First Impressions from TNE

[mike wightman]

What do you think of the use of d15 at one point?

I agree with your bottom line/conclusion. I like the setting, but the rules are overly complex and different to aything that went before.

I wonder if a 3d6 mechanic could replace the d20?

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the TNE Skill System

Hmmm... All skills acquired during CharGen are somewhat limited by the character's homeworld... Interesting, and far more fitting to the TNE universe, with its sparse spaceflight, than to the consmopolitan and space-traffic-heavy Classic Era universe.

Vocational Skills (p.112). This is a very interesting discussion of skills being used for holding "regular" jobs rather than for adventuring, or for making some money "on the side". Note that TNE sees only skills such as Science, Fine Arts and History as vocational, to make them somewhat attractive when compared to "adventuring" skills such as weapon skills. Nonetheless, the discussion of finding and keeping jobs, as well as of salaries, is a very useful and interesting one.

The details of every skill are given in a very useful manner, in two paragraphs per skillindicating the in-game use of each of them. For example, Acrobatics could be used for jump and melee-combat evasions; Admin/Legal for functioning as a lawyer (rules are given for adapting to different planetary legal systems); Chemistry could be used to create substances (difficulties are given for several of them on p.117 - very useful!) and so on. Very handy and very well written.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
What do you think of the use of d15 at one point?

D15? I missed it. Is it a "Roll D10; roll another D10, but divide the result by 2 and round down; add the results together" mechanic? Seems over-complex.

I agree with your bottom line/conclusion. I like the setting, but the rules are overly complex and different to aything that went before.

Exactly. Good setting, excellent writing, great flavour text, but ubercomplex mechanics. If I'd ever use the TNE setting "as-is", I'll use (modified) CT rules for it.

I wonder if a 3d6 mechanic could replace the d20?

Slightly different statistics, but yes, it could probably wirk with a variant of the UGM using 3D6 instead of 2D6.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about TNE's Refereeing Traveller Chapter

This chapter opens with a very well written discussion about choosing the campaign's starting location to suit the Referee's and the Players' needs and desires.

This is followed by a discussion of various campaign types, varying by structure (i.e. metaplot-heavy vs. freeform) as well as the activities carried on in them (e.g. politics, ground combat, exploration, trade and so on), all with an example for the way in which these things are implemented in a "standard" RC campaign.

... it is
important to always remember why the rules are there... This is a roleplaying game, which means that its purpose is to allow you and your players to interact as different, imaginary people in an alternate imaginary world. Nothing else is really vital to the game.

(p.130)
I'm sorry to say that at several stages TNE's designers forgot this, and put the rules above the roleplaying...

In short, never forget who’s in charge here. The rules are not in charge

(p.131)
Again, the designers forgot this at times

This is followed by very detailed advice about describing scenes and locations to the players, and about creating and linking adventures, using one of the sample adventures as an example.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about TNE's Rewards and Experience System

The TNE experiemce system is quite simple: one Experience Point (sometimes more) is given per game session. During gameplay, each skill which is used is marked on the character sheet; only skills that saw use could be improved by Experience Points. Improving a skill requires a number of Experience Points equal to its new level (i.e. to improve a skill from 2 to 3 you'll need 3 Experience Points). The cost of learning a new skill in TNE is 1 Experience Point.

Skills could also be taught; instruction gives the students a number of Experience Points per week, to be applied to the skill being instructed in.

While Initiative may be improved by combat experience, I haven't seen any system for improving Attributes post-chargen.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about The Once and Future Emperor Adventure

As usual, the flavour-text is of the exceptional quality evident all over the TNE book; the description of the Auction is very good, as are the advice for playing the Patron. It seems that the advemture is intended for Referees new to roleplaying in general. Unfortunately, the TNE rules would be VERY difficult for a novice RPGer to learn and play.

When I say that TNE is full of massive amounts of excellently-written flavour-text I mean it literally: the adventure's "briefing" is two full pages of well-written in-character material, including interaction between several interesting NPCs. It even introduces the way a Hiver speaks!

