get me started.

[oldcolt]

Originally posted by MJD:
And of course, 'core rulebook' does not necessarily mean d20 Modern.

My 2 cents worth:
If you have never played a rpg before, I would recommend you buy a wizards (WOC) core rulebook.

I also recommend if you are going to buy a WOC core rulebook to go with T20, buy the WOC's Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook (SWRC)(it is also d20):
1) SWRC simply deals with the future more than D&D 3rd ed or d20 Modern
2) SWRC's vitialty/wounds system very similar to T20's stamina/lifeblood system.

 

[DrGoon]

Just to put paid to the high prices quoted, it's worth noting that the D&D 3e core books are $21 at amazon.com and the D20 Modern and Star Wars ones are $28. You don't need them, but if you can afford the cash, they're pretty decent publications, with great layout and art. I'd also suggest the Star Wars one - it has some nice stuff in it, and it's a fun read.

 

[FANTASYFAN1968]

Without getting into the controversy over pricing, etc., I would have to go with the T20 system. I find it very playable, and true to the "feel" of CT. I will also, however, admit to using alot of G:T material as source stuff.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by LCDR J. R. Sinclair III:
I will also, however, admit to using alot of G:T material as source stuff.

Who isn`t

Especially since it`s one of the few Traveller lines still in print (barring T20 and CT)

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by plop101:
Isn't it amusing that everyone likes to compare their new version of Traveller with CT. Makes one wonder why we don't use it to begin with...

Likely for the same reason I play D&D3E now instead of any other D&D/AD&D version. It keeps the flavor without some of the kludginess of the older mechanics and fills in a lot of gaps.

That and it likely works well as a marketing tool since IIRC CT sold the most compared to other versions of GDW Traveller.

FWIW, I like Gurps Lite a lot. Though I like BESM better. Gurps sourcebooks are some of the best, regardless of the system you use.

Re: d20 core books, I personally think a d20 Core book is required to have been read/be handy for at least one person in the group. And frankly d20 wouldn't have been made in the first place if a core book wasn't required at some point. It would have remained totally closed.

I have both Gurps 3rd revised (and several copies of Gurps Lite I got for free by having my FLGS order them) and three d20 core books (D&D3E, CoC d20, and d20 Modern) so

.

Casey

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by DrGoon:
<snipp> it's worth noting that the D&D 3e core books are $21 at amazon.com and the D20 Modern and Star Wars ones are $28.

I've been thinking of picking up SWd20 2nd edition and the central planets book. However I've not read it and d20 Modern is the latest d20 core book. It certainly is easier to understand than my first printing of D&D3E and I'm not going to buy 3.5. (hence why I refer to d20 Modern when I need to clarify something in T20) That and I still have my Star Wars d6 books.

FWIW, Amazon has Gurps Basic and Gurps Traveller as well ($21 and $20). However I prefer to get my RPG books through my FLGS to help keep them in business. Still it's a good source if you don't have a FLGS nearby, are strapped for cash, or just like a good deal.

EDIT: Also Amazon often has decent previews of the inside of a book.

Casey

 

[Uncle Bob]

If you play D20 D&D, T20 is for you. If not you will find it convoluted and confusing. You don't have to buy D20 Modern, but if you haven't spent a couple of months memorizing it you do need to buy the D&D Players Handbook. The main reason for going with T20 is the resevoir of players who know D20 and won't play anything else, but if you don't know D20 you may be at the the mercy of your players.

I don't know GURPS very well.

i say stay with classic Traveller, if you know it. It may be a spare 2nd generation system with bolt on rules, but D20 has embraced D&D's intricate tapestry of conflicting patches, poorly concieved fixes, and confusing special rules. It is offensive to those of us who thought a game shouldn't be more complicated than Advanced Squad Leader. T20 is a bit better than D20, but it still has the evil heritage.

 

[robject]

Dude, you have the CT "Little Black Books"? Then you've got everything you need. Everything else is supplemental (useful, but supplemental).

I'm only half joking. If you stick to the original Traveller material, I don't think you'll be disappointed. Plus, have a peek at the (free!) Traveller 5 playtest material on-line.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

My Lords,

I play Gurps, d20, and CT, and for my credits, CT is still the king, for the aspect that it is a rock solid foundation on which you can base ANYTHING you wish, what? Modules and Supplements are all fine and dandy to the completist, but a good ref should be able to stand on his own without them. I certainly enjoy T20, warts and all, and am looking forward to some more products in future. I enjoy reading modules and whatnot, but using them feels like painting a picture that someone has painted before. The most glaring (and confusing) example of this had to be Star Frontiers' "2001: A Space Odyssey" I mean, how do you play that?

