Flight Section Launch Tubes Crew question

[snrdg082102]

Evening again Sabredog,

There are several, actually a lot more, science fiction books, movies, and TV shows that have used mag-rails to launch objects carrying crews. Of course I can't remember the TV movie title that had a mag-level train that was built just above the liquid portion of the earth's crust. Jame Doohan, Star Trek's Scottie, go-authored a trilogy called the Flight Engineer where the craft were launched and recovered using electromagnetic systems.

Looking at the spinal gun mount you see that there is a shaded area encasing the tube. My guess, from the vague bits of information about the systems, is that cabling and other component pass through and are mounted in the area of shading that focus the spinal mounts beam.

The launch tubes also have shading around them indicating, at least to me, that they are inside a casing. Based on the descriptions of electromagnetic accelerators the magnets and cabling are probably in grooves, if not embedded, in to the casing surrounding the bore.

I'm giving my best guess on how I see the system operating, which may or may not be how the system workds at all.

Thanks Sabredog.

I'm not too sure that treating the launch tube as a giant mag-rail launcher would be healthy for the crew in the launched craft - but I think there could be a catapult system with hooks and tracks using a mag-lev system for throwing the craft out at high speed would be workable.

And even is you didn't have anything like that - just a rack of fighters, say, that rotate into position to shoot off down the tube to launch would get a lot of them out of the carrier than launching form hangars. If you look at the arrangement in Supplement 5 AHL that arrangement allows for both launch and recovery.

Now I'm now one of those canon-munchkin types who will cry "heresy" if you say the AHL supplement (which is the only example there is) doesn't show anything more than a tube and racetrack arrangement to get the fighters lined up and out the door quickly so therefor there is lots of room for interpretation. I go with the Galactic (shudder) example only because of timing - it was out in 1978 and had launch tubes...HG came out in 79 and had launch tubes. Hmmmmm.....

So naturally I have gone with the Galactica model ever since and just assume mag-lev catapults shoot the suckers out to clear the fighter hangars as fast as possible.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Carlobrand,

"no additional personnel other than the boat pilots and maintenance techs unless the ship has launch tubes": the boat pilot - i.e. a person with Ship's Boat skill, the skill required for piloting craft of under 100 tons - is indeed the crew for the craft.

I did miss understand the reference to the boat pilots. The small craft in Book 2, the exception is the fighter, has a crew of two with one that must have the appropriate piloting skill. The second crew member doesn't not have to have the appropriate pilot skill which at least to me means that there are additional personnel required.

I have no idea how the launch tube itself works. That's as good a way as any. However, if you're going to have large numbers of craft leaving (or return to) the ship and forming up in a short period of time, you need good control of the space in the near vicinity of the ship to prevent accidental collisions, not to mention whatever coordination goes into getting the thingies into the launch tube. Think in terms of an aircraft carrier: there's a bit of coordination getting the jets to the catapult, and the crew's job doesn't end when the fighter gets catapulted off.

I agree that good flight control is required to avoid collisions and other associated dangers, unfortunately the guidelines are missing and the individual is left to come up with something.


My apologies for not understanding about the boat pilots.

 

[Carlobrand]

...I did miss understand the reference to the boat pilots. The small craft in Book 2, the exception is the fighter, has a crew of two with one that must have the appropriate piloting skill. The second crew member doesn't not have to have the appropriate pilot skill which at least to me means that there are additional personnel required...

We're dealing with Book 5. Book 5 elaborated on the small craft crew requirements: "Crew: One crew member is required for the small craft— a pilot. ... One or more gunners may be optional crew members."

And then: "Weapons: A small craft may mount the equivalent of one turret. ... The pilot is assumed to be the gunner for one type of weapon on the craft. If additional types are mounted (a craft could conceivably have three different types of weapons), a gunner is required for each additional weapon. Exception: no additional gunner is required for sandcasters."

So, rather than the set 2-man crew of Book 2, you could have from 1 to 3 men crewing a boat. For example, say it's a TL-11 boat with with a mixed triple-turret consisting of a single F1 pulse laser and two missile launchers organized as two separate F-1 1-launcher batteries. The boat-pilot could operate one weapon, but the boat would need two gunners to operate the two missile launchers. Or, you could have a boat with just a pilot and three missile launchers organized as a single F2 battery.

