Fixing the Economics

[aramis]

Hilariously broken. Did Aramis ever post the breakdown in MongPub's forum? I'd be fascinated to know their response.

No. Well, not since they published the core rulebook. I did run the numbers based upon draft 3.0. They ignored that one.

 

[aramis]

2000 + 2000 + 2083 + 42 = 6125 > 4125
So how much does a Steward cost?
(I suspect a simple typo.)

you suspect quite wrongly.

The steward costs

Item	Cr/Mo​	Notes
Salary	Cr2000​	—
Life Support	Cr4000​	Cr2000/2 week trip x 2 trips
Stateroom Mortgage	Cr2083​	Cr500000/240
StateroomMaintenance	Cr500​	Cr500000/1000
	​
Total, SO	[ Cr8583​	Not counting 4 tons cargo space lost to the SR

ANd for double occupancy stewards (not allowed for commercial ships per the rules):

Item	Cr/Mo​	Notes
Salary	Cr2000​	—
Life Support	Cr3000​	Cr1500/2 week trip x 2 trips
Stateroom Mortgage	Cr1042​	(Cr500000/240)/2
StateroomMaintenance	Cr250​	(Cr500000/1000)/2
	​
Total, DO	Cr6292​	Not counting 2 tons cargo space lost to the half SR

Note that in MGT, you need a steward per 10 mid passengers and per 2 high passengers, quite unlike ANY other edition.

Mongoose doesn't allow double occupancy staterooms for commercial ships... so the cost of a passenger is a stateroom plus a fraction of a steward.
The cost for a passenger is, at a minimum, 4 tons of cargo lost plus his LS, plus the maintenance share. The minimum cost per ton of cargo possible under the TMB rules is Cr538 per payload ton... which translates to Cr2152. Add the Cr2000 for his life support. And the 250 for maintenance on the stateroom. A mid passenger is thus at least Cr4402 for J1, but you only get paid Cr3000.

Absolute minimum for J2 is Cr4200 from lost tonnage, instead of the 2152, a difference of Cr2048; the increased payout of KCr6 would cover that, but you still need to add for the steward.

Both of these get worse when you add the Cr1042 for the stateroom from a "standard mortgage" of 20% down... (which is half the monthly cost).

 

[atpollard]

One other big broken bit:
You can replace a level 1 steward (4 HP or 10 pass) with 2 tons of of luxuries... this frees up 2 tons of cargo or half a stateroom...
And the steward is Cr4125/mo, counting LS, Salary, and payment share
Cr2000 Salary
Cr2000 LS
Cr2083 Payment Share on Stateroom
__Cr42 Maintenance on Stateroom

The 2 Ton of luxuries is Cr200,000, for about Cr850/mo
Cr833 Payment share
_Cr17 Maintenance Share
But it also saves you Cr 2000/mo or more by adding cargo space...

2000 + 2000 + 2083 + 42 = 6125 > 4125
So how much does a Steward cost?
(I suspect a simple typo.)

you suspect quite wrongly.

The steward costs

Item	Cr/Mo​	Notes
Salary	Cr2000​	—
Life Support	Cr4000​	Cr2000/2 week trip x 2 trips
Stateroom Mortgage	Cr2083​	Cr500000/240
StateroomMaintenance	Cr500​	Cr500000/1000
	​
Total, SO	[ Cr8583​	Not counting 4 tons cargo space lost to the SR

ANd for double occupancy stewards (not allowed for commercial ships per the rules):

Item	Cr/Mo​	Notes
Salary	Cr2000​	—
Life Support	Cr3000​	Cr1500/2 week trip x 2 trips
Stateroom Mortgage	Cr1042​	(Cr500000/240)/2
StateroomMaintenance	Cr250​	(Cr500000/1000)/2
	​
Total, DO	Cr6292​	Not counting 2 tons cargo space lost to the half SR

Note that in MGT, you need a steward per 10 mid passengers and per 2 high passengers, quite unlike ANY other edition.

Mongoose doesn't allow double occupancy staterooms for commercial ships... so the cost of a passenger is a stateroom plus a fraction of a steward.
The cost for a passenger is, at a minimum, 4 tons of cargo lost plus his LS, plus the maintenance share. The minimum cost per ton of cargo possible under the TMB rules is Cr538 per payload ton... which translates to Cr2152. Add the Cr2000 for his life support. And the 250 for maintenance on the stateroom. A mid passenger is thus at least Cr4402 for J1, but you only get paid Cr3000.