Again, the description of the target world is very well-written, as well as numerous role-playing cues for the Referee for impersonating the PCs' main contact on the world.

The entire adventure is one of the better ones I've ever read in Traveller - well-written, suspenseful, and interesting for most kinds of players - containing both combat, exploration/research, tons of role-playing opportunities, and even several good riddles!

The twist at the end is quite surprising - and very entertaining - finding out who that "God" really is. Reminds me of the Wizard of Oz in some ways

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Comments about TNE's Rewards and Experience System


While Initiative may be improved by combat experience, I haven't seen any system for improving Attributes post-chargen.

My impression was that that was deliberate, especially since they could only normally increase by 2 during chargen anyway.

The closest thing to it is the "Physical Development Program" to help with the aging rolls.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the Idol Dreams Adventure

The premise behind this adventure is interesting: the PCs are a group of "barbarians" from a world ruled by a "God"-strain Virus who discover what their "God" really is and escape intact with a starship to boot (one PC is assumed to be a "priest" with several ship-related skills).

The NPC called Delenn Furlon is undoubtedly a reference to the Babylon 5 character Delenn, played by Mira Furlon (sp?). However, the thing is that this NPC is male, while the Babylon 5 character with that name was female (but, according to JMS' original plans, was supposed to start as a male and then crysallis-ise into a female).

The description of the burned-down Startown with all the gang activity in it and in the Starport proper reminds me of something out of the Fallout computer games or from Mad Max movies - it has a classical post-apocalyptic feel to it.

The space station is also a very interesting adventuring setting.

Again, this is a very good sci-fi plot and a very well-written adventure to appeal to varied player tastes. Contrary to my previous belief TNE DOES inspire a sense of wonder in these two adventures - the locations, situations and characters described in them are varied, interesting, and inviting to investigation.

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
[qb] What do you think of the use of d15 at one point?

D15? I missed it. Is it a "Roll D10; roll another D10, but divide the result by 2 and round down; add the results together" mechanic? Seems over-complex.
</font>[/QUOTE]No. Roll 1d20, rerolling 16-19, 20 reads as 0. Or just use a d16-1. (I've had commercial D16's for years)

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the Alternate Settings Chapter

Ah, the Spinward Marches! And virtually untouched by the Collapse! seems like the designers wanted to leave an open option for these Players and Referees who desire to run a CT-era-style campaign in the Marches, with a quasi-Imperial polity (the Regency) and a relatively high level of civilization.

The regency government is essentially a bi-camerial Constitutional Monarchy slightly riminiscent of the British one, though with much more power given to the "First Regent" (effectively the Monarch) and the "Moot" (House-of-Lords equivalent) in the Regency than in current-day Britain.

The Regency is also very isolationist and afraid of the Wilds, though this might lead to its further stagnation. The question arises: will the "old order" pervail and lead to a slow and painful socio-economical degredation of the Regency, or will the progressive and anti-isolationist factions revolt? With historial centers of discontent with the Imperium such as Efate and Dinom in the Regency, I'm leaning towards the second option...

I see that now the Zhodnai are in peace with the Regency; this seems reasonable as the Zhodani policy was always one of containment, not of expansion, and the last thing the Regency needs is a war with the far more powerful Consulate. Also psionics are now legal in the Regency, which is an interesting change from the old era of prosecution.

Captive virii with high adaptive capabilities... Hmmm... Seems like the perfect plot device for a frankenstien-style adventure where a seemingly "tame" virus takes over a research facility and does Bad Things (tm). Cliche', technophobic, but a great adventure if presented in the right way.

And it seems that some nobles are very dissatidfied with Norris' limited democratic reforms - someone might try to enact a Restoration, but what would be the response of the masses to someone who'll try to take away their newly-won democratic rights? Would this would-be usurper face doesns of "Dinoms" within few months?

And there is a Psion career on p.173! Yay!