 

[aramis]

Actually, come to think, did I just go with the gravipult on my own or did I see it somewhere in Traveller? The AHL writeup maybe?

Check Supp 5 for your answer... I think you looked at TNE and mingled... but since we were told that GFL weapons had well in excess of 20G's... gravipult sounds more fun, especially since, for the pilot, it's XG's of freefalling! (And without the nasty stop at the end!)

Tom:

See this quote from CT TTB p.61:

Listed crew for all small craft except the fighter is two: pilot and rider. The craft may be operated by one pilot if
desired. The pilot must have ship's boat skill (or may use pilot skill minus one). The rider may be a gunner, a passenger, or a co-pilot. If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapon with a DM of -1 on the weapon.​

The problem is it's poorly worded. It's really a crew of 1, 2 if a gunner is added, with a 2 seat cockpit.
The fighter is the same crew of 1, but no spare seat.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Carlobrand and Aramis,

In Book 5 the Small Craft Design Sequence states, at least to me, that the minimum requirement is one crew member who must have the appropriate pilot skill set. Book 2 requires all ships to have a pilot, which is a minimum crew requirement of 1.

Each small and/or big craft has a normal crew requirement as part of the statistics listed on the data card. A single-seat fighter's normal crew is 1, which meets the minimum of 1 crew member. A 20-ton launch has a normal crew listed as 2 and I count as 2 personnel being added to the flight section crew count.

The minimum requirement of 1 crew member is met if one of the 2 crew has the appropriate pilot skill. If the second crew member also has the appropriate pilot skill so much the better, if the second crew member is a gunner or steward the total crew for the 20-ton launch is still 2, not 1.

One of the rules that I'm not in agreement with is in HG where the pilot can handle only one weapon type, the exception being a sandcaster. Small craft can have a total of three weapons types chosen from the turret weapons table. HG states that the weapons are probably rigid and not in a turret. If they are rigid or fixed then the pilot should be able to operate them all. If one or two of the weapons types are mounted in a turret then a gunner should be included or the pilot, similar to Book 2, gets negative die modifiers.

Unfortunately, my view of the pilot using more than one weapon has not been well received on the forums.

I'll stick with including the listed small craft crew numbers when calculating the total flight section crew.

I do appreciate the views expressed and thanks for sharing them,

 

[SoCar_37]

Well, at TL8 the US Navy is working on installing mag-rail launchers on USS Gerald Ford (EMALS). So perhaps by TL14, crew health would be a non-issue.

I'm not too sure that treating the launch tube as a giant mag-rail launcher would be healthy for the crew in the launched craft - but I think there could be a catapult system with hooks and tracks using a mag-lev system for throwing the craft out at high speed would be workable.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening SoCar_37

Well, at TL8 the US Navy is working on installing mag-rail launchers on USS Gerald Ford (EMALS). So perhaps by TL14, crew health would be a non-issue.

Thanks for the bit of information another innovation. According to the news the next carrier class will be setting up berthing compartments with 30 to 50 racks, instead of up to 100. The plans also call for having the head adjacent to the berthing space and the heads will not have urinals.

 

[SanDragon]

Not.. have... urinals?!?!?

 

[aramis]

Not.. have... urinals?!?!?

Just commodes. Makes them unisex.

 

[snrdg082102]

Not.. have... urinals?!?!?

Yep, urinals are being removed to keep maintenance costs and smells down. Apparently they clog-up more than toilets. The other reason given is that they waste space when the berthing compartment is being used for female sailors.

Having had the pleasure of cleaning heads on more than one occasionn not having urinals is one less thing that needs cleaning.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Aramis,

Tom:

See this quote from CT TTB p.61:

Listed crew for all small craft except the fighter is two: pilot and rider. The craft may be operated by one pilot if
desired. The pilot must have ship's boat skill (or may use pilot skill minus one). The rider may be a gunner, a passenger, or a co-pilot. If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapon with a DM of -1 on the weapon.
​

The problem is it's poorly worded. It's really a crew of 1, 2 if a gunner is added, with a 2 seat cockpit.
The fighter is the same crew of 1, but no spare seat.

I'm hoping that TTB is shorthand for The Traveller Book, which I do not have, unless the book is in one of the eight FFE books, FFE 001 to FFE 008, that I do have.

