far-trader
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No problem
Fuel Purification Plant
- Thread starter Supplement Four
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No problem
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I thought it was very cool. Probably the best handwave for how the M-Drive works that I've seen.
The scope doesn't have to be so big that it appears on deckplans, you know. What if it's the size of a baseball, with the grav shell making it the size of a basketball. It could fit between decks. You might have an access hatch and the ventral and/or dorsal deck from it.
It could be set in a wall, or a support pylon, or whereever.
It's only function is to give the T-Plates a better "steering" mechanisim. It provides something to "push against".
And, remember, the strength of the gyro/grav isn't so strong that it remains still as the T-Plates provide thrust. What it does is provide the "boat" for the engine to push. The T-Plates easily overcome the strength of the scope as they do their work, pushing the ship.
The scope is used as leverage to point the ship in a particular direction, that's all.
I really don't think it's a bad description at all.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I thought it was very cool. Probably the best handwave for how the M-Drive works that I've seen.
The scope doesn't have to be so big that it appears on deckplans, you know. What if it's the size of a baseball, with the grav shell making it the size of a basketball. It could fit between decks. You might have an access hatch and the ventral and/or dorsal deck from it.
It could be set in a wall, or a support pylon, or whereever.
It's only function is to give the T-Plates a better "steering" mechanisim. It provides something to "push against".
And, remember, the strength of the gyro/grav isn't so strong that it remains still as the T-Plates provide thrust. What it does is provide the "boat" for the engine to push. The T-Plates easily overcome the strength of the scope as they do their work, pushing the ship.
The scope is used as leverage to point the ship in a particular direction, that's all.
I really don't think it's a bad description at all.
Upon further reflection, it might theoretically be possible for a 1G vessel to gain escape velocity off a Size 8+ world with the aid of a brief rocket-assist (or *cough* a mass driver *cough*). It is not necessary for the vessel to make escape velocity on the initial takeoff; it only needs to reach a speed/altitude (a/k/a/ "energy") sufficient to have an over-the-horizon (probably "other hemisphere", but I'll need to fire Mathematica up over the weekend to check the calculations) return trajectory.
Then one simply executes a series of hyberbolic orbital passes using the regular m-drive, applying thrust each time to swing the orbit apogee a little higher with each swoop. Since there's little or no atmo, all you have to do is thrust with a slight lateral component as you plunge downward, and nudge yourself just over the horizon each time; drag won't be a problem, and if it is, just convert it to lift with an attitude adjustment [ahem].
Eventually, one last death-defying swoop will give you escape V, and off you go into the black.
"It's so crazy, it just might work!"®
I call dibs on royalties from any and all Xtreme Sports that may result...
A technique for landing on a Size 8+, Atmo 3- world with only a 1G drive still remains, alas, elusive... but you never know what engineers will come up with -- remember the YMC-130H Hercules and how that turned out...
Upon further reflection, it might theoretically be possible for a 1G vessel to gain escape velocity off a Size 8+ world with the aid of a brief rocket-assist (or *cough* a mass driver *cough*). It is not necessary for the vessel to make escape velocity on the initial takeoff; it only needs to reach a speed/altitude (a/k/a/ "energy") sufficient to have an over-the-horizon (probably "other hemisphere", but I'll need to fire Mathematica up over the weekend to check the calculations) return trajectory.
Then one simply executes a series of hyberbolic orbital passes using the regular m-drive, applying thrust each time to swing the orbit apogee a little higher with each swoop. Since there's little or no atmo, all you have to do is thrust with a slight lateral component as you plunge downward, and nudge yourself just over the horizon each time; drag won't be a problem, and if it is, just convert it to lift with an attitude adjustment [ahem].
Eventually, one last death-defying swoop will give you escape V, and off you go into the black.
"It's so crazy, it just might work!"®
I call dibs on royalties from any and all Xtreme Sports that may result...
