Fixing the Magrail Gun (and other madness).

[Klaus]

I'd never heard it described as a neutron beam weapon before. That makes it sound a rather different beast. In fact I'm sure it would be a totally different weapon. There'd be no plasma involved at all in that would there?

Didn't mean it was a neutron beam; was just referring to a neutron flash as the weapon fires a bolt of fusing something-or-other.

Actually, it harks back a little to Spacemaster 2E, where in it's timeline there's an entry saying something like: The problem of radiation at the firing point with plasma based weapons is solved, allowing for blaster technology to flourish. Summat like that, anyway.

 

[far-trader]

Didn't mean it was a neutron beam; was just referring to a neutron flash as the weapon fires a bolt of fusing something-or-other.

OK, but it's too late I want a neutron beam rifle now! A pistol version can wait, a little :devil: Think of it...

...long range, flat trajectory, no recoil, clean (just kills people, no property damage), shoots through walls (without making holes) simplifying aiming, what else?

...but I'm just goofing around, haven't really thought it out at all.

 

[Allensh]

Here's the new reality in the world of Traveller; the REAL world, not the fictional one:

The sourcebooks Mongoose puts out in black covers that have names that are reminiscent of older books or supplements are NOT OTU only books. In order to increase the usefulness of the books for those who might want to use Traveller to model some other sci-fi background, such as, say, Warhammer 40K, Star Trek, etc., these books will contain some items that go outside the boundaries of the OTU. Some of these items will undoubtably be things you don't want to use. And you don't have to. Books that are intended to be OTU will have a different cover style, more like the Spinward Marches book, with art most likely.

This is what I have gleaned from things that have been said on the Mongoose forums by Matt and by Bryan, the author of Mercenary.

Allen

 

[aramis]

It also reduces their utility to those wanting a more hard-SF approach; they are taking a rather cartoonish set of extremes and presenting them as integrated.

 

[Allensh]

It also reduces their utility to those wanting a more hard-SF approach; they are taking a rather cartoonish set of extremes and presenting them as integrated.

I don't see where you get this "cartoonish" thing from. Bryan made reference to including some of these things based on other sci-fi souces, some decades old. I'm waiting to see if I can get some clarification on this but quite frankly, I have seen things like this in books myself. The problem is that some people have a very rigid idea of what Traveller is and they can't separate the Traveller background from the Traveller game...and they are different things.

So...don't like MagRail guns. don't use them. I don't plan to in my game.

Allen

 

[aramis]

The problem with the approach is that the cartoony tech (like the magrail gun firing disks) is that players will expect to use them in OTU games since they are in core rulebooks.

I've found, in 30+ years of gaming, that it is easier to add stuff to a games than deny stuff in the rules.

Magrail guns as a concept? Sure. (They are both more energy intensive and energy efficient, but suffer from friction more than coils.)

Firing shuriken? Bogus enough in 40K. No need to pollute generic stuff with bizzarre cartoony stuff.

 

[Icosahedron]

OK, but it's too late I want a neutron beam rifle now! A pistol version can wait, a little :devil: Think of it...

...long range, flat trajectory, no recoil, clean (just kills people, no property damage), shoots through walls (without making holes) simplifying aiming, what else?

...but I'm just goofing around, haven't really thought it out at all.

Sounds like a Meson Gun to me (except for the little property damage detail) - MGMP-21 perhaps?

 

[Klaus]

Books that are intended to be OTU will have a different cover style, more like the Spinward Marches book, with art most likely.

The OTU does not exist. "The Third Imperium" is just one 'OTU' among many, and folk are just going to have to get used to that.

 

[atpollard]

The OTU does not exist. "The Third Imperium" is just one 'OTU' among many, and folk are just going to have to get used to that.

There has been ONE TRUE OFFICIAL TRAVELLER UNIVERSE for thirty years. It will take me at least a decade of hard evidence to accept that MGT:Babylon 5 is as much an OTU as The Imperium.

And right now, there is still only one OTU.
(the others have yet to be released)

 

[mike wightman]

Nope - the OTU is an organic entity that has changed and evolved.

The OTU of the early adventures and supplements is very different from the OTU that High Guard brings into existance. Then we have the TNE OTU which has a very different tech paradigm to the earlier incarnations. Even the MT OTU is very different to the CT and TNE versions from a tech base point of view.

Want to talk about the changes that T4 brings?

There has never been one true OTU, it has changed and evolved with time and rules set. Each version is different enough to the previous version as to invalidate it.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There is one OTU.

There is one Official ATU (GT).

Anything else is YTU.

As well as being gratuitously confusing, by giving their books the same titles as the original CT ones Mongoose are implying that they are direct replacements. Including material that not only doesn't fit into the OTU but doesn't even fit the Traveller "feel" is obviously going to cause problems like this.

 

[Thunderbolt]

There is one OTU.

There is one Official ATU (GT).

