GURPS Space 4th ed
- Thread starter chrisr
- Start date
G K Zhukov
SOC-11
Then you'll be quite happy if yoy get GURPS Space 4th Ed. Precisely the star system generation is fully re-done and is reportedly the most up-to-date system in any current RPG.
from what I heard, they ditched the "Gadget" portion (the ultra tech subset) and made it more campaign oriented.
you can download the system generation checklist as a PDF over on the e23 site. I have it someplace.
I really liked Space 3e but I'm not sure I need 4e. I ended picking up a few
of the GT books for $9.95 first (Sword Worlds, AR2).
I'll probably get it if I write something for JTAS and get "gurps bucks" for it. I've got a trio of adventures I'm 2/3rds done with.
Karl Green
SOC-1
De-lurking…
Yea, 4th ed GURPS Space is pretty cool, with the star-system generation and alien-generation stuff. It does NOT include much of anything on star-ships (except talking about different types of Interstellar and Inter-system drives), and no gadgets at all. That is in GURPS Ultra-Tech (which is also very nice BTW, with a lot of tech and some good stuff on how to have 'mixed-tech' level).
But Interstellar War is still the best (only?) option for the Starship stuff...
Yea, 4th ed GURPS Space is pretty cool, with the star-system generation and alien-generation stuff. It does NOT include much of anything on star-ships (except talking about different types of Interstellar and Inter-system drives), and no gadgets at all. That is in GURPS Ultra-Tech (which is also very nice BTW, with a lot of tech and some good stuff on how to have 'mixed-tech' level).
But Interstellar War is still the best (only?) option for the Starship stuff...
G K Zhukov
SOC-11
Apparently it will be augmented by the imminent (?) release of a series of pdf products written by David L. Pulver.
Britti_Lover
SOC-10
You now need Ultratech for all the fun gun stuff now.
It is amazing what is in Space now and what is completely missing.
Space has no Guns at all. Ultratech has pages of them.
Space 4th DOES have a fantastic system and planet creation system - very well detailed. The information on Space adventures is priceless.
Interestingly - for me the book seller was the information on running space games in Victorian times.
I do miss the Starship design and combat rules too. Oh well....
It is amazing what is in Space now and what is completely missing.
Space has no Guns at all. Ultratech has pages of them.
Space 4th DOES have a fantastic system and planet creation system - very well detailed. The information on Space adventures is priceless.
Interestingly - for me the book seller was the information on running space games in Victorian times.
I do miss the Starship design and combat rules too. Oh well....
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Qstor2
SOC-13
There's stuff in GURPS Steampunk and GURPS Mars which might help a lot too. Both books are well done IMHO. GURPS Mars has a lot of material if you don't have any of the old Space 1889 materials, if that's the type of campaign you're aiming for.
Mike
Britti_Lover
SOC-10
:rofl:
I have ALL of that material. And more - MUCH more.
I have ALL of that material. And more - MUCH more.
The first of these, GURPS Spaceships, with the ship construction combat rules, is out now, 70 pages for $9.95. A POD version is expected, given that it's selling like hot cakes.
As a non-gearhead, I like it - it's simple to use while still providing enough detail for me. Basically there are 20 slots to the ship, six each for front, middle, and rear, plus two in the core. The arrangement of outer systems allows for a simple "roll 1d" hit location mechanism in combat. There are a large number of modules you can add.
I haven't looked at the combat system in detail, but it does seem to focus on player action better than some I've seen.
One catch for Traveller is that everything is based on mass, not volume. There are some discussions going on on the SJ Games forums about how best to simulate Traveller rules (it doesn't seem to need much tweaking, though, just choosing the right settings for certain knobs and dials).
I want a chance to play with it some more before committing myself, but I reckon it's going to be well worth the money for me.
John
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4th Edition
4th edition changes alot of things, including the Tech Levels. 4th ed GURPS Traveller focuses on the Solmani/Vilani wars, with a core time of 2170. GURPS 4E Space has lots of nice things in it. Bottom line is that GURPS Traveller 4E will require a lot of work for those who don't want to play the new "standard" Traveller campaign. (Note: SJG created a who pamphlet for converting characters from 3E to 4E.)
So, whether it's worth it depends on how much time & effort you want to spend.
bibishar
4th edition changes alot of things, including the Tech Levels. 4th ed GURPS Traveller focuses on the Solmani/Vilani wars, with a core time of 2170. GURPS 4E Space has lots of nice things in it. Bottom line is that GURPS Traveller 4E will require a lot of work for those who don't want to play the new "standard" Traveller campaign. (Note: SJG created a who pamphlet for converting characters from 3E to 4E.)