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Well Sir, It all depends.

I played many a fine game with the 'deluxe set' (three black books and a map of the spinward marches)

The Traveller Book was equally fine.

Since my only regular gaming group is a 3e D&D group. I found converting to t20 to be no problem.

However, I probably would have bought the t20 book anyway just because I'm a traveller addict.

Um.. inshort. You can start playing right away with what you've got and decide what you need in the future.

If you DO go with T20 (I LIKE it, and the new material the sponsor of this site is producing AND that's an unsolicited plug) I do reccomend that at least one person in your gaming group get a core D20 rulebook. Star Wars is an excellant suggestion. I went with the D&D 3e PHB because of my Gaming group but...

(BTW as Librarian for my local gaming group I campaigned to have multiple copies of the PHB put in our library just so members could buy whatever D20 product they wanted to try without having to punt $30 Cdn for a what amounts to about 3 pages of tables.)

 

[jappel]

Uncle Bob reflects on D20:

It is offensive to those of us who thought a game shouldn't be more complicated than Advanced Squad Leader.

Well now, I playtested ASL for quite a few years (and got my name on a leader counter in Doomed Battalions), and I've yet to see anything in D20 Modern / T20 as bad as the old human wave rules. Or the effort to get the rules for the Danish motorcycle-mounted AT gun down to something smaller than the Manhattan phone book.

The bottom line for me is that both GURPS and T20 are inherently more complex than CT. There's a lot more 'chrome' in both systems, particularly (IMHO) regarding character customization. I suspect that the usual "90/10" rule applies, i.e. that 10% of the rules will cover 90% of the situations, and the other 90% of the rules cover the 10% of exceptional circumstances.

One key differentiator: T20, coming from D20, incorporates the concept of character level progression. The Lifeblood mechanic (among other things) helps minimize the impact of this, but it's there, and some people have a visceral reaction to it one way or another.

John

 

[Hecateus]

Greetings,
I too am new here. Was about to post a similar question as original poster...but noticed tis thread.

My main difference, is I have already invested in T20, but know didly about the Traveller milieu. (milieu=background meta setting universe stuff)

See ya around,
Hec

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

One thing I -have- noticed about T20. As a long time Traveller Fan -I- understand how some of the complicated bits in the THB work but newbies seem to develop headaches.

I believe there have been several threads on the subject about the time the THB first came out (fall of 2002) most of them in the T20 section of the forum.

Until the gateway sourcebook comes out your Options for Traveller fluff (which is what I presume you wish to learn about) are limited to non T20 products.

First there's Classic Traveller (CT): The original Traveller game was intended to be a generic Sci Fi RPG. the 'Three Black Books' that compromised the core rules for that system came out in the late 70's. Game Designer's Workshop built a whole Millieu around that system which included strategy board games and Minatures rules for Mercenary battles all linked by the 'Fluff' or fictional history of the world. They also released a bunch of supplements and adventures which described more of the Traveller universe using either a very wide brush (Gazeteers,Library Data, Alien Modules) or a somewhat more specific one (Twilight's Peak/Secret of the Ancients)

Getting your hands on this stuff isn't hard if you have the cash. This very forum is supported by a company that distributes reprints of all of the above plus copies of the Journal of The Traveller's Aide Society.

In the mid-eigties GDW advanced the timeline of the game about 5 to 10 years. (The game was set in 1120 while most recent adventures until then were dated no later than 1115 -- more on Imperial Dating further on.)

With this advancement they introduced 'upgraded' Rules and a new Millieu. The 'Shattered Imperium'
The monolithic empire that had lasted for 1120 years was breaking up into civil war.

This game system is refered to as MegaTraveller or MT.

Things get worse. The Traveller universe collapses in to a new dark age. And some civilisations begin clawing their way out of it. Again the rules were updated, This time converted over to match that of another GDW product. Stats, skills and much of the rules were changed to a new system entirely. This 'Next Gen' system became known as Traveller the New(next?) Era

or TNE

GDW had finacial troubles but Marc Miller, the Creator of Traveller kept the rights to his game and Imperium Games produced Traveller 4th edition or T4, people familier with late add-ons to CT or with MT would recognise this system. I didn't mind it as a supplement to my existing CT stuff but there were issues with.. um.. quality control.