Pocket Empires are very interesting settings to play in, especially since players will have quite alot of autonomy, government funding, a built-in patron (the government) and unexplored space within one or two jumps from the Pocket Empire. The HubWorlds are quite a detailed setting, complete with internal rivalries within its immense bureaucracy and piracy as the main external threat (AAARRRRRRRRR!!!).

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the Worlds and Travel Chapter - Part 1

The opening passage of this chapter delivers once again the basic spirit of the TNE milieu: "The challenges are many; the rewards are incalculable". It is a milieu about progress about the rebirth of civilization from its ashes, of exploration and discovery.

I see that the old UWP format has been retained from CT/MT, which is a great thing.

At a first look, the world-generation system seems to follow the standard Traveller conventions, with a few additions that add details but increase complexity (such as starport occurances varying between Backwater, Frontier, Mature and Clustered areas, or the distinction between Small and Large Gas Giants - which is similar to CT-LBB6).

I see that the "Referee Notes" from CT-LBB3's world generation system have been copied-and-pasted into TNE pp.182-184 with very small changes (such as the three new atmosphere types - Dense-High, Ellipsoid and Thin-Low).

The Extended System Generation system seems very similar to the CT-LBB6 one.

One thing which I've seen in MT and TNE (and some of the later CT stuff) is the sector-wide hex-location code, such as "Roup 2007", rather than the usual CT subsector-only hex number. How is the newer number translated into subsector location?

The Collapse Effects determination tables seem to be quite harsh - and would probably result in a unifromly-devastated wasteland dominated by TEDs. I'd probably try to apply a certain degree of moderation (such as a chance to avoid contact with destructive strains of the Virus for backwater worlds) to this system if I'd ever run a game in the TNE milieu.

Why use different UWP governmwent codes for the Wilds (p.191)? This only serves to confuse veteran Traveller players who'll see a "4" and think "Representative Democracy" while TNE will have it as a "Charismatic Dictator".

The Collapse rules seem to lack any rules for technological and starport recovery (not ALL worlds are reactionary TEDs, after all): do other TNE sourcebooks (I've recieved some of them from as a barter-payment for my writing services but I haven't read them yet) include such rules, or does the Referee have to fudge these?

 

[aramis]

ABCD
EFGH
IJKL
MNOP
0101 is A 0101
0901 is B 0101
0111 is E 0101
etc
(I may have the numbers reversed)

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Aramis:
ABCD
EFGH
IJKL
MNOP
0101 is A 0101
0901 is B 0101
0111 is E 0101
etc
(I may have the numbers reversed)

So, if I've gotten this right, its XXYY (in sector-wide coordinates with the coreward-spinward corner as "0101"), and 1801 would be C 0101, right?

 

[mike wightman]

1701 would be C 0101, 1801 would be C 0201.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the Worlds and Travel Chapter - Part 2

This section begins with a discussion of game time, that is the Game Day, the 4-hour Period of activity within the day (which is a good idea for prolonged activities; it also simplifies travel distance and fuel consumption calculations, as it is simpler than calculating stuff by the hour).

Travel rates are given in TNE in a four-hour basis, which, while simplifying the calculations involved in planetary-surface travel, is quite counter-intuitive as most people are used to think of speeds in Km/h (or Miles/h). There is one travel rate for road travel and one for off-road travel, and a very comprehensive list of various vehicles' movement rates is given on p.196.

... players are likely to spend far more time exploring Earth-like worlds. Players will probably not wish to spend six months slogging around a world in their vacc suits because the "air" is gaseous ammonia and the "water" is pure god-knows-what else.

(p.196)
I believe that this is incorrect - sure, Earthlike environments are easy to describe and easy for (unmodified) Humans to work on, but alien environments could be very interesting and fun to explore - how many of you would, for example, want to "slog" around Mars for six months in vacc suits and pressurised rovers because the "air" is low-pressure CO2 and the only water you'll see around is frozen? I for once would be willing to give ALOT to do so! From Luna to Mars to (pre-terraformation) LV-426, alien worlds are a staple of sci-fi; they should be visited as often as earthlike ones are.