Absolute minimum for J2 is Cr4200 from lost tonnage, instead of the 2152, a difference of Cr2048; the increased payout of KCr6 would cover that, but you still need to add for the steward.

Both of these get worse when you add the Cr1042 for the stateroom from a "standard mortgage" of 20% down... (which is half the monthly cost).

So where does the 4125 credit figure in the first post come from?
The numbers presented below it add up to 6125.
Neither 4,125 nor 6,125 appear anywhere in your response (the second quoted post).

I am not debating your conclusions, I am just having trouble following the math in the top quoted post.

 

[aramis]

So where does the 4125 credit figure in the first post come from?
The numbers presented below it add up to 6125.
Neither 4,125 nor 6,125 appear anywhere in your response (the second quoted post).

I am not debating your conclusions, I am just having trouble following the math in the top quoted post.

I forgot in the latter that MGT did halve the cost of LS. Which is the Cr2000 discrepancy.

 

[CosmicGamer]

aramis posted ALL the math. Didn't you READ it?

I did read the post I quoted and questioned. The entire post was simply "Passengers in MgT are less profitable per ton than freight." In another post he SAYS

I work out the passage costs by figuring out the payment and maintenance cost shares for the passenger stateroom, and the share of a steward (if needed) and the steward's stateroom, and then adding the costs of the cargo tonnage lost to the staterooms.

That sounds good, but I did not see the math in that post. Perhaps it was in a different, earlier post? Please provide a reference to it. I also asked him to explain and in a later post he says

The minimum cost per ton of cargo possible under the TMB rules is Cr538 per payload ton... which translates to Cr2152. Add the Cr2000 for his life support. And the 250 for maintenance on the stateroom. A mid passenger is thus at least Cr4402 for J1, but you only get paid Cr3000.

But I see some issues like:
Does "per payload ton" mean per a 2 week jump run or per month cost?

2000 is for life support of the stewards stateroom for one month
3000 is for one passenger for one jump run, aprox 2 weeks
So should we
A) Double that 3000 (mid passenger income per 2 week jump run) to 6000 and it's > than the 4402 figure, if 4402 was a monthly calculation?
or
B) 1/2 the 2000 (monthly life support cost) to 1000 and get 3402 instead of 4402 if it is a per 2 week jump run calculation?

Next, some of the other costs related to the steward, such as life support, maintenance and mortgage costs of the stewards stateroom, I believe should be spread across multiple passengers and not just one. The number of passengers to spread this out would vary based on the skill level of the steward and the number of passengers rolled up as being available. So if we have one passenger, can't/shouldn't we look at the other end? In the case of mid passage, to keep with aramis' quoted example, and a steward of just level 1, this would be 10 middle passengers to spread the costs between.

Lets assume it's B above, a per 2 week jump calculation, since A above appears profitable already.

If we average steward cost out between 10 mid passengers I get:
1000 (1/2 off 2000 for life support for one steward stateroom for one 2 week jump trade run)
+250 (?figure from aramis for maintenance on the stewards stateroom for one 2 week jump trade run?)
=1250
1250 / 10 (spread cost out between 10 mid passengers)
= 125
125 + 2152 (aramis' figure from earlier for "cost per ton of cargo" x4 for a 4dt stateroom. I'm not sure what went into coming up with this figure. Crew costs? Fuel costs? I'm not sure or if it is per 2 week jump run or monthly.)
= 2277
In the above quoted post, I believe this was just for the steward, we still need the life support, maintenance, and other costs of the actual passenger stateroom, the stewards salary, and so on. Still not ALL the math.

Could I do it myself? Yes. I don't find all the math enjoyable, I probably will miss things and make mistakes. People posting summaries and some math must have done all this? Why should I redo their work? Like when I was in school, a long long long long time ago. Show your work if you want full credit.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I just don't see, or understand the math behind the summaries and statements. Perhaps it is all there in bits and pieces spread between numerous posts. In places there is possible mixing of monthly and per 2 week jump figures. There is the use of specific examples which may be one end of a broad range of possibilities (like putting all the expenses on one passenger instead of spreading them across multiple passengers) and in others places I see averaging (#1): such as inefficient 200 ton Jump 6's with various sizes up to 2000dt? There are discrepancies between posts (#2). My math is not the best and I have no psychic abilities to determine what someones figures represent. I can barely follow along in one posting let alone if it's spread between the verbiage and actual math of numerous posts which need to be able to pieced together. I'd like to see it detailed in one place. Is that too much to ask?