A technique for landing on a Size 8+, Atmo 3- world with only a 1G drive still remains, alas, elusive... but you never know what engineers will come up with -- remember the YMC-130H Hercules and how that turned out...
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Remember earlier in the thread when we were speaking about the Escape Velocity rule, and I was citing different places it's popped up?
I mentioned an article that Andy Slack wrote for White Dwarf magazine. I said that he was making a house rule for something he perceived was an official rule in CT--more evidence of the Escape Velocity rule being canon.
Well...
As it would have it, his article was about the exact same thing you mention above.
Yep. His article suggests "boosters" be available at some class starports in order to help the 1G vessels get off the planet.
Co-inky-dink.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Remember earlier in the thread when we were speaking about the Escape Velocity rule, and I was citing different places it's popped up?
I mentioned an article that Andy Slack wrote for White Dwarf magazine. I said that he was making a house rule for something he perceived was an official rule in CT--more evidence of the Escape Velocity rule being canon.
Well...
As it would have it, his article was about the exact same thing you mention above.
Yep. His article suggests "boosters" be available at some class starports in order to help the 1G vessels get off the planet.
Co-inky-dink.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
THAT is frightening!
Desperate indeed.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
THAT is frightening!
Desperate indeed.
But t-plates only create more problems: they require huge massive gyros which critically affect ship load distribution and become a heckuva hazard should a bearing seize, they provide no explanation of acceleration compensation, and they yield no micrometeroid or cosmic ray shielding.
Using some variation of a Mach-principle-manipulating field effect keeps it simple, at least for the big craft.
In their defense, t-plates are probably related to the 0-to-2G "floor fields" (or "ceiling fields", if you stop to think about it) which stick stuff to the floors of spacecraft. Plus, you know, repulsors are not a field effect. Small craft and regular grav vehicles might use t-plates in some form, since such vehicles don't require computer-operated engines nor enjoy acceleration compensation...
But t-plates only create more problems: they require huge massive gyros which critically affect ship load distribution and become a heckuva hazard should a bearing seize, they provide no explanation of acceleration compensation, and they yield no micrometeroid or cosmic ray shielding.
Using some variation of a Mach-principle-manipulating field effect keeps it simple, at least for the big craft.
In their defense, t-plates are probably related to the 0-to-2G "floor fields" (or "ceiling fields", if you stop to think about it) which stick stuff to the floors of spacecraft. Plus, you know, repulsors are not a field effect. Small craft and regular grav vehicles might use t-plates in some form, since such vehicles don't require computer-operated engines nor enjoy acceleration compensation...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I thought it was very cool. Probably the best handwave for how the M-Drive works that I've seen.
The scope doesn't have to be so big that it appears on deckplans, you know. What if it's the size of a baseball, with the grav shell making it the size of a basketball. It could fit between decks. You might have an access hatch and the ventral and/or dorsal deck from it.
It could be set in a wall, or a support pylon, or whereever.
It's only function is to give the T-Plates a better "steering" mechanisim. It provides something to "push against".
And, remember, the strength of the gyro/grav isn't so strong that it remains still as the T-Plates provide thrust. What it does is provide the "boat" for the engine to push. The T-Plates easily overcome the strength of the scope as they do their work, pushing the ship.
The scope is used as leverage to point the ship in a particular direction, that's all.
I really don't think it's a bad description at all. </font>[/QUOTE]It could be the size of golf ball too, if you don't mind waiting years for it to turn the nose of you ship a couple degrees.
To be useful it has to be:
Massive. Certainly significant enough to rate a small percentage of deckplan/design volume.
Powerful. As in the mass is kept turning while braking is applied to it to orient the ship. Which means power, yet oddly, no power requirement mentioned either. Maybe the Engineer pedals it up whenever it's needed.
Nope, I don't like it much. I think it was invented purely as a contrived way of making a cool story for The Old Man. Didn't he have some harrowing tale of a gyro knocked out of it's cage and tearing through the ship? Or maybe that was from somewhere else. I don't recall.