... the closer it is to terrestrial standards, the more valuable it will be for a greater number of purposes

(pp.196-197)
I believe this, too, is incorrect - even today Humans work in the most inhospitable environments on Earth - from hellish deserts and frozen wastes to the depth of the oceans and the upper limits of the atmosphere - in search for rare resources and for military purposes, let alone the basic Human instinct to explore and learn. Also, following the architypical TNE "feel" of things, Humans should go to alien worlds for the express purpose of terraforming them (TL-G? Why TL-G for global terraformation? Oh, I forgot, TNE was written before Kim Stanely Robinson's Red Mars).

This is followed by the usual discussion of the effects of planetary gravity on gameplay and by rules for travel in non-standard terrains (woods, snow and so on).

TNE has simple and effective rules about fatigue - you must sleep one period (4 HOURS - someone must have been to the military!) per day of normal work or two periods per day of hard work to avoid a loss of fatigue; each period of sleep recovers one point of fatigue. Hard work (or any combat in a period) also "costs" one point of fatigue per period. All Attributes are reduced by the amount of fatigue points, and also direct fire becomes more difficult for fatigued characters. Quite simple rules - better in terms of simplicity than the TNE norm!

Food requirements are also simple. A human has to eat 3kg of natural foor, 2kg of processed food or 1.5 kg of concentrated rations per day to avoid starvation (which causes fatigue and, ofcourse, eventual death after a month or so). There are also rules for foraging (i.e. gathering food), fishing and hunting on pp.200-201, which are very good and quite simple.

 

[Golan2072]

Comments about the Worlds and Travel Chapter - Part 3

Vehicle cards sound like a good idea - consolidate all nescery data in one place - but I'll comment about them once I'll see an actual example of one (probably later in this book).

Fuel consumption is also detailed, though vehicles capable of consuming more than one type of fuel have different consumption rates for different fuel types, but this isn't THAT complex as most vehicles probably consume only one type of fuel.

The Encounters section is basically a long list of good ideas and suggestions for encounters; Referees are advised to devise their own ones. Some of the suggestions look like ones from the old CT adventures - especially DA2.

 

[Eduardo]

A lot of the changes in TNE appear to be the desire to meld Twilight 2000 to Traveller and create a more 'universal' rules system. I don't really ahve time to elaborate at the moment, but I'm sure others know what I mean here.

There is also the World Tamers supplement, which has rules for 'previous exploitation' of natural resources and some other stuff.

I think there was a need for changing some of the government UWP's; it would have been more unwieldly to tack the new ones on to the end of the ones already in use.

The need to focus on 'habitable' worlds is probably due to the financial costs of colonizing. The RC has 'high tech equipment', but little in the way of actual high tech manufacturing, which makes 'relic' tech a reason for salvage ops on inhospitable worlds, just for maintenance and keeping up what they already have. The equipment needs of colonists on inhospitable worlds is much higher, and thus much more expensive and tech level dependent than 'garden worlds', and the need for an agicultural base for a colony that may end up on it's own resources from time to time is obvious, given that the 'universe' is no longer stable, and 'pirate fleets' and Virus are still very much alive out there.

It's a conservative approach to expansion. No need for dependency on trade for food means you stay alive longer. Then there is the fact of being able to use lower sustainable tech levels, a very important survival issue in the case of isolation for whatever reason. And lower tech colonists to boot; a quick look at Yontez highlights the tendencies of high population worlds towards low tech levels in this era, for a variety of reasons. Players from low tech environments are more viable as player characters, and indeed in many cases better off. At least it allows for a more eclectic range of tech-based skills.