(#1)Thank you atpollard for trying to explain

If you design Jump 6 freight only ships of 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800 and 2000 dTons and calculate the cost of operating the ship per ton of cargo space, you will discover that the ships cost between 44,323.65 and 111,265.74 credits per dTon of cargo space to operate at J6.

Not sure how the figures of Cr538 per payload ton and 44,323.65 and 111,265.74 credits per dTon of cargo space are determined, but it is quite a difference, no?

(#2)

And the steward is Cr4125/mo, counting LS, Salary, and payment share
Cr2000 Salary
Cr2000 LS
Cr2083 Payment Share on Stateroom
__Cr42 Maintenance on Stateroom

Cr42 Maintenance on Stateroom here but 250 for maintenance in the other post? 2083 Payment Share on Stateroom? Things don't match up for me.

 

[aramis]

I did read the post I quoted and questioned. The entire post was simply "Passengers in MgT are less profitable per ton than freight." In another post he SAYSThat sounds good, but I did not see the math in that post. Perhaps it was in a different, earlier post? Please provide a reference to it. I also asked him to explain and in a later post he saysBut I see some issues like:
Does "per payload ton" mean per a 2 week jump run or per month cost?

2000 is for life support of the stewards stateroom for one month
3000 is for one passenger for one jump run, aprox 2 weeks
So should we
A) Double that 3000 (mid passenger income per 2 week jump run) to 6000 and it's > than the 4402 figure, if 4402 was a monthly calculation?
or
B) 1/2 the 2000 (monthly life support cost) to 1000 and get 3402 instead of 4402 if it is a per 2 week jump run calculation?

Next, some of the other costs related to the steward, such as life support, maintenance and mortgage costs of the stewards stateroom, I believe should be spread across multiple passengers and not just one. The number of passengers to spread this out would vary based on the skill level of the steward and the number of passengers rolled up as being available. So if we have one passenger, can't/shouldn't we look at the other end? In the case of mid passage, to keep with aramis' quoted example, and a steward of just level 1, this would be 10 middle passengers to spread the costs between.

Lets assume it's B above, a per 2 week jump calculation, since A above appears profitable already.

If we average steward cost out between 10 mid passengers I get:
1000 (1/2 off 2000 for life support for one steward stateroom for one 2 week jump trade run)
+250 (?figure from aramis for maintenance on the stewards stateroom for one 2 week jump trade run?)
=1250
1250 / 10 (spread cost out between 10 mid passengers)
= 125
125 + 2152 (aramis' figure from earlier for "cost per ton of cargo" x4 for a 4dt stateroom. I'm not sure what went into coming up with this figure. Crew costs? Fuel costs? I'm not sure or if it is per 2 week jump run or monthly.)
= 2277
In the above quoted post, I believe this was just for the steward, we still need the life support, maintenance, and other costs of the actual passenger stateroom, the stewards salary, and so on. Still not ALL the math.

Could I do it myself? Yes. I don't find all the math enjoyable, I probably will miss things and make mistakes. People posting summaries and some math must have done all this? Why should I redo their work? Like when I was in school, a long long long long time ago. Show your work if you want full credit.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I just don't see, or understand the math behind the summaries and statements. Perhaps it is all there in bits and pieces spread between numerous posts. In places there is possible mixing of monthly and per 2 week jump figures. There is the use of specific examples which may be one end of a broad range of possibilities (like putting all the expenses on one passenger instead of spreading them across multiple passengers) and in others places I see averaging (#1): such as inefficient 200 ton Jump 6's with various sizes up to 2000dt? There are discrepancies between posts (#2). My math is not the best and I have no psychic abilities to determine what someones figures represent. I can barely follow along in one posting let alone if it's spread between the verbiage and actual math of numerous posts which need to be able to pieced together. I'd like to see it detailed in one place. Is that too much to ask?

(#1)Thank you atpollard for trying to explainNot sure how the figures of Cr538 per payload ton and 44,323.65 and 111,265.74 credits per dTon of cargo space are determined, but it is quite a difference, no?

(#2)Cr42 Maintenance on Stateroom here but 250 for maintenance in the other post? 2083 Payment Share on Stateroom? Things don't match up for me.

Apply standard discount and volume production discount to get below.

Per payload ton is per month.
Per Ton per Jump is one ton one jump of maximum distance
Per ton per Pc is the cost per parsec of 1 ton for a ship makeing a maximum jump, used for comparing the costs of shipping distances by various routes, so one can determine the relative opportunity costs of faster shipping. There is a LOT of data that you really don't need to know presented.

