Fourth Imperium or Fourth Republic?

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Savage:
[QB] Socialism, perhaps an Oligarchy. I've been to england on many occassions. The wife worked there for years. The class system is very dominant.

Actually, the class system in the UK is largely irrelevant, because there's so many middle class folks. Sure, you have the royalty, and you have the people below the poverty line, but it's hardly much more dominant than elsewhere.

And it's hardly socialist either, given 'New Labour' is firmly in the centre-right.

Sure it has the trappings of democracy. Well its really all how you define it. Wonder if our representative democracy will continue becoming less representative.

Well, Blair and his cronies do seem intent on walking roughshod over all in their path

. But their days are likely numbered with this enquiry going on.

But it's certainly not got to the point where it's undemocratic. Unlike another certain large western country I could mention *cough*dubious elections*cough*Florida*cough*

.

But truly representative democracy does generally seem to be a thing of the past...

 

[Erik Boielle]

Hey, I saw a program talking about how The Weakest Link was shocking to Americans because unlike Gerry Springer and the like, who insult lower class rednecks, she insulted good middle class Americans on telly which just doesn't happen.

With a Yankee presenter using those terms and everything.

And you have the whole Ivy League thing, which I get the impression is fully the equivalent of Oxbridge for snobbery.

Still, I spent some time at Exeter Uni where one of the main preocupations of the Youth was discussing who was and who was not an aristocrat - Made me want to unleash my inner Working Class Hero on them, even though I come from three generations of school teachers.

 

[Arsulon]

Judging by your responses, Doc, I'm going to guess your Secret Base is in the U.K. (puts red pin in map.)

It seems to me that representative democracy is oligarchical in nature: we tend to draw our political candidates from particular professional or social classes that, supposedly, make them well-suited for government. In Canada, for example, a law degree is virtually a must for a budding politician, wheras in other nations a high degree of importance is attached to military service or business acumen. I think a real historical strength of Britain's was the early triumph of the middle class: by the time the aristocracy begins to appear outmoded, society is in the position that it can seriously undertake the "reinvention" of the upper classes. Britain manages to tame the aristocracy by ensuring the primogeniture of peerage titles and by putting them to work in the military and/or foreign service. Poor France, on the other hand, is saddled with an exponentially increasing aristocracy as each and every child inherits his father's title: and to make matters worse, they're completely idle for the most part! Hence the Revolution and Terror in France: phenomena unparalelled in Britain thanks to an earlier Civil War and series of Parliamentary crises which smoothed the way for the aristocracy's transition to usefullness.

Oops! Oh yeah, this forum is about Traveller, isn't it? Harking back to the question of how prepared post-virus civilization would be to embrace another Imperium: judging by the sucessor states which venerate their Imperial heritage (e.g. Oasis in Zarushargar, Hubworlds in Massilia, Regency, that polity in Diaspora) I'd say no problem. Many states seemed to NEED a degree of authoritarianism just to survive the virus era. The institutions of the Imperium broke down on a macro scale but ultimately seemed to suceed on a regional micro scale: examples being the governments at Daibei, Delphi and Deneb (hmmm... the "D's" seemed to do well.)

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by Arsulon:
[QB] Judging by your responses, Doc, I'm going to guess your Secret Base is in the U.K. (puts red pin in map.)

It was... but now I'm lurking somewhere in your fine land.

 

[savage]

The UK has come a long way (Scotland and all) since Thatcher. And I do actually like the place and peoples but actually, I was thinking of the dubious upper class keeping life very expensive there. Although I tend to see similar things occuring in the states so we shall see.

As for the Florida election, I wasn't living here and that was the other side of the state where people have enough money they can afford to be illiterate. I was in CA under the inept sillyness of GD. They'll be paying for him for a long time.

***********
Fourth anything, hmmm.
The Vilani and Vagr could go far if they learned to work together. I'd say only wanta be 4th imperiums and flegling republics.

Savage

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Savage:

Fourth anything, hmmm.
The Vilani and Vagr could go far if they learned to work together. I'd say only wanta be 4th imperiums and flegling republics.

As if the Vargr could ever work together...

My last campaign borrowed from Niven to warp and twist the canon timeline. The true ancients were the Slavers, of Niven fame. The Droyne were their slaves. In fact, all sentient species were enslaved and tinkered with in order to serve the Slavers; the ancestral Vargr were the Tnuctipun, who eventually engineered the downfall of the Slaver empire.

Thus the Tnuctipun were more highly organized than the Vargr; I suspect that the genes drifted back toward the packlike norm of the original species.

ANYhow, the campaign takes off when a surviving Tnuctip scout enlists the players in a quest to wipe out the few Slavers who have recently reappeared, and are sowing the seeds of destruction in the Imperium in order to better re-enslave known space... thus the Rebellion is also part of the Slavers' plot, and the players have a chance to Save The Imperium. Fun stuff.

 

[savage]

The vargr have some social strengths. Anything for the Pack. So the packs have a military treaty with Vilani. Wouldn't be perfect but...if the they both were upset with the Regency it might work. Oh say if the regency had been tough on either for the last 50-100 yrs.


Savage