gauss rifle stats

[Liam Devlin]

Hmmm..the Bolt-action idea. Lemme rethink this now:

The rifle and pistol versions magazine contains the battery for the 'charge' to fire it down the magnetically ringed barrel...

Well, We have A, AA, and AAA batteries nowadays. We have thoe small watch batteries as well..Wouldn't be hard come to think of it to make a oneshot battery with a 4mm round, like the caseless ammo, the 4mm round/flechette contained within the 'battery', or at the end of it by TL-12. The battery discharges/or is consumed, round goes down range...

One could even see a Gauss revolver for that matter; or the makings of belt-fed VRF gauss machine guns? Hmmm...Not a bad way to go about it.

 

[Icosahedron]

Hmm, I already use air rifles in my ships locker as survival weapons. It's useful to carry a thousand rounds of safe and waterproof ammo in your pocket.

However, I like the gauss rifle idea since you can make/remake your own ammo when you eventually run out without worrying about a precise calibre match - if you can smelt Copper. You also have few, if any, moving parts to wear/jam.

I'm pretty sure today's AAA bateries can put out more energy than a 10 minute hand crank, so by TL12, I would imagine a battery round would be entirely feasible, but if you have access to batteries, the standard magazine battery would be cheaper and easier.

You could reduce the muzzle energy somewhat and still have a useful survival weapon, you don't need to penetrate armour with it - anyone want to calculate the minimum?

You could try a solar or wind charger as an alternative to a hand crank, or link a windlass directly to a dynamo - Gauss crossbow, anyone?

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Alternately, a moderate efficiency hydrocarbon engine can provide that much energy with half a gram of fuel (which is less than the weight of food required for the human to provide that much energy).

What this means is that there is no real reason to bother with human-powered survival weapons.

You need to provide human food anyway, but the production of quality hydrocarbon fuel for your gauss rifle generator engine would in itself require human energy input, unless you happen to have an inexhaustible supply with you?

You also have the problems associated with engine breakdowns.

When you are shipwrecked on a relatively barren world, simplicity is best.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
Hmm, I already use air rifles in my ships locker as survival weapons. It's useful to carry a thousand rounds of safe and waterproof ammo in your pocket.

Good on you Icosahedron

Some of us here had a great little discussion (or two) about air rifles and their utility a while back on these forums. A search for "air rifles" should find it if you're interested.

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
However, I like the gauss rifle idea since you can make/remake your own ammo when you eventually run out without worrying about a precise calibre match - if you can smelt Copper. You also have few, if any, moving parts to wear/jam.

The few moving parts is a good reason but I imagine there's still some wear. But, I think the tolerances of gauss ammo is tighter than that of an air (or other) rifle. Heck a little work with the right primitive tools and you can cast lead (presuming a source of lead of course) shot for an air rifle, or grind stone shot if you must, maybe even settle for a load of pebble shot for small game. I recall experimenting with various pebbles, gravel and sand in my old air rifle. Range sucked

All as far as a simple survival weapon goes of course.

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
You could reduce the muzzle energy somewhat and still have a useful survival weapon, you don't need to penetrate armour with it - anyone want to calculate the minimum?

You could try a solar or wind charger as an alternative to a hand crank, or link a windlass directly to a dynamo - Gauss crossbow, anyone?

I was thinking both the same things, together they should do the trick. A small battery good for a few shots at a time, a recharger of some kind to energize it when not in use. Nice thing about the gauss weapon is the ability to dial the power setting. So you are plinking small game at close range you dial it down and get several shots. Then you find some large game at long range you dial it up for range and penetration/damage. I do kind of like the idea of a gauss survival carbine for several reasons, I'm sure we can make it work!

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Anthony:
The traditional figure I recall is a 4mm/4g projectile at 1500 m/s. That works out to a muzzle energy of 0.5 * (0.004 kg) * (1500 m/s)^2 = 4,500J. Assuming 50% efficiency, that would be 9,000J input.

Thanks

A human can reasonably provide 9000J of energy in 5-10 minutes with a hand crank, maybe 2 minutes with a foot crank. Alternately, a moderate efficiency hydrocarbon engine can provide that much energy with half a gram of fuel (which is less than the weight of food required for the human to provide that much energy).

So five to ten minutes with a hand crank, or two minutes with a foot crank. Assuming a capacitor to store energy for a few shots at a time, you could be cranking away for hours
Better off with a crossbow

What this means is that there is no real reason to bother with human-powered survival weapons.

I agree.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
However, I like the gauss rifle idea since you can make/remake your own ammo when you eventually run out without worrying about a precise calibre match - if you can smelt Copper.

I thought the ammo has to be ferrous?

And speaking of the ammo, wouldn't the darts have to be streamlined and ballanced to perfection to prevent them from going completely off course at the velocity of a gauss round?