I cited what appears to be the same material which I found in Book 2 on page 17 as part of an earlier discussion of crew requirements.

Here is how I interpret the cited material:

"Listed crew for all small craft except the fighter is two: pilot and rider."

The normal small craft crew complement is two, unless the craft is a single seat fighter. One grew member is designated as the pilot. The rider designation is a placer holder for the second crew member.

"The craft may be operated by one pilot if desired. The pilot must have ship's boat skill (or may use pilot skill minus one)."

Any small craft can be operated by a single crew member who must be a pilot. To efficiently operate the small craft alone a pilot must have the ship's boat skill. Not having ship's boat piloting skill results in a -1 DM when operating unfamiliar small craft.

"The rider may be a gunner, a passenger, or a co-pilot."

The gunner and co-pilot are no brainers. The passenger is probably a VIP that bumped the normal crew member.

The final sentence is a sore spot with me and has been part of earlier crew questions I've had.

"If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapon with a DM of -1 on the weapon."

Personally, I agree that the pilot, especially in a single seat fighter, should be able to fire all weapons installed on the small craft. Unfortunately the Ship Crews - Gunner requirement on page 16 of Book 2, in my opinion, conflicts with the above sentence:

"Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot."

Book 5 Small craft requirements on pages 34 and 35 also appear to me to contradict each other on the subject of weapons and gunners.

Weapons Book 5 page 34: "The pilot is assumed to be the gunner for one type of weapon of weapon on the craft. If additional types are mounted (a craft could conceivably have three different types of weapons), a gunner is required for each additional weapon. Exception: no additional gunner is required for sandcasters."

My interpretation is that the first weapon type installed can be controlled by the pilot without any problem. Adding up to two additional weapons, with the exception of sandcasters, one gunner per additional weapon is required.

If the pilot can operate one weapon, apparently without a negative DM like Book 2, then the pilot should be able to operate all weapons installed. However, just like today's fighter pilots, the pilot must select which weapon is to be used.

The entry on Book 5 page 35 states that "One or more gunners may be optional crew members."

For me the Crew gunner entry conflicts with the Weapons entry just like Book 2.

The apparent conflicting requirements prompted me to ask on either or both ct-starships and here: Do you have to have a gunner or not?

Book 5 page 34 states "That a small craft may mount the equivalent of one turret. In actuality, the mountings are probably rigid, and no actual turret is present. All computations, however, may assume that the craft carries one turret."

If the weapons are in rigid mounts and of the same type then the pilot should be able operate them. If the weapons are a combination then the pilot has to select which weapon is going to be fired.

If the weapons are a combination of rigid and turret mounted there is a probability that there is a gunner on board. The pilot operates the rigid mount and the gunner operated the turret. Of course the pilot could still operate all the weapons, but I'd give a negative DM on the weapons in the turret.

If the weapons are all in the turret the pilot could operate them, again with a negative DM, alone. Having a gunner controlling the turret would avoid the negative DM.

I also disagree that when three different weapons types, with the exception of sandcasters, are installed that two or three, pilot not involved with the weapons, are required. One gunner, like a single pilot, should be able to operate multiple weapon systems by selecting the weapon that is going to be used. For example the small craft has a missile launcher, laser, and a plasma gun. During combat the pilot or gunner must select which one is to be fired during the turn.

Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority and I apologize for bringing my crackpot ideas to light once again.

Thanks for the comments and view point.

 

[dean]

I think the important thing here is that you PICK A RULE SET and stick with it!

There's no use in vacillating between Books 2 and 5, looking for answers. There are significant differences in many important design considerations between the two, and trying to reconcile them with logic or wishful thinking just doesn't work.

If you are going to be designing ships for PC use, "adventurer class" ships, then a lot of people like to go with book two due to the less stringent overall crewing requirements.

If you plan on designing naval vessels for fleet combat, then Book 5 is your huckleberry.

Personally, I pretty much use Book 5 exclusively. House rules are also a wonderful thing.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Dean,

I think the important thing here is that you PICK A RULE SET and stick with it!

There's no use in vacillating between Books 2 and 5, looking for answers. There are significant differences in many important design considerations between the two, and trying to reconcile them with logic or wishful thinking just doesn't work.