All the work is in the spreadsheet. LOOK IN THE F*ING spreadsheet. There are literally several hundred ship designs. I'm not about to post "all the work" let alone do it all longhand.

 

[CosmicGamer]

All the work is in the spreadsheet.

Where is the spreadsheet? I saw mention of it but no link.

 

[CosmicGamer]

StateroomMaintenance Cr500 Cr500000/1000

That figure would be for a year. I believe this should be Cr42 Cr500000/12000

 

[cuTTer]

No. Well, not since they published the core rulebook. I did run the numbers based upon draft 3.0. They ignored that one.

Yeah, I received similar blank stares anytime I questioned numbers in the core rulebook, so I stopped questioning (and buying).

 

[CosmicGamer]

Ok, so I went ahead and did it myself. Let me know if anything is off.

Passanger	Cost per month
Stateroom		500,000
Motgage	2084	1/240th
Maintenance	42	1/12000
Life support	2000
Total	4126

Steward costs	Cost per month
Salary	2000
Stateroom		500,000
Motgage	2084	1/240th
Maintenance	42	1/12000
Life support	2000
Total	6126

Assumptions
Other crew salaries, fuel, and other expenses for running a ship would probably not change whether a space is used for passengers or cargo.

4126 per passanger with the 6126 in stewards cost divided by the # of passengers
Cost per month = PSC*P+SC
PSC = Pasenger Stateroom costs
P = # of passengers
SC = Steward costs

PSC	SC	P	Cost per mo	Mid	High	Mid	High
4126	6126	1	10,252	6000	12000	(532)	219
4126	6126	2	14,348	12000	24000	(198)	802
4126	6126	3	18,504	18000	36000	(32)	1,094
4126	6126	4	22,756	24000	48000	69	1,269
4126	6126	5	26,756	30000	60000	135	1,385
4126	6126	6	30,882	36000	72000	183	1,469
4126	6126	7	35,008	42000	84000	219	1,531
4126	6126	8	39,134	48000	96000	246	1,580
4126	6126	9	43,260	54000	108000	269	1,619
4126	6126	10	47,386	60000	120000	287	1,650

[tc=2] Income for J1 per month [/tc][tc=2] Profit per dt [/tc]

If my info is right, correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, it takes 4 mid passengers or just one high passenger to turn a profit. (#1) With these figures, at no point does J1 passengers meet or exceed the 2000cr per dton per month from freight cargo.

This doesn't take into account not having all the staterooms filled. Of course you might not have the cargo hold filled either...

EDIT: oops, already found the first error. Improper calculation of the per dton profit.

EDIT 2: does (income - cost) / 4+4*P sound right? 4+4*P being the 4dt for the stewards stateroom and 4dt for each passenger.
I've updated the table

EDIT 3: Another error in the cost per month calculation. Steward cost should not be divided by the # of passengers.
I've updated the table

EDIT 4: (#1) For clarification. This "profit" is not accounting for fuel, crew salaries other than steward, and so on. Items that would still need to be paid no matter if the space was used for cargo or staterooms.

EDIT 5: Another error. In my summery, I didn't double the 1000cr for freight to allow for two jump trade runs per month. This has been corrected above.

Lots of errors. Are there more? See why I wanted someone else who had already done it to post their work?

 

[CosmicGamer]

Now for J2
I believe the costs for staterooms, maintenance, mortgages, and salaries would be the same.
I believe income goes up based on the table from page 160.

PSC	SC	P	Cost per mo	Mid	High	Mid	High
4126	6126	1	10,252	12000	24000	750	1719
4126	6126	2	14,348	24000	48000	1000	2802
4126	6126	3	18,504	36000	72000	1125	3344
4126	6126	4	22,756	48000	96000	1200	3669
4126	6126	5	26,756	60000	120000	1250	3885
4126	6126	6	30,882	72000	144000	1286	4040
4126	6126	7	35,008	84000	168000	1313	4156
4126	6126	8	39,134	96000	192000	1333	4246
4126	6126	9	43,260	108000	216000	1350	4319
4126	6126	10	47,386	120000	240000	1364	4378

[tc=2] Income for J2 per month [/tc][tc=2] Profit per dt for J2 (#1)[/tc]

(#1) This "profit" is not accounting for fuel, crew salaries other than steward, and so on.
EDIT: See THIS LINK for the details of what PSC, SC, and Cost per mo are and how they were determined.

