Good source for traveller ship ideas.

[Trent]

If you haven't got it, try to get a copy of the revolutionary RTS "homeworld" by sierra.

It had some flaws, like no time compression mode for resource gathering, but it also had a thick manual for the game that included an extensive background on the ships in the game, their technology, how they were designed and built, their weapons, etc.

It's not perfectly suited to traveller's tech, but is fairly close and could be a good source of ideas for traveller ships, tech, details on ship construction, etc.

Another good buy in the stand alone add on to homeworld, "Cataclysm" that has some good ship designs and tech notes as well.

Note that I'm not really plugging the games themselves, though there';s nothing wrong with either for traveller fans, but rather the books that come with them as sources of technical ideas for traveller games.

Avoid "Homeworld 2" which was a disappointment and a poor end to the otherwise excellent homeworld line. It's almost tragic that sierra ended the homeworld line on such a bad game, I would have liked to see a game in the homeworld universe that combined the space elements of homeworld with planet side action, perhaps one involving trying to get a fleet into orbit, then sending down your forces to fight a surface action with fire support from orbital assets. That game could have rocked.

 

[splicer]

Homeworld is nice. I picked up a copy + strategy guide for $10 a few years back on the used rack of a local video game shop. Sierra released the source code under a proprietary license (and not GPL), but IIRC the terms were along the lines of "don't charge for this." Because of this, the game now runs on Linux and Mac OS X.

There was an active mod community, back in the day, converting ships to B5, Star Wars, Original BSG, etc. Not sure there's much activity lately. I recently wondered if anyone tried to port any Traveller ships in, but I'm pretty sure no one has. As you say, the tech is a bit different (and it's 3D combat!), so I'm not sure how the grognards would feel about that. Anyway, one can play online so that's a plus. It is getting a little long in the tooth now; then again, folks still play Trillion Credit Squadron by post.

It really was fun watching one's squadron of spinal mount ion cannon frigates go to work on a target, I tell you what! (1)

1...Splicer wanders off to go root around in the closet for the game disk.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Splicer; the HW and HW2 servers are down for the count, I'm afraid. I reinstalled the game last year, and toyed with the first few missions.

It's a beautiful game. My online gaming buddy introduced me to it, and I was luke warm to it at first for a couple of reasons. Firstly the engagement ranges were scaled for game purposes. It was an RTS game, not a space combat sim. Secondly, I really wanted to command a single vessel or fighter, and not just be the grand master strategist.

Great story, great graphics, very respectable gameplay. I'm just also sorry that there weren't more factions, but that probably would've required a huge amount of graphics work.

 

[splicer]

...the HW and HW2 servers are down for the count, I'm afraid.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, dagnabbit!!

I really should stop getting into games after their prime.

Well, that was kind've a Traveller joke, but come to think of it -- I've got old a** MechWarrior II lying around here somewhere as well.

 

[splicer]

Ohhhh.. good news!

Homeworld 1 & 2 can be played over Hamachi. Don't know how to set up a server, but I see that it is being done.

Trent,

I know you didn't care much for HW2, but I see there's a mod community for it too; probably more active than for HW1. I never played HW2, but I do recall reading bad things about it (bloat, etc.). I know HW1 will work on old-ish computers, so that's definately a bonus. In any case, both versions will run on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.

Sorry to sort of hi-jack your thread. You wanted to talk about HW books as a Traveller resource. I may have to drop by the Fleet and start agitating them to build Traveller ships as a HW resource. :devil: (1)

1. Actually, I'd better be careful. If there's any interest at all, I might be volunteering myself for a lot of work. :nonono:

 

[Trent]

Well, as I said and as was apparently ignored I was really talking about how the technical details of ship construction given in the HW mainbook would be useful to traveller gearheads. it went into some detail explaining the conditions ships had to work under, what they needed to survive, etc.

I really wasn't pimping the computer game, tho I suppose the "hyperspace entrance" bit would work for jump drives too, and it kept the ship in transit for a while, not specified.

I don't want this thread closed for being OT, so please talk about how this relates to traveller in some ways?

BTW, good call on the frigates being "spinal mount weapon systems". I never really thought of the ion frigates being SM weapons. It makes you wonder if the traveller universe could use small ships with small spinal mounts in the same way....

 

[Supplement Four]

If you haven't got it, try to get a copy of the revolutionary RTS "homeworld" by sierra.

A couple of years ago, I posted some pics from Homeworld 2, positing, as you did, that they'd be good references for Traveller ships. (I think it was in Lone Star forum. You can do a search, if you like).

They even have the "Vayger", with strips on their vessles and no windows, just like the Vargr.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I seem to recall a variety of classes, which are standard for a lot of navies, but not adopted in Traveller as such.