I'm pretty sure today's AAA bateries can put out more energy than a 10 minute hand crank, so by TL12, I would imagine a battery round would be entirely feasible, but if you have access to batteries, the standard magazine battery would be cheaper and easier.

Good point.
By TL12 your survival cloths themselves will probably be designed to generate an electric charge from your movement, and store it in a capacitor for later use.
Add solar cells to the fabric, and some method of changing body heat to electricity, and your cloths become your power source.

 

[mike wightman]

One more thing - the TL of a gauss survival rifle.

In the OTU the gauss rifle is specialist troops only at TL12, common to most troops at TL13.

So a civilian weapon should be TL13/14 minimum.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:

However, I like the gauss rifle idea since you can make/remake your own ammo when you eventually run out without worrying about a precise calibre match - if you can smelt Copper. You also have few, if any, moving parts to wear/jam.

Regrettably, you're wrong about both. Two fundamental issues with gauss weapons are (1) extreme mechanical precision is required for ammunition design, and (2) you have high speed electrical switches which are difficult to build or maintain and can go out easily.

To be perfectly honest, a conventional firearm is a great survival weapon. The ammo can be made highly resistant to environmental degradation, and the weapon is extremely durable.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I thought the ammo has to be ferrous?

Er, you could be right there, Sigg.

That will raise the necessary TL of the party from low to high TL1.

And speaking of the ammo, wouldn't the darts have to be streamlined and ballanced to perfection to prevent them from going completely off course at the velocity of a gauss round?

To some extent, but a survival carbine will not need the velocity or range of a battlefield weapon. I wouldn't imagine its tolerances would need to be better than a crossbow quarrel, or pistol bullet at the ranges your ship purser is going to stumble across a wallaby.

By TL12 your survival cloths themselves will probably be designed to generate an electric charge from your movement, and store it in a capacitor for later use.
Add solar cells to the fabric, and some method of changing body heat to electricity, and your cloths become your power source.

Not sure about this one. The human body generates very little power in normal movement, I doubt whether it would be cost-effective to collect it. A small wind turbine and solar panel would be cheaper, more durable and more powerful IMO.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Regrettably, you're wrong about both. Two fundamental issues with gauss weapons are (1) extreme mechanical precision is required for ammunition design, and (2) you have high speed electrical switches which are difficult to build or maintain and can go out easily.

(1) I suppose this depends on the differences between a TL12 Gauss Rifle and a TL6 linear accelerator. I recall messing about at college with a few hundred turns of wire round a tube. Drop a headless nail in one end and it made a fair mess of a dartboard when it came out the other.
How much precision is really necessary for a survival gun? Maybe this would reduce the necessary TL?
(2) Aren't most TL7/8 high speed switches solid state electronic?

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Good on you Icosahedron

Some of us here had a great little discussion (or two) about air rifles and their utility a while back on these forums. A search for "air rifles" should find it if you're interested.

I'll look that up, thanks.

The few moving parts is a good reason but I imagine there's still some wear. But, I think the tolerances of gauss ammo is tighter than that of an air (or other) rifle. Heck a little work with the right primitive tools and you can cast lead (presuming a source of lead of course) shot for an air rifle, or grind stone shot if you must, maybe even settle for a load of pebble shot for small game. I recall experimenting with various pebbles, gravel and sand in my old air rifle. Range sucked

Ouch! I bet the barrel liked that stuff!
I suppose it all depends on wadding.
Of course, with a supply of lead and a decent pellet mould, you should get reasonable ammo for decades.
Not sure about the tolerances, I thought the idea behind the gauss rifle was the ammo didn't need to touch the sides?

Nice thing about the gauss weapon is the ability to dial the power setting. So you are plinking small game at close range you dial it down and get several shots. Then you find some large game at long range you dial it up for range and penetration/damage.

I hadn't thought of that. Is that buried in canon somewhere, or your own take on it?

I do kind of like the idea of a gauss survival carbine for several reasons, I'm sure we can make it work!

Hope so, but if the anti-gauss squad makes it too hard, we've always got the air rifles.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:...I recall experimenting with various pebbles, gravel and sand in my old air rifle. Range sucked

Ouch! I bet the barrel liked that stuff!</font>[/QUOTE]

I was young and curious. Now I'm old and curious

Gauss tolerances are tight because of the need for a close proximity to the field in the barrel (but yes without touching) I think. Actually come to think now they might not be any tighter than conventional weapons though. Maybe even be a little looser I suppose with no need to maintain barrel pressure, in fact an open barrel is probably better.

As for the dial-in power, perhaps I'm stretching the idea a bit. It's from the explanation in FF&S1 for TNE iirc where the weapon is described as supersonic but to fire it subsonic and thereby (sound) suppressed all you do is select a lower power input level.