Point is some tiny gyro won't work for the Free-Trader, and even if it did there is still the issue of finding a constant center of mass on the ship.
I like much of the SOM, but there were a few things that didn't fit, like this gyro idea.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I thought it was very cool. Probably the best handwave for how the M-Drive works that I've seen.
The scope doesn't have to be so big that it appears on deckplans, you know. What if it's the size of a baseball, with the grav shell making it the size of a basketball. It could fit between decks. You might have an access hatch and the ventral and/or dorsal deck from it.
It could be set in a wall, or a support pylon, or whereever.
It's only function is to give the T-Plates a better "steering" mechanisim. It provides something to "push against".
And, remember, the strength of the gyro/grav isn't so strong that it remains still as the T-Plates provide thrust. What it does is provide the "boat" for the engine to push. The T-Plates easily overcome the strength of the scope as they do their work, pushing the ship.
The scope is used as leverage to point the ship in a particular direction, that's all.
I really don't think it's a bad description at all. </font>[/QUOTE]It could be the size of golf ball too, if you don't mind waiting years for it to turn the nose of you ship a couple degrees.
To be useful it has to be:
Massive. Certainly significant enough to rate a small percentage of deckplan/design volume.
Powerful. As in the mass is kept turning while braking is applied to it to orient the ship. Which means power, yet oddly, no power requirement mentioned either. Maybe the Engineer pedals it up whenever it's needed.
Nope, I don't like it much. I think it was invented purely as a contrived way of making a cool story for The Old Man. Didn't he have some harrowing tale of a gyro knocked out of it's cage and tearing through the ship? Or maybe that was from somewhere else. I don't recall.
Point is some tiny gyro won't work for the Free-Trader, and even if it did there is still the issue of finding a constant center of mass on the ship.
I like much of the SOM, but there were a few things that didn't fit, like this gyro idea.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It's not the gyro that turns the ship. It's the thrust from the T-Plates. All the gyro does is give the ship a pivot point.
Heck, the ship can be set on the head of a flagpole if the flagpole could take the weight.
See, without the gyro, the T-Plates push the ship, but there is no direction control.
Put a small gyro in there, and you've got a pivot point. The angle on the T-Plate thrust is what actually turns the ship. The gyro is just the axis.
I'd agree with you about the gyro if it were actually used to turn the ship. But, that's not is purpose.
The best example I think of is someone floating in a pool. The swimmer in the pool can turn on his own (T-Plates). But, if the swimmer can touch and push off a buoy, he can use his own power to turn much quicker.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It's not the gyro that turns the ship. It's the thrust from the T-Plates. All the gyro does is give the ship a pivot point.
Heck, the ship can be set on the head of a flagpole if the flagpole could take the weight.
See, without the gyro, the T-Plates push the ship, but there is no direction control.
Put a small gyro in there, and you've got a pivot point. The angle on the T-Plate thrust is what actually turns the ship. The gyro is just the axis.
I'd agree with you about the gyro if it were actually used to turn the ship. But, that's not is purpose.
The best example I think of is someone floating in a pool. The swimmer in the pool can turn on his own (T-Plates). But, if the swimmer can touch and push off a buoy, he can use his own power to turn much quicker.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I was pretty sure the description had something about braking mechanisms applied to the spin of the gyro to actually change the orientation of the ship?
That would be an entirely different beasty from some wee navigation gyro.
I'm looking for my SOM to check
That would be an entirely different beasty from some wee navigation gyro.
I'm looking for my SOM to check
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I was pretty sure the description had something about braking mechanisms applied to the spin of the gyro to actually change the orientation of the ship?
That would be an entirely different beasty from some wee navigation gyro.
I'm looking for my SOM to check
That would be an entirely different beasty from some wee navigation gyro.
I'm looking for my SOM to check
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