If you are going to be designing ships for PC use, "adventurer class" ships, then a lot of people like to go with book two due to the less stringent overall crewing requirements.

If you plan on designing naval vessels for fleet combat, then Book 5 is your huckleberry.

Personally, I pretty much use Book 5 exclusively. House rules are also a wonderful thing.

I prefer Book 5 since one can design just about any size craft with them, unfortunately per Book 5 Crew Rules page 32:

Hulls >= 100 <= 1,000 I go with Book 2

Hulls > 1,000 tons I go with Book 5

Small Craft regardless of which rule set has in my opinion contradicting requirements and doesn't make sense to me.

The doesn't make sense part comes about when a pilot either can't use weapon systems or can use them or can use only one. My common sense says that fighter pilots are going to be able to utilize more than one weapon, especially if they are in a single seat craft.

Contradicting requirements don't help either in one section gunners are required when weapons are installed and in another section they are optional.

I have attempted to reverse engineer shared designs and discovered, just like the official designs, that one or more of the numbers don't match mine. The reason my numbers don't match is because of house rules that I didn't know were applied. My luck is the designs I reverse engineer don't include notes saying what the house rule is, sometimes I even miss the notes.

 

[far-trader]

(From Book 2):

"If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapon with a DM of -1 on the weapon."

Ship Crews - Gunner requirement on page 16 of Book 2, in my opinion, conflicts with the above sentence:

"Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot."

Nope, no real conflict in my opinion. The rules describe two separate states. It might be more clearly stated as:

"Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot to avoid the penalty when firing the weapon while also piloting the craft." (referencing the previous statement about the Pilot also firing the weapon)

 

[dean]

Evening Dean,



I prefer Book 5 since one can design just about any size craft with them, unfortunately per Book 5 Crew Rules page 32:

Hulls >= 100 <= 1,000 I go with Book 2

Hulls > 1,000 tons I go with Book 5

Small Craft regardless of which rule set has in my opinion contradicting requirements and doesn't make sense to me.

The doesn't make sense part comes about when a pilot either can't use weapon systems or can use them or can use only one. My common sense says that fighter pilots are going to be able to utilize more than one weapon, especially if they are in a single seat craft.

Contradicting requirements don't help either in one section gunners are required when weapons are installed and in another section they are optional.

I have attempted to reverse engineer shared designs and discovered, just like the official designs, that one or more of the numbers don't match mine. The reason my numbers don't match is because of house rules that I didn't know were applied. My luck is the designs I reverse engineer don't include notes saying what the house rule is, sometimes I even miss the notes.

No contradiction at all... as you observe the Book 5 rules state to use book 2 crew rules for (star) ships between 100 and 1000 tons, inclusive. It says naught about using Book 2 Small Craft rules, so you therefore use Book 5 Small craft crew guidelines. No conflict at all, insofar as I can see.

As for small craft pilots using more than one type of weapon, well, you'll have to take that up with the designer. Personally, I think mounting more than one weapon on a small craft (fighter) is folly, so it never effected me. However, it also says that a pilot can only use one weapon. I would take that as a per use basis. A missle and a laser? can use one, or the other, but not BOTH at the same time, but certainly could fight an enemy fighter THIS turn with the laser, and then launch missle(s) the next combat turn at the capital ship. In order to use BOTH weapons in the same combat turn you'd need a gunner for each additional weapon (except sandcasters).

I'd like to note that my interpretation is probably within the written expression of the rules, but not the spirit, which is likely that the pilot can control one specific weapon system. And, I can see where this is IMPORTANT from a game designer's point of view to simplify execution of combats on a fleet scale and ensuring an even playing field among the various ship designs of competing factions (players, say in a TCS tournament). Otherwise, recall, YOU are free to house rule things to your content!

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Dan,

Nope, no real conflict in my opinion. The rules describe two separate states. It might be more clearly stated as:

"Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot to avoid the penalty when firing the weapon while also piloting the craft." (referencing the previous statement about the Pilot also firing the weapon)

A far-trader is more adaptable than an old gray haired sailor which is probably why you didn't see a conflict.

The re-write does clear up the conflict in Book 2 Ship Crews and SmallCraftt rules that I felt was there in the original. Hopefully, I remember this clarification in the future and your name so I can cite the source.

