Free download of 2300 Rulebook at DrivethruRPG?

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Madarin Dude:
I have not looked at it that close. Yes that is a bad one. That is sort of like a chinese translation. They have soem expressions that don't translate well and sound absolutly silly when they do. I guess Neu Heidelberg would work better, after all it worked for York.

It is best to take it with a grain of salt and think of it as an attept to pull othr cultures into the game. They are well meaning but they do not have enough information.

Are there vehicle design seaqueces somewhere for 2300. My pinyin is really rusty so I won't even bother correcting the Chinese arm worlds. The Chiense tend to have names that translate very silly. There is a brand of motorcycles here that translates to happiness.

I heard there was one ad slogan for Pepsi that translated as "Pepsi makes your ancestors rise from the grave". (I am told it was supposed to be "Pepsi comes alive")

In other worlds, I feel your pain.

It´s kind of a pet peeve of mine... whenever there´s German in an English game or novel, there´ll be at least one silly mistake. In "1632" by Eric Flint, a German woman accepts a marriage proposal with the words "Ja, ich muss" - i.e. "Yes, I have to".

And why are so many future German nations just a faded copy of the Second German Empire (1871 to 1918)? That is, if they aren´t a new Nazi empire... somebody should tell American SF authors and game designers that Germany has been a free and stable democracy for the last 56 years...
Do you notice the same trend for future Chinese nations in SF?

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Chaos:
I heard there was one ad slogan for Pepsi that translated as "Pepsi makes your ancestors rise from the grave". (I am told it was supposed to be "Pepsi comes alive")

In other worlds, I feel your pain.

Movie titles in translation can be pretty fun.

As for 2300AD's German IIRC it's more or less admitted at this point that it has some errors in the translations and there was some discussion on correcting errors (at least for German from what I recall) in the playtest for 2320AD.

Most Chinese words I've seen in rpgs usually come with a disclaimer at front saying something like "we went for what works to us and don't mean to insult anyone". Secondary sources usually use a mix of romanization and characters and any RPG writer is bound to have a muddle to choose from.

For both in game justification could be it's a Anglicization of the original term (both in spelling and usage).

And why are so many future German nations just a faded copy of the Second German Empire (1871 to 1918)? That is, if they aren´t a new Nazi empire... somebody should tell American SF authors and game designers that Germany has been a free and stable democracy for the last 56 years...

Well 2300AD is really late 19th c. in space so it would fit there. It's a matter of contrast to make nations stand out, because the Reichs are the popular image of Germany to most Americans, and because the uniforms are cooler. I think the later is the real reason.

So Germans wear pickelhaube and Austrians wear lederhosen while singing on hills.

There’s also the cliché that [distributed] Empires are the way to manage large political states in space. Though a German Reich is hardly the only model for such a system it’s a familiar one.

Do you notice the same trend for future Chinese nations in SF?

Seems to be so. I remember a Chinese poster on the Battletech forums lamenting that Chinese in space were seen in Battletech as unable/unwilling to change from the Confucian style Empire and oppressive government even after 1000s of years. Just like how Japanese are usually katana wielding Samurai in space. Don’t get me started on Celts in Space…

Offhand this is the sort of thing why when I played a 1/4 Japanese Traveller* she thought katanas were silly and outdated and samurai culture was stupid (baka buke!). Wakizashi was nicknamed wakawaka sword for example. She understood samurai culture and liked aspects of Japanese culture but I really tried hard as a player not to play a walking stereotype but a person.

I'm not fond of cookie cutter aliens or cultures.


* now the ex-Moot Jester Mayami Asuiti Huatian aka "Asu"

 

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Casey:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chaos:
I heard there was one ad slogan for Pepsi that translated as "Pepsi makes your ancestors rise from the grave". (I am told it was supposed to be "Pepsi comes alive")

In other worlds, I feel your pain.

Movie titles in translation can be pretty fun.

As for 2300AD's German IIRC it's more or less admitted at this point that it has some errors in the translations and there was some discussion on correcting errors (at least for German from what I recall) in the playtest for 2320AD.</font>[/QUOTE]Where do I volunteer as a language proofreader? (I´m serious - if that´s what it takes to get a product that doesn´t make make me go , I´ll do it)

Most Chinese words I've seen in rpgs usually come with a disclaimer at front saying something like "we went for what works to us and don't mean to insult anyone". Secondary sources usually use a mix of romanization and characters and any RPG writer is bound to have a muddle to choose from.

For both in game justification could be it's a Anglicization of the original term (both in spelling and usage).

With Chinese at least they have the excuse that it´s a completely different language. But IIRC about a quarter or so of English is derived from German, so it´s not like I´m asking for anything especially difficult.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And why are so many future German nations just a faded copy of the Second German Empire (1871 to 1918)? That is, if they aren´t a new Nazi empire... somebody should tell American SF authors and game designers that Germany has been a free and stable democracy for the last 56 years...

Well 2300AD is really late 19th c. in space so it would fit there. It's a matter of contrast to make nations stand out, because the Reichs are the popular image of Germany to most Americans, and because the uniforms are cooler. I think the later is the real reason.

So Germans wear pickelhaube and Austrians wear lederhosen while singing on hills.</font>[/QUOTE]I thought so. But the "lederhosen" thing, that´s the Bavarians. And it´s called "jodeln", not singing, although technically it is undistinguishable from what people do when they hit their thumb with a hammer.

