GT Universe Only: GURPS Classic Traveller or Interstellar Wars

[Ezra]

I'm prepping a GURPS Traveller campaign to run weekly by virtual tabletop this year, but I'm torn between running GURPS Classic Traveller and Interstellar Wars.

I ran an Interstellar Wars campaign weekly for a year back in 2020. I like that the Interstellar Wars era still has unexplored sectors of space and is less "furry" for the most part.

The 3rd Imperium lends a more Asimovian far-future feel, which appeals to me as well, however. Moreover, GURPS Classic Traveller provides access to more deck plans for a greater variety of ships (a definite mark against Interstellar Wars).

Am I overlooking any other pros or cons to the two eras?

 

[mike wightman]

Use ISW.

If the players head into the Imperium you get to use all the classic stuff - the Vilani designs persist well into the Third Imperium era - and as you say gives you that far future feel.

Earth at the start of the ISW era is mostly TL8 with a smattering of TL9 - I'm using Traveller TLs here not the GURPS version - To the people of Earth it is akin to technothriller with jump travel.

The Ziru Sirka is a mature (stagnant) TL11 society, such a difference implies many magical technological wonders compared with the Earth primitives.

If unexplored space is the theme then just head off into the vast reaches...

 

[Ezra]

Use ISW.

If the players head into the Imperium you get to use all the classic stuff - the Vilani designs persist well into the Third Imperium era - and as you say gives you that far future feel.

Earth at the start of the ISW era is mostly TL8 with a smattering of TL9 - I'm using Traveller TLs here not the GURPS version - To the people of Earth it is akin to technothriller with jump travel.

The Ziru Sirka is a mature (stagnant) TL11 society, such a difference implies many magical technological wonders compared with the Earth primitives.

If unexplored space is the theme then just head off into the vast reaches...

Those are good points. It occurred to me after I read your reply that ISW is a major contribution GURPS made to the Traveller literature.

That said, how well do you think deck plans from other Traveller and GURPS Classic Traveller could be integrated into an ISW campaign? The ISW setting book provides 2 or 3 deck plans, but the lack of additional support for ships presents a drawback.

 

[whartung]

ISW is just flat out one of my favorite of all the Traveller books, from any edition.

 

[Vargr Breath]

This is COTI- the answer is to buy both.

 

[mike wightman]

Any of the original CT civilian and paramilitary ships that are TL11 or less are fair game to include.
Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidised Trader. Anything that is a Vilani inspired design in the Third Imperium was likely around in the First.

 

[Ezra]

This is COTI- the answer is to buy both.

I have both.

 

[Ezra]

Any of the original CT civilian and paramilitary ships that are TL11 or less are fair game to include.
Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidised Trader. Anything that is a Vilani inspired design in the Third Imperium was likely around in the First.

This is good advice. Thank you!

 

[daryen]

I would also recommend ISW.

Do note that Vilani tech level is a mature TL10, with the exception of medical science and their electronics limitations. They are not TL11. In fact, they never even make TL11 during the ISW time period. (I will just assume that you were accidentally using the Traveller TL, not the GURPS TL for that one.)

The Terrans start at TL9, move to TL10 after contact, then advance to TL11 to gain the edge necessary to win the war (among other lucky breaks). They also have limitations on medical science and electronics, but in a different way and less severe.

In the default setting (circa 2170) both sides are at a fairly uniform TL10 (with the exceptions listed above).

For all intents, in ISW, GURPS TL10 translates to Traveller TL11 (based on the limitation of J2); GURPS TL11 translates to Traveller TL12. I imagine outside the ISW time period, the GURPS TL levels would need to be rescaled to work correctly. But for ISW, this is how it breaks down.

(Using Traveller TLs, the Vilani are TL11 throughout the ISW. Their technology basically never changes. The Terrans start at early TL9 [when they get jump], quickly advance to TL11 by using Vilani tech to basically jump over TL10, and end the era with TL12.)

So, for ships, you can use any J1 or J2 ship you want. They should be close enough for RP purposes to work out, though you can always rebuild them using ISW if you want the numbers to work exactly. The deck plans, however, should probably be close enough to work without changes. (Honestly, they are probably wrong to start with; it isn't going to matter that much.)

 

[Spinward Flow]

Do note that Vilani tech level is a mature TL10, with the exception of medical science and their electronics limitations. They are not TL11. In fact, they never even make TL11 during the ISW time period. (I will just assume that you were accidentally using the Traveller TL, not the GURPS TL for that one.)

The Terrans start at TL9, move to TL10 after contact, then advance to TL11 to gain the edge necessary to win the war (among other lucky breaks). They also have limitations on medical science and electronics, but in a different way and less severe.

Actually I was just looking at the Vilani sector map and was struck by something I had never noticed before.

Vilani is a part of the Vilani Main ... that stretches for over 1000 star systems reaching into multiple sectors.
Terra ... only has the Outback ... 2 parsecs away ... and you need to transit multiple 2 parsec gaps in order to reach any of the mains elsewhere.

Basically, the Vilani could work with J1 starships quite happily due to their favorable location on one of the largest mains in Charted Space. By contrast, the Terrans were stuck with a remarkably "unfavorable location" on the map that put a much higher priority and imperative on building towards J2 capability to overcome the "tyranny of distance" in the region of space surrounding their homeworld. The Vilani could "afford" to stagnate at J1 just fine, because of their location, location, location on the Vilani Main. The same did NOT hold true for the Terrans, who effectively were "trapped" within what amounts to a minor rift (by comparison, given the tech levels involved) and thus had a tremendous incentive to advance their technology to reach J2 and overcome the "tyranny of distance" that their homeworld was located in.

Being limited to J1 wasn't that much of a hardship for Vilani.
Being limited to J1 was a pretty serious hardship for the Terrans ... simply because of the arrangement of stars on the jump map.

That kind of "adversity" then propelled the Terrans to exceed the limits of what the Vilani were perfectly happy to live within ... and the rest is (quite literally) history.

 

[kilemall]

Obviously Solomani supremacist propaganda!

 

[Spinward Flow]

Obviously Solomani supremacist propaganda!

How is an astrogation map of the location of stars in nearby space any kind of a supremacist propaganda item?
Vilani could (and still can) J1 chain their way through entire sectors (plural) before reaching a 2 parsec gap.
Solomani need to jump 2 parsecs just to get to the nearest star system.
That makes a difference in how much "pressure" a culture and society is going to feel towards researching more powerful jump capabilities ... with a rather large number of knock on effects.

 

[kilemall]

How is an astrogation map of the location of stars in nearby space any kind of a supremacist propaganda item?
Vilani could (and still can) J1 chain their way through entire sectors (plural) before reaching a 2 parsec gap.
Solomani need to jump 2 parsecs just to get to the nearest star system.
That makes a difference in how much "pressure" a culture and society is going to feel towards researching more powerful jump capabilities ... with a rather large number of knock on effects.

Humor, it is a difficult concept. It is not logical.
-Saavik

 

[Condottiere]

Commercial competitiveness, to bring goods to market faster.