The lack of scavenging rules is certainly a big hole. I assume they were saved for a later supplement that never appeared. The twilight 2000 rules set had some simple tables for this, covering mostly vehicles and stuff, that worked fairly well for a beginning. There are also some fan created scavenging and 'rebuilding' rules and tables out there on the net for T 2000 that can be adapted, or used to be, anyway; I've downloaded some of them. Thre are many worlds where a Traveller Collapse campaign can also use the T 2000 rules and encounters quite easily, and I've experimented with a few that worked pretty well for both the ' Let's get there and kill everything!' gamers to the geeks who like to play a T 2000 version of 'Sim City' or roleplaying versions of Sid Meier's railroading games.

Just a few observations and personal opinions, all worth exactly what you paid for them. I really like the TNE setting, and you're right about the Spinward Marches stuff allowing for a 'traditional' Traveller setting for those so inclined.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Eduardo:
A lot of the changes in TNE appear to be the desire to meld Twilight 2000 to Traveller and create a more 'universal' rules system. I don't really ahve time to elaborate at the moment, but I'm sure others know what I mean here.

I know that TNE uses the Twilight 2,000 rule system; this system seems to me, from what I see in TNE, as quite rule-heavy, detail-heavy and simulasionist, which fit some players' gamestyle, but not mine on most occasions (I love Striker, but I don't use it to play Traveller, especially with my girlfriend around; she's a fantastic roleplayer, but she likes her rules light).

There is also the World Tamers supplement, which has rules for 'previous exploitation' of natural resources and some other stuff.

I have recieved this book only recently and I didn't have time to read it yet.

I think there was a need for changing some of the government UWP's; it would have been more unwieldly to tack the new ones on to the end of the ones already in use.

The only significant new ones I recall (I don't have the book near me right now) are the TED, which could be described as "Technocratic Feudalism", "Charismatic Dictatorship", "Non-Charismatic Dictatorship", "Charismatic Oligarchy" or "Non-Charismatic Oligarchy" described in CT/MT/T4; and the Tribal government, which is basically Gov-0 or "Participatory Democracy" in CT/MT/T4 terms. The thing is that, aside from the fact that TEDs are grossly over-aboundant in TNE, there is no need to confuse continuing players (which, I get a feeling, are most of the TNE players).

The lack of scavenging rules is certainly a big hole. I assume they were saved for a later supplement that never appeared. The twilight 2000 rules set had some simple tables for this, covering mostly vehicles and stuff, that worked fairly well for a beginning. There are also some fan created scavenging and 'rebuilding' rules and tables out there on the net for T 2000 that can be adapted, or used to be, anyway; I've downloaded some of them. Thre are many worlds where a Traveller Collapse campaign can also use the T 2000 rules and encounters quite easily, and I've experimented with a few that worked pretty well for both the ' Let's get there and kill everything!' gamers to the geeks who like to play a T 2000 version of 'Sim City' or roleplaying versions of Sid Meier's railroading games.

You mean tech-scavanging rules? These sound quite interesting tyo have. Care to share your work on this subject?

I really like the TNE setting, and you're right about the Spinward Marches stuff allowing for a 'traditional' Traveller setting for those so inclined.

I like the TNE setting too, especially with the Virus/TEDs/Collapse toned town a bit to increase variety without damasging the atmosphere/flavor too much.

 

[Eduardo]

You mean tech-scavanging rules? These sound quite interesting tyo have. Care to share your work on this subject? [Smile]

Do you mean links, or files I've made for them? The T 2000 rules are in the T 2000 books, along with some of the T 2000 modules, and a lot stuff can be pulled off web pages for T 2000, and some older T2300 pages as well. I'd have to dig them all up, see if the links still work, or copy and paste them to Openoffice and whatnot. My own printouts are a hodge-podge of copy and pastes, which I usually deleted after printing them out. I also use the Aftermath search tables, which are easily modified; htey're great for picking through entire cities.

 

[aramis]

I really like the TNE setting, and you're right about the Spinward Marches stuff allowing for a 'traditional' Traveller setting for those so inclined.

Except that Mr. Nilsen decided to strip the nobility out of even there; according to the Regency sourcebook, the nobles have been pulled out of the powerbase, making titles about pointless. So, in Canon, no, you can't keep the "old school setting feel" anywhere.