Thanks Dan.

 

[Carlobrand]

...I prefer Book 5 since one can design just about any size craft with them, unfortunately per Book 5 Crew Rules page 32:

Hulls >= 100 <= 1,000 I go with Book 2

Hulls > 1,000 tons I go with Book 5

Small Craft regardless of which rule set has in my opinion contradicting requirements and doesn't make sense to me.

The doesn't make sense part comes about when a pilot either can't use weapon systems or can use them or can use only one. My common sense says that fighter pilots are going to be able to utilize more than one weapon, especially if they are in a single seat craft.

Contradicting requirements don't help either in one section gunners are required when weapons are installed and in another section they are optional.

I have attempted to reverse engineer shared designs and discovered, just like the official designs, that one or more of the numbers don't match mine. The reason my numbers don't match is because of house rules that I didn't know were applied. My luck is the designs I reverse engineer don't include notes saying what the house rule is, sometimes I even miss the notes.

It's not contradicting requirements. It's need-based requirements. The craft needs one ship's-boat-trained pilot - that's a minimum. If all it has to do is haul cargo up from the planet, or if all you have is one weapon, then that's all the crew you need. If you need other people to do other jobs - like operate that second weapon - then it needs two, a pilot and a gunner for the second weapon.

Under very rare circumstances - "...a gunner is required for each additional weapon ...", not weapon type - you might need three. For example, if you got it into your head to mount three missile launchers as three separate batteries instead of the more usual single battery, one can interpret the rules to require a gunner for each missile launcher after the first.

I'm sorry you disagree with the gunner rule, but it is the rule. High Guard is played in 20 minute turns, and I think the idea is the weapon operator spends much of that time just trying to set up the best possible firing solution for the one weapon he's responsible for. (Rather reminds me of submarine torpedo warfare.) He could arguably operate more than one weapon - in different turns, and assuming you declare which one he's controlling beforehand. It's not explicitly stated in the rules, but it's a reasonable position. However, he can't operate more than one in the same turn. You are of course free to make a house rule on the subject.

As to reverse-engineering - expect problems. There were two variants of High Guard, an initial one and a revised one released shortly after the initial one. It's not always clear which version was used for ship design. I also suspect in some cases that the folk hired to make designs were working from pre-release rules that suffered some changes after the designer did his work but before the rules were formally published.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Carlobrand,

It's not contradicting requirements. It's need-based requirements. The craft needs one ship's-boat-trained pilot - that's a minimum. If all it has to do is haul cargo up from the planet, or if all you have is one weapon, then that's all the crew you need. If you need other people to do other jobs - like operate that second weapon - then it needs two, a pilot and a gunner for the second weapon.

I am not disagreeing that the minimum required crew to operate small craft and hulls >99 to <= 1,000 tons is one pilot with piloting skill. The disagreement is how to count the bodies assigned to the craft. The standard designs in Book 2 Starships and Book 3 Worlds and Adventures provide the crew requirements. All the small craft, except the fighter which only needs one, requires a crew of two.

Custom designs must have a minimum crew of one plus how many additional crew members the designer deems necessary.

If there are 10 small craft with a crew of 1, the pilot, then the total flight section small craft crew is 10. Changing the crew from 1 to 2 in the 10 carried craft increases the total flight section small craft crew from 10 to 20.

Under very rare circumstances - "...a gunner is required for each additional weapon ...", not weapon type - you might need three. For example, if you got it into your head to mount three missile launchers as three separate batteries instead of the more usual single battery, one can interpret the rules to require a gunner for each missile launcher after the first.

Book 5 page 34: "The pilot is assumed to be the gunner for one type of weapon on the craft. If additional types are mounted (a craft could conceivably have three different types of weapons), a gunner is required for each additional weapon. Exception: no additional gunner is required for sandcasters."

The rule, hopefully I didn't change the wording, uses type three times. To me that means if the there is one missile and two lasers mounted I can have a crew of

1. Pilot operating the missiles + 1 gunner operating the 2 lasers
2. Pilot + 1 gunner operating missiles + 1 gunner operating the 2 lasers
3. Pilot + 1 gunner operating missiles + 1 gunner operating 1 laser + 1 gunner operating 1 laser.

Of the three choices I'd go use configuration 1.

