FUBAR's Question Pack

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Oh man!
It was much easier with the answer grandpa (a.k.a. far-trader

no offence meant *gg*)
gave. Good morning btw

But I think you might be right Thomas
a)'though the computer would have a gunnery rank equal to the model number cause a skill program cannot be greater than the model number (pg.231) or
b) you'd have to install (and buy

) a targeting computer mentioned on pg.282 for each turret (the volume is not greater than that of a human gunner at least on TL9) choosing the skill rank during construction.

In both cases you would not need "gunner interact" because you don't have a live gunner.

Oh man! I shoudn't do this shortly after waking up!

Any problems concerning my 1100 in the "morning" english or my interpretation of the (btw imho fantastic) rules should be postet right away *gg*

Thanks again for the help, i'm quite confident we'll sort this thing out

Have a nice weekend

 

[snrdg082102]

Afternoon (Your time I think?) & Morning (PST) F.U.B.A.R.,

Why install another dedicated fire/targeting computer?

My understanding, which began back in the 1980s, is that a turret Gunnery terminal/station already has a local computer installed as part of the system. I believe that somewhere in the Computer Design Sequence sectio of Chapter 12, I don't have my book handy, the author's mentioned purchasing a single copy of a offensive/defensive program and then making copies for the other weapons stations is cheaper than buying a copy for all stations. Of course this action may violate software copyright laws within the Imperium.

Originally posted by F.U.B.A.R.:
Oh man!
It was much easier with the answer grandpa (a.k.a. far-trader

no offence meant *gg*)
gave. Good morning btw

But I think you might be right Thomas
a)'though the computer would have a gunnery rank equal to the model number cause a skill program cannot be greater than the model number (pg.231) or
b) you'd have to install (and buy

) a targeting computer mentioned on pg.282 for each turret (the volume is not greater than that of a human gunner at least on TL9) choosing the skill rank during construction.

In both cases you would not need "gunner interact" because you don't have a live gunner.

Oh man! I shoudn't do this shortly after waking up!

Any problems concerning my 1100 in the "morning" english or my interpretation of the (btw imho fantastic) rules should be postet right away *gg*

Thanks again for the help, i'm quite confident we'll sort this thing out

Have a nice weekend

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by F.U.B.A.R.:
Oh man!
It was much easier with the answer grandpa (a.k.a. far-trader

no offence meant *gg*)
gave. Good morning btw

young whipper-snappers makin a racket so early in the a.m. what's goin on here that you gotta get me outta my rack fore the crack of noon on a Saturday

<grin>

Anyway a good evening to you (by now) F.U.B.A.R., and hi to you too Thomas Rux.

The way I read the computers on pp. 282-3 they are there to make custom vehicle design easier. That said I'd think given the small cost and size of the autopilot computer that it'd be a standard part of every spacecraft and starship, part of the Bridge displacement and cost. The targeting computer is a little trickier. I'd like to say its part of the cost of installing a weapon fixture (turret/barbette/etc.) but I'm not sure. The program selection does give you everything you need, including Gunner Interact for a manned turret and Gunnery skill for an automated fire turret, though I'm not sure how to interpret the total skill mod for the Gunnery row. Its a Model A6 so the max skill is 6, check. The ability to reference is Wisdom, check. For character's they would first have to have the Weapon Proficiency (Ship's Weaponry) feat, since this isn't listed I'll presume it was not an oversight but that machines can never be proficient so a non-proficiency penalty of -4 will apply, check? Then we add the computer model 6, check. That gives us:

+6 Gunnery Skill
-5 Ability, Wis 0
-4 No proficiency
+6 Computer Model

+3 Final hit mod (+2 more for Predict?)

or...

+6 Computer Model (the Gunnery skill is an error)
-5 Ability, Wis 0
-4 No proficiency
+2 Predict program

+0 Final hit mod


This fits the Computer Fire Control model on p. 162 a little better than your interprtation Thomas Rux (seemingly more correct in the other context) or my first thoughts (actually reverse engineered to get the rightish answer). I don't know, maybe I'm the one OTL now, at least I picked the right hour

Rant time...

The more I read this book the more I wonder if it was proofed at all. There seem to be so many internal inconsistancies. Some official, clear, step by step examples showing a wide variety of possibles would go a long way to clearing up the confusion and restore my waning enthusiasm.

