Getting the U.S./Yanks out of our sci-fi

[BytePro]

I think the OP needs to get out more often...

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2011/sci-fi
http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2012/sci-fi
http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2013/sci-fi

Sure, Military themed movies - all around, not just Sci-fi - are more relevant in the U.S. given the last decade. A large percentage of Americans now know at least one person who has served in the Middle East - to marketers that makes for a demographic that would associate with military themed entertainment (i.e. a hook).

But the OP's premise is factually flawed - there are a lot of Sci-Fi movies that have absolutely nothing to do with the U.S. military... heck, even several that have no military or war theme at all (not a lot, mind ).

[That last one on the list for 2013 Sci-Fi sounds real interesting... ]

 

[Khan Trav]

Seems like there is a bit of us bigotry going on. We read or watch what we do because we like it. Some of it happens to be US in origin but the most awesome sci-fi in history was created in the UK and even though I am a yank, I happen to love Red Dwarf.

He has an IQ of 6000?

It has a 6 in it but its not 6000..

What is it then?

6...

No mere yank could have come up with that gents..

 

[madmike]

There is a great indie milSF novel called "Through struggle the Stars" by John Lumpkin.

Pretty much most nations have extra solar colonies and police those with military starships and troops.

Most space navies have carried their wet navy rank and organisation structure into space. Except the Aussies, who decided the RAAF should be the organisation running starships and that includes rank structure (Stargate SG1 used USAF ranks for starship crew ranks). A great book with a sequel out soon.

Personally, I am not worried. If there is to be a unified military in the future, then those military forces, whether they are navy, marine or terrestrial troops (army) will draw on the bigger terrestrial based military traditions as the model for the new unified commands.

Perhaps the marines might draw from both the US and Royal Marine traditions, whilst the navy might well be Royal Navy traditionalist.

I would much rather read military SF (and I read a lot) with rank structures I can relate to completely new rank systems that I need to get my head around. Detracts from the story

 

[BytePro]

Red Dwarf FTW!

Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

 

[Blue Ghost]

...zombies will never die.



Bad pun intended Though, even I'm starting to tire of the (mis-)treatment of the genre


...by the way Blue Ghost, I took the liberty of editing the title, I think I got the intent right, yes? Or should it be something else?

Thanks far-trader

 

[far-trader]

You're very welcome Blue Ghost

 

[aramis]

Hi,

I guess I probably didn't make my point too well, but what I'm trying to say is that had they been "EU Colonial Marines' or "UN Colonial Marines" or "NATO Colonial Marines" I kind of doubt that much anything (other than maybe the language spoken or, as you note, their unit patches, etc) would have changed.

To me even the mix of names and ethnicities shown could have just as easily been a European or multi-national group as much as it could be an all US group.

I guess another way of looking at this would be to ask, had they been some other group (say EU Marines, or UN Marines, or some form of United Earth Marines) what would you think would have been different about them?

except that European units are typically not so multi-ethnic. Whole units get seconded from national armies; it would be unusual for anyone but the Legion Etrangier or UK RM to have more than 2-3 ethnicities in a platoon.

 

[dean]

My bad. I didn't mean to say that they were all marines.

Speak French? No. Swahili? Maybe. Seriously, I remember a few years prior to Halo's release we were discussing Dyson Spheres and rings on this very BBS, and on another BBS I was cranking out classic Trek fiction where the crew represented various nationalities and ethnicities a-la Trek. It's easy to cross circuit and pull ideas from one genre to another, but I think back then we weren't talking on this BBS in terms of military themed campaigns and adventures, so much as discussing various settings and iterations of Traveller's settings.

Military themes are cool. I mean, who doesn't like a big gun fight at some point. But sci-fi is more than just troops and ray guns, right?

With the "French" comment I intended to infer that they "speak" English, because if they didn't, reading all those subtitles would truly suck.