I'm sorry you disagree with the gunner rule, but it is the rule. High Guard is played in 20 minute turns, and I think the idea is the weapon operator spends much of that time just trying to set up the best possible firing solution for the one weapon he's responsible for. (Rather reminds me of submarine torpedo warfare.) He could arguably operate more than one weapon - in different turns, and assuming you declare which one he's controlling beforehand. It's not explicitly stated in the rules, but it's a reasonable position. However, he can't operate more than one in the same turn. You are of course free to make a house rule on the subject.

Yes, the gunner is a requirement under weapons, but are optional under the crew rules. I may disagree with the rules, but I do use them.

I thought I clearly stated earlier that in a single seat fighter with two or three weapons the pilot has to decide which system to use for an attack. My apologies for not being clear.

If I am playing in a local game then I can handle house rules. The problem occurs when material using house rules is shared more often than not the house rules are not shared. Without the house rule reference I, which is not hard to do anyway, get confused.

As to reverse-engineering - expect problems. There were two variants of High Guard, an initial one and a revised one released shortly after the initial one. It's not always clear which version was used for ship design. I also suspect in some cases that the folk hired to make designs were working from pre-release rules that suffered some changes after the designer did his work but before the rules were formally published.

Actually there are more than two variants and their play test rule sets. There are the house rules variants, and the combined CT, MT, TNE, T4, T20, MgT, GT, other Traveller rules sets and imported material from other games.

Have a good one Carlobrand

 

[Carlobrand]

...I am not disagreeing that the minimum required crew to operate small craft and hulls >99 to <= 1,000 tons is one pilot with piloting skill. The disagreement is how to count the bodies assigned to the craft. The standard designs in Book 2 Starships and Book 3 Worlds and Adventures provide the crew requirements. All the small craft, except the fighter which only needs one, requires a crew of two.

Custom designs must have a minimum crew of one plus how many additional crew members the designer deems necessary.

If there are 10 small craft with a crew of 1, the pilot, then the total flight section small craft crew is 10. Changing the crew from 1 to 2 in the 10 carried craft increases the total flight section small craft crew from 10 to 20...

Exactly. Now you understand. Book 5 gives you a bit of flexibility.

...Book 5 page 34: "The pilot is assumed to be the gunner for one type of weapon on the craft. If additional types are mounted (a craft could conceivably have three different types of weapons), a gunner is required for each additional weapon. Exception: no additional gunner is required for sandcasters."

The rule, hopefully I didn't change the wording, uses type three times. To me that means if the there is one missile and two lasers mounted I can have a crew of

1. Pilot operating the missiles + 1 gunner operating the 2 lasers
2. Pilot + 1 gunner operating missiles + 1 gunner operating the 2 lasers
3. Pilot + 1 gunner operating missiles + 1 gunner operating 1 laser + 1 gunner operating 1 laser.

Of the three choices I'd go use configuration 1....

I'm not clear where you draw 2 and 3 from. The rule does say the pilot handles one weapon type.

There are three, and only three, weapon types that fit the triple turret: missile, laser, and sandcaster. Sandcaster requires no gunner (in High Guard). Fusion/plasma takes a double turret, ergo only one other weapon. Particle Beam is a single - no other weapon can be added.

Thus, if it's by type, you will never need more than a pilot and one gunner - the pilot mans whatever "type" has the most weapons (the lasers in your example), the gunner takes whatever's left, if there's anything left. I guess that eliminates the 3-crew possibility.

...Actually there are more than two variants and their play test rule sets. There are the house rules variants, and the combined CT, MT, TNE, T4, T20, MgT, GT, other Traveller rules sets and imported material from other games...

"There were two variants of High Guard..." High Guard is CT. MT is not High Guard, so far as I know. Can't speak for GT, MgT, and so forth, don't have those rule sets, don't know if they have a product they call "High Guard" or not. As far as I know, the issue under discussion is CT High Guard launch tubes.

 

[BlackBat242]

This thread IS in the section titled Classic Traveller, thus all discussions are assumed to be about Classic Traveller unless otherwise specified.

Other rules are only discussed in relation to Classic Traveller, and are expected to be a minor part of the discussion.... discussions expected to cover more than one rule set as a feature of the thread go in the appropriate sub-section of the General Traveller Discussions section.