Thanks again for the help, i'm quite confident we'll sort this thing out

Have a nice weekend

Hey you're helping too, but I wish I shared your confidence F.U.B.A.R. (given the graemlin that follows your statement maybe I do). I will endeavor to have a nice weekend, and a belated back at ya

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Far-Trader,

I have to admit that I have only looked at Chapter 12 and mostly at the computer design sequence, with the spacecraft and starship sequence second. My answer was based on how I understand the Computer Design Sequence (CDS) works and comparing that with the examples in Chapter 13 and the Main/Ship's Computer design listed in the Spacecraft & Starship Design sequence (S&SDS). My interpretation of Chapter 13 is that these are the common systems used in anything in the T20 Universe. Using the S&SDS you pretty much custom design the ship's main computer. However, the designs in Chapter 13 are supposed to be what is used on pp. 262-264.

With that said my analysis of the Software Table and the Gunnery program Skill Mod. lead me to the answer I gave here, which was incomplete apparently.

However, from the wording on p. 162 my impression is that either the computer Type/Model number or the Gunnery (Normal) PPCap/Skill number can be used. If a gunnery program is not used then the computer doesn't get the Predict bonus, which means Example 2 would not have Predict as a bonus. According to the text on Predict the +2 is synergy with the Gunnery skill. As I mentioned I have not looked at character generation or combat, so I do not know about all the ins and outs of determining the total bonus. Where can I find the text explaining proficiency? My understanding of the word a computer is more proficient at using the weapon within the program parameters set up by the software designers.

A little off topic:
During my study of the CDS I have concluded that the first 5 tables for computer systems are nothing more than the core, essentially a box holding the core, power supply, and the fittings used to connect the various systems in to the core. The autopilot and targeting computers are the closet to being complete systems, but they both lack control panels/terminals especially for the cores that cannot use verbal commands to operate or as backups incase verbal commands cannot be used.

I have a feeling I have now really confused the issue and gone off on a tangent so I guess I will run away now to unconfuse myself.

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by F.U.B.A.R.:
Oh man!
It was much easier with the answer grandpa (a.k.a. far-trader

no offence meant *gg*)
gave. Good morning btw

young whipper-snappers makin a racket so early in the a.m. what's goin on here that you gotta get me outta my rack fore the crack of noon on a Saturday

<grin>

Anyway a good evening to you (by now) F.U.B.A.R., and hi to you too Thomas Rux.

The way I read the computers on pp. 282-3 they are there to make custom vehicle design easier. That said I'd think given the small cost and size of the autopilot computer that it'd be a standard part of every spacecraft and starship, part of the Bridge displacement and cost. The targeting computer is a little trickier. I'd like to say its part of the cost of installing a weapon fixture (turret/barbette/etc.) but I'm not sure. The program selection does give you everything you need, including Gunner Interact for a manned turret and Gunnery skill for an automated fire turret, though I'm not sure how to interpret the total skill mod for the Gunnery row. Its a Model A6 so the max skill is 6, check. The ability to reference is Wisdom, check. For character's they would first have to have the Weapon Proficiency (Ship's Weaponry) feat, since this isn't listed I'll presume it was not an oversight but that machines can never be proficient so a non-proficiency penalty of -4 will apply, check? Then we add the computer model 6, check. That gives us:

+6 Gunnery Skill
-5 Ability, Wis 0
-4 No proficiency
+6 Computer Model

+3 Final hit mod (+2 more for Predict?)

or...

+6 Computer Model (the Gunnery skill is an error)
-5 Ability, Wis 0
-4 No proficiency
+2 Predict program

+0 Final hit mod


This fits the Computer Fire Control model on p. 162 a little better than your interprtation Thomas Rux (seemingly more correct in the other context) or my first thoughts (actually reverse engineered to get the rightish answer). I don't know, maybe I'm the one OTL now, at least I picked the right hour

Rant time...

The more I read this book the more I wonder if it was proofed at all. There seem to be so many internal inconsistancies. Some official, clear, step by step examples showing a wide variety of possibles would go a long way to clearing up the confusion and restore my waning enthusiasm.

Thanks again for the help, i'm quite confident we'll sort this thing out

Have a nice weekend

Hey you're helping too, but I wish I shared your confidence F.U.B.A.R. (given the graemlin that follows your statement maybe I do). I will endeavor to have a nice weekend, and a belated back at ya

</font>[/QUOTE]