Mid passengers will still not bring in more income than freight.
More than one high passenger will bring in more income than if the space is used for freight cargo.

Do the math for a typical Tramp ship.

For the summary that follows,
- Using a Jump 2 Far Trader with 10 staterooms
- I assume the crew get 4 staterooms and 6 are for passengers.
- The costs for 6 staterooms, 30,882cr, is used even if not all of them are filled.

I believe any combination of mid and high passengers with income over 98082cr per month would be more profitable than the same 6 staterooms used for cargo.

Unless someone can point out more errors or show different figures, it looks like

Passengers in MgT are less profitable per ton than freight.

May be true at J1. I can see why you'd make the statement but it is not always the case for all ships and number and type of passengers at all jump capabilities. It is certainly possible, but not likely, at J2. Not likely, to me meaning less than 50% chance. Not sure how to calculate this chance with all the random and unknown factors. See pages 160 and 161 of the CRB. My math: Using a population of just 3 and 0 DM for current world (average world trade DM) gives a +3 DM. Using population of just 3 and -1 for destination world (average world trade DM) gives +2 DM for a total of +5. This is a 2d6–1d6 for high passengers. Average of 3.5 high passengers. Lets say one run is 3 and another is 4. The 4 high passengers with 2 empty staterooms (For a level 1 steward they always would be but a level 2 steward could fill them with mid passengers for even more income) would be more profitable than if the same 24dt of staterooms was used as freight cargo. On the 3 high passenger run you can get 3d6–2d6, or an average of 3.5 or 3 mid passengers. It only takes 3 high and 2 mid passengers (one stateroom could be empty) to have more revenue than 6 staterooms used as freight cargo. Obviously there are many situations, combinations, and die rolls, and examples where this may not be true.

EDIT: An error in calculating the income from freight changes things a bit. Income over 98082cr per month is needed now (already corrected above) instead of 86882cr per month. See THIS POST. In the summary above, you could not have 2 empty staterooms. 4 high and one mid passenger would work to beat the profits from cargo. So would 3 high and 3 mid. This would now require a level 2 steward. I believe a level 1 would not be able to do it.

J3 calculation next? J4? Hmm, not sure what standard ship to use as a trade ship example beyond J2. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[aramis]

Just discovered something ugly: MGT release is 1 steward per 2 HP or 5 MP.
So, at ~Cr 6K per 2 HP, the stateroom plus steward is 7K+Lost Cargo Tonnage.

Cosmic: the one thing you're forgetting is the cost of the lost tonnage of cargo space for the stateroom.

 

[McPerth]

Just discovered something ugly: MGT release is 1 steward per 2 HP or 5 MP.

In fact, it's one steward skill level (begining at 0) per 2 HP or 5 MP. So, should you have a steward with skill level 6, it could attend up to 35 MPs alone (though I guess he/she won't sleep a lot ), as could 7 skill level 0 stewards.

 

[Dagrill]

Now for J2
J3 calculation next? J4? Hmm, not sure what standard ship to use as a trade ship example beyond J2. Anyone have suggestions?

Hi,

Well done working out these examples. I'm not sure anybody would bother
shipping freight though and I use the CT book 2 rates for passengers.
My group always looks for a mail shipment though...

Kind Regards

David

 

[rancke]

J3 calculation next? J4? Hmm, not sure what standard ship to use as a trade ship example beyond J2. Anyone have suggestions?

If you want to establish a baseline and to be able to compare results, I suggest you design a number of ships of the same size, each one dedicated to one form of cargo or passenger and repeat for each jump number. I did that once, long ago, using 600T ships. If I ever muster the energy to do it again, I'll probably use 1000T ships to eliminate the distortion caused by the bridge.


Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

Cosmic: the one thing you're forgetting is the cost of the lost tonnage of cargo space for the stateroom.

The discussion was about freight which would be 1000cr per dton per trade jump or 2000cr per month at jump 1. Just realized another error I made though. The figure would be +200 per parsec or 1200 at jump 2 for 2400cr per month.

I don't use it as a cost, because, well, it isn't an expenditure, it's possible lost income. You'll have to explain it to me if I'm still missing something? It is an important figure for comparisons - which is why I broke the stateroom "profit" down to Profit per dt and not profit per passenger or stateroom. The 2000cr per dton per month at J1 and 2400cr per dton per month for J2 can be used in comparison to the Profit per dt figures I generated for passengers.