I think Kushan and Taidan both have;
scouts (light fighters),
interceptors
light corvettes
medium corvettes
heavy corvettes
gun corvettes
salvage corvette
bombers
various frigates
destroyers (DD)
Missile destroyers (DDG)
cruisers (C)
carriers (CV)

I don't recall heavy or light cruisers, patrol craft, BBs (HW2) nor DNs.

I will say that I think the functional aesthetics of HW ships are a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff I've seen drawn for Traveller. But I'll also say that the art work for HW was inspired by the Stewart Cowley books published in 78 and 79, which I think everyone here knows were the fantastic sci-fi book cover art of the British si-fi artists circle.

I don't like the giant sphere that serves as an Imperial BB (or DN? I forget). But it is a bit more "original" than the Keith "homage" to Star Wars by drawing a Sylean Class BB as an almost near replica of an Imperial Star Destroyer.

The HW carriers, to me, look like what a real "space" carrier would look like, and I think make a fine inspiration for a Traveller aesthetic. Additionally, I like the fighter designs better than the standard Imperial "Rampart" class fighter. To me the Rampart looked way too much like something out of Flash Gordon, complete with sparklers flashing from the rear exhaust. Another fighter I liked were the Super Valkyries from Macross. A fine looking piece of machinery.

But, hey, if you look at all of it, even include the Bab-5 thread, the "Gundam" thread from a few years back, and everything else, it's all a matter of what your personal taste is. Put SU-27s in space and see how that works for your group. Or do a search for the MIG 434 Foxhound, and have a look at that baby Talk about your awesome looking space fighter.

But now I'm just rambling, and should really either be reading, writing, or gaming. Adios for now

 

[mike wightman]

I really like the Homeworld games - even Homeworld 2 which takes a bit of getting used to due to some control changes.

Some of the ships do indeed lend themselves to screen captures so you can say to players 'the ship coming for you looks like this'.

As a lover of ship-⌧ I really liked the game manuals and guides, and there were elements of the plot that could easily be adapted to Traveller scenarios.

 

[splicer]

BTW, good call on the frigates being "spinal mount weapon systems". I never really thought of the ion frigates being SM weapons. It makes you wonder if the traveller universe could use small ships with small spinal mounts in the same way....

Trent,

As soon as I saw them in action, it rekindled that old CT spark.

On the topic of small TU spinal mount ships, this site shows a Homeworld Ion Cannon Frigate at 13,000 tons:
http://homeworld.wikia.com/wiki/Sajuuk_Cor-class_Ion_Cannon_Frigate

And this page lists several High Guard designed 20,000 ton Strike Cruisers with spinal mounts from TL10-15, with the highest at meson N:
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/shipyard/strikecruiser.html

I have no idea how the tonnage for the Homeworld frigate was determined.

 

[Trent]

You know, just to go out on a limb here, and hopefully not to get the thread locked or me banned, I'd like to say that I think that the HW universe (Ignoring HW2) would make a great traveller variant universe, or a whole P&P RPG unto itself that would have hellappeal for traveller players.

The idea of playing a Hiigaran trying to secure the survival of his world and race in the days following the defeat of the taidani empire and the ceding of Hiigara to the returners would be interesting.

There'd be no end of things to do: Protect Hiigara, hunt down Taidani war criminals, locate resources, forge alliances, etc.

One idea I had for homeworld, the computer game, that could have translated into a RPG would be going back to the gardens of khadesh and inviting the hiigaran descendants living there to come back to Hiigara with you, despite the fight you had with them in homeworld. (Hey, those gits hiding in that nebula may have been frightened and paranoid enough to attack their fellows hiigaran descendants, but they were still your kindred and besides, they made some absolutely bitching ships, like those little multigun ion frigates. They may have looked like borg eggs, but I'd like to have them on my side.)

Likewise, I liked the bentusi and maybe they could play a role on a HWRPG. (And forget HW2 with it's "the bentusi all died out" crap that it never explained.)

You could do HW as a RPG with most traveller systems, and it's too bad that sierra is too dicky to let anyone make an official one. (I've dealt with sierra and they are dicks, guys. I bought HW: Cataclysm legally for christmas years back, and it wouldn't run on my system due to the "hourglass bug". Sierra's advice to me was to go buy a new CD drive. Turns out there was an easy fix for it but it disabled the anti-copy protection, so sierra would not release it and banned anyone on their forum mentioning it. I found the fix at a pirate site when I looked up "hourglass bug". It's damn sad when you BUY a game LEGALLY and have to go to the PIRATES to play it because the company tells you to get lost when you go to them for help.)