There’s also the cliché that [distributed] Empires are the way to manage large political states in space. Though a German Reich is hardly the only model for such a system it’s a familiar one.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Do you notice the same trend for future Chinese nations in SF?

Seems to be so. I remember a Chinese poster on the Battletech forums lamenting that Chinese in space were seen in Battletech as unable/unwilling to change from the Confucian style Empire and oppressive government even after 1000s of years. Just like how Japanese are usually katana wielding Samurai in space. Don’t get me started on Celts in Space…

Offhand this is the sort of thing why when I played a 1/4 Japanese Traveller* she thought katanas were silly and outdated and samurai culture was stupid (baka buke!). Wakizashi was nicknamed wakawaka sword for example. She understood samurai culture and liked aspects of Japanese culture but I really tried hard as a player not to play a walking stereotype but a person.

I'm not fond of cookie cutter aliens or cultures.


* now the ex-Moot Jester Mayami Asuiti Huatian aka "Asu" </font>[/QUOTE]What is a "cookie cutter"? And what does "baka buke" and "wakawaka" mean?

 

[jcrocker]

Cookie cutter - you make the cookie dough, roll it out, and the cookie cutter cuts out all dough in the same shape that you bake into cookies.

They used to be used a lot more, now I think it's just at Christmas time - as a kid I remember 'helping' my mom make cookies with cookie cutters, we had a star, a Christmas tree shape, a gingerbread man, a couple others.

It's still used as an expression, 'to make many individual items all the same'.

The Japanese I can't help with, sorry.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Chaos:
Where do I volunteer as a language proofreader? (I´m serious - if that´s what it takes to get a product that doesn´t make make me go , I´ll do it)

Well I don't know if it's too late or not for 2320AD but it would (for the playtest at least) require signing up for a Moot membership. There seems to be some problems with that at the moment, my membership should have expired about 3 months ago now for example. I suggest PM'ing Colin (the 2320AD dude) about this.

With Chinese at least they have the excuse that it´s a completely different language. But IIRC about a quarter or so of English is derived from German, so it´s not like I´m asking for anything especially difficult.

True. I was responding to earlier posts about Chinese translations in RPGs since it's featured in part of 2300/2320.

I thought so. But the "lederhosen" thing, that´s the Bavarians. And it´s called "jodeln", not singing, although technically it is undistinguishable from what people do when they hit their thumb with a hammer.

Well most Americans associate lederhosen with the movie the Sound of Music, which has Austrians in lederhosen singing (not jodeln) on hills. ^__^ I remember reading about Franz Joseph liking lederhosen and in at least one picture. IIRC Austrians are the “other South Germans” along with Bavaria and both states have historically close ties.

What is a "cookie cutter"? And what does "baka buke" and "wakawaka" mean?

A cookie cutter alien refers to the usually standard practice of all members of an alien race depicted as being the same and thus very unrealistic. It’d be like saying all humans believe the same things, have the same goals, dress the same way, and so forth. I remember Babylon 5’s creator JMS specifically using the term as what he didn’t want to do with the aliens on his show and thus gave them differing factions, gods, dress, etc. . Sadly this is not the norm in terms of science fiction.

I used cookie cutters as a kid helping relatives make cookies (some old farming stock on my Mom's side meant good cooking using slightly older methods). It's very fun and gets kids involved in the cooking. Even the imperfectly cut cookies can be used or eaten on the spot.

Heh, I like wordplay and I find that Japanese lends itself well to that especially in pop culture where words are often shortened and mixed with versions of foreign words in a sort of rhyming line. Those are two examples that Asu might have used. Baka = idiot buke = a warrior in service to a lord. The character Asu’s opinion of samurai was that they were baka buke. Waka waka is a reference to Fozzie Bear from the Muppet Show.

Out of character that came from my complete inability to properly type wakizashi in game (and I also like The Muppet Show) but it also made sense in character.

They also kinda work as examples of what I'm getting at. Show that a character is part of a culture without being exactly like every other member of that culture and not just a stereotype. Their character, their goals, etc. is what should be prominent.

 

[Madarin Dude]

China I find in most games is still in the Qing dynasy or under Chairman Mao. There are aspects of each culture that are often not in the public mind that are really pervasive in their culture.

China is cooking and eating. Watch most Kung Fu films and there has to be a scene with cooking and eating. Watch Iron Monkey it gets to be quite funny. Fighing and eating. Chinese view food as important and have a different attitude abotu food. Soemthing like this. "Wow that is the worst tasting vegetable I ever ate." OK so we won't eat it as often. Chinese will eat food they really dislike.

I'm not Chinese I teach here in China. I have a Chinese computer though that switches languages in mid sentance.

Maybe it would be good to put in more observations about each culture here so we can get a bit closer to the truth. When they wrote the book they did nto have access to a resource like this.

 

[Random Goblin]

I got my free download! I've been meaning to sift through it whenever I get the chance.

 

[Colin]

If you have any issues with the translations, no matter the language, PM me. I can work the corrections in. I've already done several, but Heidelsheimat was never brought to my attention. FWIW, the French words have issues, too. Some of these I can change, but some I cannot as it would deviate too far from the original subject material.

Colin Dunn
2320AD writer and line editor