Anything else is YTU.

As well as being gratuitously confusing, by giving their books the same titles as the original CT ones Mongoose are implying that they are direct replacements. Including material that not only doesn't fit into the OTU but doesn't even fit the Traveller "feel" is obviously going to cause problems like this.

I agree, they can't have it both ways.

 

[Icosahedron]

IMHO the OTU is the one Mr Miller uses. mega:

 

[mike wightman]

Good point, and one that I agree with.

Just a shame that the different versions of the rules and the various supplements to the same have given us different versions of this OTU which are incompatible with each other without major fudging.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

The one with the X-boats.

 

[whartung]

I don't see where you get this "cartoonish" thing from. Bryan made reference to including some of these things based on other sci-fi souces, some decades old. I'm waiting to see if I can get some clarification on this but quite frankly, I have seen things like this in books myself. The problem is that some people have a very rigid idea of what Traveller is and they can't separate the Traveller background from the Traveller game...and they are different things.

Just because they're decades old, doesn't give these sources any more legitimacy. They were cartoonish then, and they're cartoonish now. 40K is more "Space Fantasy", for example, than "hard sci fi".

Traveller, historically, as a system, has tried to remain anchored as a hard SF world. They even try to explain the handwavium they need to get their technologies to work. Mind, not by using big words from Enyclopedium Handwavius, rather they basically say "This doesn't work because physics says X -- so we have invent Y to try and pull it off".

So, that tack, that direction gives the game its feel. In D&D, magic works one way versus in other games. D&D is a "generic fantasy system", but it really only goes so far in terms of generic.

The mechanics, then, do have an effect on the feel for the system. Even for a "generic" system.

I mean, seriously, let's take D20 or Gurps Traveller. What makes it "Traveller"? D20? Gurps? No. "Traveller" makes it "Traveller".

What makes CT "Traveller"? 8+ task system? The char gen system? Book 2? A UWP? Or is it speed of light comms and the Jump drive? So, if I take D20 Modern and add a Jump drive -- is that "Traveller"?

What about Gurps 4E and Gurps HIGH TECH, plus Gurps SPACE. Is THAT Traveller? Why not? I mean, Traveller is just a generic Sci Fi game, right?

The LBBs presented a "world" view. A technology base, and physical model. A universe with a set of "rules", "how things work in the universe of Traveller". It also introduced a political system and society, ostensibly as by product of the universal laws.

It is trivial to separate the rules of the universe from the star spanning galactic political view of the Imperium. Plop a team on a random world to find a bauble. No imperium, no nothing. Spend an afternoon and roll up a subsector and grab a free trader. Off you go.

I have NEVER played the game "in the imperium". Worried about dukes and nobles and whatever. I play "small traveller". Starships, distant worlds, bush wars, treasure hunting, crazy industrialists.

Are we going to see a "Mongoose Traveller: Star Trek" book? "Mongoose Traveller: Terra Nova"? "Mongoose Traveller: Dark Apothicarium"? I don't think so.

Does "Traveller: Star Trek" make any sense at all? To me, no it doesn't. "GURPs: Star Trek" makes sense. Because GURPs isn't -- anything. It's the most base mechanics. How to make characters and how to break things. GURPs is the "Cold Raw Fish" of the gaming world.

But *I* see Traveller as something beyond "8+ to hit". That's why TNE is as much "Traveller" to me as CT is, but "Dark Conspiracy" is not.

So, I don't know what Traveller is to you. But I can tell you that for me, Disc Flingers, Lazguns and Killboyz are NOT Traveller.

And again, if Mongoose named this game "Starships and Stardust" or whatever else, this debate wouldn't be happening at all.

 

[Allensh]

well, there is going to be a Traveller: Starship Troopers, Traveller: Strontium Dog, Traveller: Judge Dredd and Traveller: Babylon 5. (or at least, two books to that effect).

I suspect if Mongoose got the Star Trek license, there would be a Traveller: Star Trek too. Because all of these games will use rules based on the Traveller game system. None of them will use the OTU background. I don't know if Mongoose will call these games Traveller:<insert game name here> other than the Babylon 5 books.

I think the license holders and copyright holders get to decide what Traveller is insofar as a commercial entity is concerned. You get to decide what your Traveller campaign will and won't be like.

Allen

 

[tbeard1999]

well, there is going to be a Traveller: Starship Troopers, Traveller: Strontium Dog, Traveller: Judge Dredd and Traveller: Babylon 5. (or at least, two books to that effect).

I can't wait to see if they "improve" those settings like they have Traveller...

 

[aramis]

Their Judge Dredd treatment for D20 was what gave me hope for MGT.

It appears that it's the fluke.

 

[Thunderbolt]

I'm puzzled about the idea of Traveller: Star Trek or Traveller: Babylon 5. They are of such different character from each other, and the underlying concepts of technology implied by Traveller just don't fit, particularly with Star Trek.