 

[daibaka]

Love all these great ideas. Regarding the survival gauss carbine, I always understood the gauss needle to be suspended in the barrel by the magnetic field that fires it. I suppose, depending on the exact tolerances needed for straight, level and accurate flight for the desired range, that that particular factor could give you some room to maneuver when making your own ammo. As long as the aerodynamic profile is correct, you wouldn't need to be quite as picky about the exact calibre of the round. In fact, if you weren't bothered about range, you could probably get away with just hacksawing off a bit of steel bar of the correct diameter and length to fit in the reciever. As for switches, who says they need to move? Surely by TL13 they should have solid state devices capable of switching that kind of power? And in any case, the round is accelerated up the barrel to its terminal velocity so surely you wouldn't want to be dumping all that power instantaneously, rather releasing it gradually (but still quickly)?

If you want a battery or power source for the weapon instead of a manual dynamo, why not use thermocouple technology? You have your powerpack and rifle. It needs charging so you can go out and bag a few tree cats or what have you for the pot tomorrow night. You just throw a couple of extra logs on the campfire, throw in the powerpack and in the morning its all charged and ready to go after converting heat energy of the fire to electrical.

Of course, if you really wanted a weapon that had no moving parts, you'd use a ruggedised laser carbine with a solar charger or thermocouple powerpacks (or both). It could be a completely sealed unit with no moving bits (even the trigger could be piezo electric) and given the tech levels we're talking about, the materials used in its construction would enable it to be used as club and not interfere with its operation. Of course, I don't know how much power we'd be needing to find this time, but it bears thinking about.

Someone mentioned a gauss crossbow above - isn't that essentially what the gauss rifle is anyway? By the way, I have absolutely no problem with regular firearms and I know that even modern ammo is pretty rugged stuff, but you have to go some to beat the simplicity of a steel needle. Besides, the name of the game is science fiction - some people like it grim and gritty, I like my ray guns! This has been a fascinating topic so far and I look forward to how it may develop.

 

[Border Reiver]

Survival laser I like, consider it borrowed.

Now where's my copy of 3G3?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Survival Laser rifles: Canon reference to a Challenge magazine adventure set in TNE, after GDW's World Builder's handbook came out--

Players land on "virgin" world (had previous been very low pop, (2) & TL-12, with a former IISS base but everyone had died out when Virus crashed everything below TL4 to TL3. Resulting die off, lack of medicines and infrastructure. The world was a near water world (Hydro8 or 9).

Players land on Isalnd searching ruins of IISS base looking for what happened, & the usual shtuff, looking to colonize-a basic survey and search job.

Their sole opponent (no major hostile megafauna to contend with beyond birds and a few small grazers) is the last descendant of these Scouts, his laser rifle (TL-14), and a pocket-sized Solar charger for the built in power cell for it (good for 10 shots, recharges with Sunlight in 1hour (clear days), 2 hrs (partly-mostly cloudy days), & 3 hours (with heavy overcast/ rainy days) days. Good for ten shots at amaximum power (4 damage die), or 2x number of shots (20) that at 1/2 power (2 damage die); and 4x shots(40) at 1/4 power (1damage die ).

The carbine and the recharger are the sole two surviving tech relic artifacts on the planet. There are only two islands. Your opponent lives on one, the IISS base's island is the other, and he canoes/ or swims here to hunt for game, and keep the sacred dead buried here inviolate (my memory is foggier than usual tonight).

So yes, they existed, yes they were used, and yes, IISS issued them.

 

[daibaka]

Heh, I must have that Challenge somewhere, so maybe the idea popped up subconsciously. I know my idea for the thermocouple powerpacks was probably sparked by a bit of Warhammer 40,000 fiction someplace, but I have no idea what or where. Probably a "Gaunt's Ghosts" extract or something. But as a survival weapon, a laser carbine/rifle seems to be the best bet, as long as you have some means of recharging it. And as long as the atmosphere doesn't interfere with the beam. A persistently misty or foggy environment might prove tricky.

One thing that interests me from the survival weapon point of view for both gauss and laser is finding other means of recharging powerpacks. Thermocouple tech, solar rechargers and manual dynamos are all methods that could be used, but what other ways could exist? What would be the most reliable method you could find in a survival situation? Or a combination of methods, which would be more likely given the variety of environments that exist in the OTU?

 

[Anthony]

The most reliable way for a survival weapon to recharge would be to give it an integral RTG, which would trickle 10W or so into the battery, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for decades.

 

[daibaka]

RTG?

 

[Anthony]

Radio-thermal generator (or possibly some other form of radio-isotope battery). It's basically a power plant that uses radioactive decay to power it. They last for decades.

 

[Jame]

So, I take it that my idea for

(a.) the civilian gauss rifle (single shot, no bayonet lug, no grenade launcher attachment, comes in bolt-action or in self-loading, damage 4d but less penetration and range than the military model)

and (b.) the sporting version (selective fire for either one or three shots/pull, bayonet lug for higher price, grenade launcher attachment with license, 4d damage and same performance as the military model)

meet with approval?