At times I wonder if anyone ever apporoached sierra for a license to do a HW P&P game, but either they didn't or sierra wanted 100% of the profits, total control and approval, etc....

 

[far-trader]

You know, just to go out on a limb here, and hopefully not to get the thread locked or me banned...

No worries about that for this Trent. I don't understand your concern. Please check your PMs.

 

[Trent]

Well, in all fairness, some mods here seem to get really uptight when anyone mentions a non-traveller game here, and in a sense I was rtalking about a non traveller game, albeit one close to traveller.

 

[Blue Ghost]

For all we know both factions are sub-empires within the Imperium

 

[splicer]

You know, just to go out on a limb here...

Trent,

I think it's going to be alright. The Lone Star sub-forum is the pub here, so IMHO semi-topical blather is probably expected.

I did see a post a few days ago that got someone banned, and swiftly, but the post broke several rules at once and seemed to be designed as a direct challenge to the moderators. I'd bet that your stated desire to play by the rules goes a long way with the mods.

I'd like to say that I think that the HW universe (Ignoring HW2) would make a great traveller variant universe, or a whole P&P RPG unto itself that would have hellappeal for traveller players.

The idea of playing a Hiigaran trying to secure the survival of his world and race in the days following the defeat of the taidani empire and the ceding of Hiigara to the returners would be interesting.

There'd be no end of things to do: Protect Hiigara, hunt down Taidani war criminals, locate resources, forge alliances, etc.

That's a very good ATU idea! And the polar opposite of what I was suggesting earlier. Lots of potential fun in such a campaign, and lots of Traveller rulesets to mine for ways to pull it off. The HW need for resource collection prompted me to take a look through the CT Module 2: Beltstrike rules and also reminded me that BITS: 101 Starships lists a ship, the Rori-class asteroid miner, which is capable of refining fuel and processing ore on board. Trillion Credit Squadron would be a big help here, too. One could play out the process of loitering in a system for the many months it takes to collect resources and build some ships (hint: make liberal use of planetoid hulls), fight some enemy fleet and hopefully win, fix up any captured ships, then jump to your next destination in greater strength to repeat the process.

I was thinking along similar lines for OTU ideas. The canon mentions many groups that have fled the rise or collapse of one empire or another. For instance, the history of the Sword Worlds: What might the warship Gram, and it's accompanying fleet, go through travelling across the Great Rift and into unknown reaches in their search for a new home? A less military example might be the fleet of Itzin merchanters who travelled across the stars, contacted a new race, and blended into its society, thus helping the Darrians acheive their pre-Maghiz glory. Who would they trade with? Who would they fight? How do they keep their ships maintained?

At any point in these scenarios, one could break away from the high-level stuff and into a low-level mode for role playing events.

They may have looked like borg eggs, but I'd like to have them on my side.

With some sausages, toast, and the bottomless cup of coffee, please.

 

[Trent]

I think some of the ships in the HW series would look utterly awesome in hires modeling mode, so that, f'rex, gun barrels didn't have to be square to accommodate real time rendering of large numbers of models.:rofl:

So a P&P rpg with hires models for ship illos would be sweet.

But man, would I hate to have to stat out the mothership. Jeez, something that big with trivial firepower, you think the fleet would have added some weapon pods to it.....

 

[Trent]

For all we know both factions are sub-empires within the Imperium

Well, really not as I'd say the tech in HW got to be higher than the tech in traveller, with "ion cannons" and "plasma bombers".

In cataclysm it got even higher, with energy shields, EMP bursts, combining ships, holofields, cloaks, etc.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Admittedly I only ever played the first installment, but what I saw didn't seem too uber for Traveller. Maybe a little on the dramatic side

But you do have a point about the Ion FFs. However, we don't know that the ion beam is a spinal mount weapon. It just appears to be that way. Field gens might be loosely related to black globes, though they don't flicker as such.

Just some quick thoughts.

*edit*; Plasma Bombers don't seem to be out of the realm of possibilities. HW doesn't really give an pseudo geek-speak (techno-babble) to explain the tech. It just is, like a lot of the other stuff in the game.

 

[splicer]

But you do have a point about the Ion FFs. However, we don't know that the ion beam is a spinal mount weapon. It just appears to be that way.

Blue Ghost,

Indeed. That was probably a poor choice of words on my part. "Appears to be" is a lot better.

 

[Hyphen]

I think some of the ships in the HW series would look utterly awesome in hires modeling mode...
But man, would I hate to have to stat out the mothership.

FWIW, there was a website around somewhere that does paper model starships - and yes, they had the Homeworld mothership available, among others.

"Paper Models"?

"Paper Starship Models"?

...or something like that.