Then Came GURPS Traveller, (GT) and Traveller for the D20 system (T20)

you'll see mention of other GDW classics in these pages from time to time. Traveller 2300 (which is a completely different universe) and Twilight 2000 (a post-apocalyptic military settting.)

er... Hope this helps. This should at least give you an understanding of some of the acronyms we throw around on these pages.

Can you tell me a little more about what you want to know? IS it more about the fluff of the Traveller Universe? There's volumes of stuff out there. It's probably one of the most documented fictional future histories I've ever seen.

The year for T20 in AD terms is somewhere around 5000 (yes three millenia from now.. or Durn Near) and Marc Miller and those who have written with his permission have worked hard to fill out the what happened for most of those millenia.

A book I found useful was MegaTraveller's Imperial Encyclopedia. The old CT 'Library Data' and 'Alien Module' Books were good too.

hmmm... again before I info dump more than the buffers can hold. What specifically did you want to know?

 

[Hecateus]

Garf Wrote:
"What specifically did you want to know?"

For me nothing much specific; I am still slowly plowing through the four hundered pages

But what desire generally are advice about thebest source books and web sites ...many already mentioned.

Thanks for the information folks.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by jappel:
Uncle Bob reflects on D20:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It is offensive to those of us who thought a game shouldn't be more complicated than Advanced Squad Leader.

Well now, I playtested ASL for quite a few years (and got my name on a leader counter in Doomed Battalions), and I've yet to see anything in D20 Modern / T20 as bad as the old human wave rules. Or the effort to get the rules for the Danish motorcycle-mounted AT gun down to something smaller than the Manhattan phone book. John </font>[/QUOTE]Mea culpa. I shouldn't post after midnite. ASL is in a class by itself. I should have said "a game shouldn't be more complicated than Squad Leader."

Plain old Squad Leader had a rule set quite complicated enough for me, thank you. And even with the Eastern and Western front modules it was still comfortably smaller than D20 and the essential supplements.

 

[mad13142000]

But what desire generally are advice about thebest source books and web sites ...many already mentioned.

I think the G:T sourcebooks are some of the best...I don't play Gurps, and don't claim to understand it, but the sourcebooks are excellent.
The question is, what interests you in Traveller?
If it's trading, exploring, mercs, or just general wandering around, this will decide which stuff you're looking for...

As far as web pages, there are many...
http://seegras.discordia.ch/Roleplay/Traveller/
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/elvwood//Traveller/index.html
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~ngc5139/FDA/index.html
http://zho.berka.com/
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/index.html

There's probably a hundred more...
Once again, it's all about what you're looking for...
-MADDog

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

My Primary complaint abot T20 is the Byzantine Vehicle Design System, which seems to be a derivative of the Megatraveller (start to finish yick, IMHO) system. It seems incongruous with the Starship Design system to me, and way too gearheady... In my quest for understanding it, I found myself doing cost breakdowns for hours... about Headlights! Although I can't think of any vehicle design system I would call "smooth" on a good day... Perhaps ... Champions?

I ask for those cost-minded among you, (such as myself) Why even bother buying a book of "d20" when Wizards has all the stuff you need online? The art is nice, sure, but if I can get "just the facts" for nuthin... which is not to say that I dont enjoy my d20 Modern book tremendously, what?

 

[mad13142000]

I don't know, Baron...
I would have bought T20, put instead of putting down $44 for it, I bought some CT stuff on Ebay instead...No judgement, just thought I needed support stuff a lot more than a new core rules set. If T20 wants to put out the volume of sourcebooks like GT, I'll buy them just like I bought all that GT stuff. I just don't need a new set of rules when I already own CT, T4, and TNE.
(The TNE was what got me started - a book in the clearance bin...Then T4 when it was out, and CT when they were reprinted...I'd like MT, just for the tasks, but I'm not going to plunk down my hard earned $$$s when there is so much other stuff I NEED) Thus the BEAUTIFUL T20 book lost out on my list...
-MADDog

 

[Hecateus]

"Thus the BEAUTIFUL T20 book lost out on my list..."

but it makes such a great blunt weapon...

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Hecateus:
but it makes such a great blunt weapon...

Or a shield, rentry tile, keeps your other RPG books in line, enforces the GM's authority...

Casey