I believe any combination of mid and high passengers (like a level 1 steward caring for 4 high passengers and 2 staterooms are empty) with income over 86,882cr per month would be more profitable than the same 6 staterooms used for cargo.

The 86882 figure is wrong because I did not account for the additional income for a J2 2 parsec freight over a one parsec freight. 6 stateroom for passengers +1 stateroom for steward = 28dton. 28 x 2400 (and not 2000) = 67200. Plus the 30882cr expenses for the 6 passenger staterooms and the steward stateroom and salary = 98082.

I'll go back and correct my earlier post.

 

[aramis]

In fact, it's one steward skill level (begining at 0) per 2 HP or 5 MP. So, should you have a steward with skill level 6, it could attend up to 35 MPs alone (though I guess he/she won't sleep a lot ), as could 7 skill level 0 stewards.

Contradictory rules entry; the ship design rules call for 1 STEWARD, not one level of steward.

 

[aramis]

The discussion was about freight which would be 1000cr per dton per trade jump or 2000cr per month at jump 1. Just realized another error I made though. The figure would be +200 per parsec or 1200 at jump 2 for 2400cr per month.

I don't use it as a cost, because, well, it isn't an expenditure, it's possible lost income. You'll have to explain it to me if I'm still missing something? It is an important figure for comparisons - which is why I broke the stateroom "profit" down to Profit per dt and not profit per passenger or stateroom. The 2000cr per dton per month at J1 and 2400cr per dton per month for J2 can be used in comparison to the Profit per dt figures I generated for passengers.The 86882 figure is wrong because I did not account for the additional income for a J2 2 parsec freight over a one parsec freight. 6 stateroom for passengers +1 stateroom for steward = 28dton. 28 x 2400 (and not 2000) = 67200. Plus the 30882cr expenses for the 6 passenger staterooms and the steward stateroom and salary = 98082.

I'll go back and correct my earlier post.

Lost income IS an expense.

The price per ton of cargo is the cost of shipping that much non-drive non-controls non-fuel non-crew-quarters (excepting stewards) tonnage. In essence, you have to pay to ship the stateroom. And at the costs to the ship, not the price listed in the book.

On a J1, that varies by tonnage; when using the methodology to fix the prices overall so that you have actual reasons for trade, you have to fix prices so that people can both afford the ships and many many more can afford the passages aboard them.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Lost income IS an expense.

The flip side would also be true, no? The lost income of not taking a passenger would have to be an expense for cargo? Should the fact you don't have to pay a steward be considered income when calculating profit for hauling freight?

To me, the profit for hauling cargo is not decreased or altered by the non existent "what if" amount you might have made some other way. Nor is the profit for hauling passengers decreased or altered by the non existent "what if" amount you might have made hauling cargo or doing something else in that same space. Why stop with these what ifs?

How about the lost income for both freight and passengers for not doing speculative trade...?

What if instead of cargo space or passenger space we use the space as an indoor sports arena, commercial hydroponics, travelling art museum that charges admission as it goes from system to system.... Should these possible "what if" incomes, be expenses for both the cargo and passenger calculations?

My thinking: Decide to haul cargo, fine, what are the expenses for cargo hauling and not something you are not actually doing. Decide to haul passengers, fine, what are the expenses for cargo hauling and not something you are not actually doing. Decide to do something else... Then do a business analysis by comparing them side by side. Each individual business model with it's own income, expenses, and profit.

There may be some real world examples such as a business claiming loss of income while it's rebuilding due to a natural disaster? But I can't see a business like Walmart claiming what if we rented out the building as a warehouse, bowling ally, indoor sports arena, or whatever else instead and claiming the "lost income" as an expense.

 

[atpollard]

The flip side would also be true, the lost income of not taking a passenger would have to be an expense for cargo?

How about the lost income for both freight and passengers for not doing speculative trade...?

It starts getting way to complicated for me. We will have to agree to disagree here.

There may be some real world examples such as a business claiming loss of income while it's rebuilding due to a natural disaster? But I can't see a business that sells books using the "expense" of "if we sold electronics instead" or furniture or clothing or lumber or..... as an expense.

Looking at this another way ... do your costs associated with a stateroom (whether per passenger or per dTon) include a share of the cost for the Pilot and Engineer and fuel and bank payment for the ship?

Aramis 'cargo costs' are really just the cost of operating the ship per ton of 'empty' space. So Aramis would calculate the cost of a passenger by adding up all of the unique passenger costs (like staterooms and life support and stewards) and then adding the cost of operating the ship (which is his 'cargo cost').

Was I clearer?