Ever read Starship Troopers? You find out in the end of the last chapter the guy is black and from South America/Puerto Rico. Remember, this book was written on a typewriter not too long after WW II and before the civil rights movement. Heinlein did this on purpose, because after you get through the whole story, and you really sympathize and are rooting for this protagonist. Then this "bomb" drops and viola! A lot of people who read the book may very well have put it down due to prejuducial thinking if that info had been presented on the first chapter.. In the novel, almost all the names of the ficitonal ships and places were Anglic. You'd thought you were reading about a good old American boy with immigrant parents living in Cleveland. Anyway...

I'll presume you never played these games because frankly, everyone is in full armor and you have no idea about the race or nationality of the troops. And yes, the voice overs are in English, but several have accents, implying a mixed force.

And finally, being a film guy yourself you know that conflict, being seemingly integral to the human psyche, is at the heart of any good story. Throw in some aliens whose mental and psychological processes are dissimilar (at best) to ours, and that's a story straight out of human history.

 

[Timerover51]

While the focus seems to be on films, I have read a lot of science fiction by non-US authors, including one of the first, Jules Verne. The early authors that made the genre were pretty much all European, with H. G. Wells, A. C. Doyle, and of course, A. C. Clarke. I also like A. Bertram Chandler, who is Australian. I am not that big a fan of military science fiction in the sense of pure military. I do like H. Beam Piper.

 

[Timerover51]

With the "French" comment I intended to infer that they "speak" English, because if they didn't, reading all those subtitles would truly suck.

Ever read Starship Troopers? You find out in the end of the last chapter the guy is black and from South America/Puerto Rico. Remember, this book was written on a typewriter not too long after WW II and before the civil rights movement. Heinlein did this on purpose, because after you get through the whole story, and you really sympathize and are rooting for this protagonist. Then this "bomb" drops and viola! A lot of people who read the book may very well have put it down due to prejuducial thinking if that info had been presented on the first chapter.. In the novel, almost all the names of the ficitonal ships and places were Anglic. You'd thought you were reading about a good old American boy with immigrant parents living in Cleveland. Anyway...

I'll presume you never played these games because frankly, everyone is in full armor and you have no idea about the race or nationality of the troops. And yes, the voice overs are in English, but several have accents, implying a mixed force.

And finally, being a film guy yourself you know that conflict, being seemingly integral to the human psyche, is at the heart of any good story. Throw in some aliens whose mental and psychological processes are dissimilar (at best) to ours, and that's a story straight out of human history.

I beg to differ, he speaks Tagalog, and reveres Ramon Magsaysay. That means he is Filipino. Not black but Asian.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I actually did play the first couple of Halos, but I never really understood what all the hubub was about. To me the guys who designed the thing just lifted ideas off the net, and I'll go out on a limb and specifically say the COTI was probably one of their primary sources.

When I played Halo I always saw the friendly NPCs with names and ranks hovering above them, just like in a big MP online server. The thing I noticed was the multi-ethnic/multi-nationality flavor of the crew.

To be honest, I wasn't too impressed with Halo because of the limits on the game design, the bad guys seemed like cartoon caricatures, the armor and just general theme struck me as a Traveller fan who didn't want to pay royalties to MM, so came up with his ATU, all the while pillaging the COTI and Traveller in general for concepts. I shrug at it. I'm a little more careful with my concepts these days.

Arghh....windows update wants me to restart. More later.

 

[Sturn]

Juan Rico is Filipino. But the same concept applies whatever non-white race he is.

Other novels have pulled the same racial flip at the end. I recall the novel of Bat-21 revealing the heroes' race only at the end.

When first reading Starship Troopers, I figured Juan/John Rico was Hispanic early on. This was wrong, but I only thought he was a white guy very early in the book. Rico, family connection to South America, Catholicism, made me think he was Hispanic way before the supposed reveal at the end.

 

[Ran Targas]

I kind of find the general tone of this thread slightly concerning; it seems the political under tones are being ignored by those who watch.

