to break it.

As for Firefly, it's far from perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. They could have toned-down the "wild west" motif just a little. However, I think the basic idea (i.e. a diverse bunch of outcast "blue collar" space travelers, trying to find freedom and profit in a cruel , totalitarian galaxy.) is quite good and a great a fun.

Later,
Mark A. Siefert

 

[RabidVargr]

Originally posted by phydaux:
But Rabid, and no offence intended toward you, your gaming group or the group's GM, most RPG sessions would NOT make a good TV show.

Ohhhh, not interesting enuf, are we? Well buddy, you're probably right.

Sorry to say, think FireFly's the closest we're ever gonna get to a Trav tv show. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride and will bring crackers for ya'll.

RV

 

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert:
I don't know... If I read the sci-fi entertainment tea leaves correctly, the space opera sub-genre is considered "dead." (George Lucas, along with Berman and Braga KILLED IT!) The "hip" thing for sci-fi TV is now the X-Files rip-off where a maverick civil servant tries to uncover some implausible conspiracy usually involving aliens that look like a caricature of James Carvelle and have an with obsession for small New Mexico towns and proctology.

But dude, look once again at Red Dwarf. It's the all-time king of low budget, el cheapo sci-fi. But it was great because the "sci-fi" aspect took a HUGE backseat to Rimmer & Lister and their squables, tiffs and quips. It was the Odd Couple in space and it was great. There were never more that 4-5 characters at a time, and the character interaction drove the show. It just HAPPENED to be set on a spaceship.

sigh... I don't know why I even get my hopes up anymore. The unwritten rule always wins.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by phydaux:
But dude, look once again at Red Dwarf. It's the all-time king of low budget, el cheapo sci-fi. But it was great because the "sci-fi" aspect took a HUGE backseat to Rimmer & Lister and their squables, tiffs and quips. It was the Odd Couple in space and it was great. There were never more that 4-5 characters at a time, and the character interaction drove the show. It just HAPPENED to be set on a spaceship.

One of my Faves! What Sci-Fi that existed was either the mild for the episode type or somewhat based on some current theories (White Holes and time running backwards).

They even had some time travel episodes that IMHO worked or atleast quite amusing. My favorite was Lister trying to time travel in order to get a large indian takeout for food stock. They end up in Dallas Nov'63 and get messed up with the Kennedy assassination. The solution dealt with the grassy knoll! (Trust me it was good!)

In terms of Sci-Fi on TV. I like Enterprise, though this coming week's episode may decide if I will continue watching. Firefly seem pretty decent for now. Andromeda is quite good and fun to watch. I love Farscape, but the drag is the scheduling of the seasons. It's three monthes then nothing for four months for the end of the season.

 

[tim_manley]

Firefly is a "western in space" -- that's how it was billed and how it is written. It's a sci-fi redux of a post civil war genre.

The west theme is a *bit* over handed, I'll agree.

But, being both a lover of westerns AND sci-fi; I'll have to say that I do like it, albeit with suspended disbelief.

First off -- I LOVED the munching of the barbarian bad-guy and then moving on to talk to the next guy. When I saw the little "I'm going to hunt you" rant I thought "oh, God, not yet *another* one". And, when he kicked his but onto the engine I was lauging so hard I came off the couch. It was perfect, and played mostly into changing my mind about it.

Second -- I don't mind the guns too much. After having seen the second episode, and the little 'weapon' collection of Jayne it endeared me even more.

third -- I took the 85m mile thing in stride, crap said by a character, especially a toss away one, doesn't mean it's canon -- I mean, hell, you don't have a psycic's guys stepping into camera and saying "this is how the universe works" crap just gets spouted.

fourth -- cannibals in space? gimme a freakin' break......now, deranged mad-men ala hellraiser; yeah, that I can see. But, I don't think that's what they mean even though they alluded to it.

All in all, I give it a + score which means I'll make plans to watch it on Friday nights and hope it doesn't get worse.

OH, btw -- ST:TNG sucked stagnant dog water it's 1st episode. I sucked *so bad* that I had to fumigate my VCR and slap myself for even bothering to record it. It did get better though.....

anyone remember Space Rangers? That was what we thought was going to be TV Traveller....man were we wrong; about as wrong as a guy renting a hooker in a skirt that finds out the hooker's name is really Dave........

-- I don't mind the guns too much. After the