What is wrong with American science fiction? If you don't like, don't read, watch, or buy it. Don't translate it to your native language. Ignore it and continue to live in self imposed intellectual isolation. And I say the same to any ignorant American who discounts the fiction, movies, or art of any other country; it's foolish to think anyone outside your tribe doesn't have a novel idea or artistic merit. Just a bunch of nationalistic hogwash.

Americans (and Canadians as well) do enjoy the work of a plethora of fine scifi artists and an entertainment industry grasping at the next new thing; where the soil is sweet, the flowers will grow. unfortunately, so much of the new thing is often just a dusting off of an old thing. Complain about that if you will; I accept that, but not complaining that scifi devised first for an American audience and then for international consumption is too Amero-centric. That's like an American complaining about Dr. Who having a British accent or why Godzilla only attacks Tokyo. Just enjoy it for the moments of pleasure and wonder it brings and keep wishing you thought of it first!

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, but aliens thinking they can take over the world by attacking Tokyo with a monster...that really gets to me

 

[Lycanorukke]

Yeah, but aliens thinking they can take over the world by attacking Tokyo with a monster...that really gets to me

Well, to be fair, Tokyos alien monsters are slighter better than Power Rangers monsters (and have better dress sense)

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why Yanks need to get out of "our" sci-fi. I think what is causing my confusion is the whole "our" sci-fi. Didn't realize that sci-fi was owned by anyone.

Since 2000 there has been a number of movies that were not US-centric: District 9, District 13, The Matrix movies, The Fifth Element (yes, I know it is NYC, but very British), Aeon Flux, Hitchhiker's Guide, just to name a few.

Greg Bear may be American, but most of his stuff I've read isn't US-centric; Arthur C. Clarke's stuff isn't; David Drake, Stirling, Flint, et. al. don't seem US-centric.

The premise of this discussion is about as silly as the recent premise here in the states that because someone prefers the white meat of their turkey, they must be a racist.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

I have to admit that my thinking is probably a little along the lines of both Rooster Cogburn and Ran Targas above. I was originally put off a bit by the tone of the OP in that it seems to equate US with a militaristic viewpoint. As I've already stated in movies such as Aliens, it really seems to me that the Colonial Marines could have just as easily have been EU, UN, or some other organizations Colonial Marines, and I doubt that anything would have been any different. (And, over the next 150-160yrs or so between now and when the movie is supposedly set I wouldn't at all be surprised if there are many changes to what multinational groups may exist and/or how the may organize military units).

In the end then, I'm kind of assuming that the OP is more concerned with "military" themed sic fi stuff vs "non-military" themed stuff and maybe the thread should be recast as such if that was his intent, in order to keep the thread from veering into politics or broad generalizations about nationalities and ethnicity etc.

 

[BillDowns]

In the end then, I'm kind of assuming that the OP is more concerned with "military" themed sic fi stuff vs "non-military" themed stuff and maybe the thread should be recast as such if that was his intent, in order to keep the thread from veering into politics or broad generalizations about nationalities and ethnicity etc.

Yeah, I can go along with that. I would like to point out that the upcoming HALO movie is primarily a New Zealand production, and Farscape was Australian, Solaris was a French novel, so let's see, Star Trek? Yes, American production, but I really would not classify it as "Amero-centric".

 

[dean]

I beg to differ, he speaks Tagalog, and reveres Ramon Magsaysay. That means he is Filipino. Not black but Asian.

Thanks, the memory failed me. Regardless, the BOOK is in English.

Not because everyone was English-speaking (although I think that was mentioned), but because the audience of the book is/was.

 

[McPerth]

Thanks, the memory failed me. Regardless, the BOOK is in English.

Not because everyone was English-speaking (although I think that was mentioned), but because the audience of the book is/was.

And also because the author wrote it in English.

Don't forget in most books/films, the characters speak the language of the rest of the book/film, just to allow readers/viewers to understand them. So, in Hunt for Red October, Sean Connery spoke most of the film in English (or Spanish, or whatever language it was translated to), even though Ramius was assumed to be talking in Russian.