So, whether it's worth it depends on how much time & effort you want to spend.
bibishar
I consider GURPS Space for 4th edition to be one on the best RPG buys I have made. But you have to be very clear what you are getting. This is not a replacement for GURPS Space for 3rd edition. The material formerly covered by 178 pages of GURP Space 3rd edition is now split up among GURPS Space, GURPS Ultra-Tech, and GURPS Biotech, at 240 pages each and the GURPS Spaceships series that is coming out in 70-page pieces. The new GURPS Space covers chapters 1, 2, 10, and 11 of the old GURPS Space, in about twice as much detail, plus which it has a chapter on designing aliens and a chapter on space adventures.
I positively salivate at the thought of how much background descriptive detail about a Space setting you could get into a 240-page GURPS world book now. There would be no need for weapon and armour tables, spaceship construction rules, space combat rules, equipment lists, etc., things that take up about half of GURPS Traveller You'd be able to take the first three chapters of GURPS Traveller and triple the coverage and detail.
The planet generation sequence is monstrously clever. You can work it forwards or backwards: start with the planet's surface characteristics and work out where it belongs in orbit; or start with where the orbits are and work out what is in them. But it does have problems. For a start, it is very detailed and rigorous, which makes it tedious. I never did work all the way through designing an entire system in every detail including the day length of every moon of every gas giant (though arguably this is unimportant detail anyway). And the order of operations could be better if you were planning to apply every rule to every object.
Worse, there are problems with the rules for moons and their effects. The formulas for tide heights and tidal braking are wrong and SJG refuses to amend them. The system places large moons in way too close, resulting in severe tidal effects (tidal locking of most terrestrial planets with moons). The rules for day length are screwy. The formula for calculating habitability takes no account of day length, resulting in excessively high habitability ratings for planets with very long or infinite days.
The tables produce demonstrably too many systems with gas giants in very close or highly eccentric orbits. Too many class M stars. Excessive orbital eccentricity in planets that are neither the innermost nor the outermost in their system. And the rules for the development of an oxygen atmosphere on eligible worlds are rather pessimistic. The result is that you can generate a lot of systems without getting very many that have habitable world in them. This ought at least to be easier to adjust.
So. I still call the star system generation sequence very good. Four stars, say. With a page of errata and notes on adjusting it to produce more habitable systems it could be a five-star product.
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Don't harsh too much on SJG staff for that one - they made me aware of the problem quite a while ago.
There are two major problems with the formulae as published, one easy to fix and one much harder to fix. Mostly it's waiting for me to find the time to work through some research and math and rewrite the pertinent section of the text. Unfortunately it's never risen high enough on my priority list to get done. Which is my fault, not theirs.
To be brutally frank, I don't much care whose fault it is. This is a product that I would love to give a glowing review to, but I can't fail to mention that it has a significant flaw, and no prospect of it being fixed anytime soon. It doesn't matter to a purchaser why that is.
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Certainly a reasonable position to take, and in fact I can't quarrel with anything in your review as a whole. I just wanted to correct an error in one of your statements of fact.
SJG is aware of the erratum, certainly hasn't "refused" to correct it, and will probably do so as soon as I get off my duff and tell them how to go about it. In fact, they've been pestering me about it regularly for quite some time now.
Britti_Lover
SOC-10
The material on Space Adventures and backgrounds is priceless and well done.
The origonal way we did Gurps Traveller was under GURPS Space. As in - GURPS Space: Traveller.
Needless to say, Traveller Alternate backgrounds were the norm:
The Imperium (also: Ziru Sirka and Grand Empire of Stars).
This is an ATU based on the GTIW alternate campaign: Imperials win the Interstellar wars.
The first major interstellar civilization since the collapse of the Ancients 300,000 years earlier, the First Imperium was politically and culturally dominated by humans originating on Vland. The jump drive was discovered on Vland in -9235 (4715 BC); immediately the Vilani discovered a number of interfertile and technologically primitive human races on worlds within 60 parsecs. These were gradually brought to a high-technology state with Vilani help and assimilated into a loose interstellar community bound by trade and common culture.
Eventually, the client races themselves explored beyond the local sphere, contacting and trading with still more races. These new races gained their technology without being assimilated into Vilani culture; the resulting increased friction eventually resulted in a series of wars beginning in about -5400 (880 BC).
In response to the threat, Vland began tightening its control of its trade sphere, and finally organizing it into a centralized state in -5272 (752 BC). This marked the beginnings of the First Imperium, although there was as yet no emperor. During the thousand year period of the Consolidation Wars, Vland conquered and absorbed its enemies until there were no longer any civilized states on its borders (except for a small portion of the Vargr Extents, isolated from the Imperium by the Windhorn Rift).
The last war ended in -4045 (AD 476), and the Vilani declared the establishment of an interstellar empire to govern all Vilani territory. Known as the Grand Empire of Stars or Ziru Sirka, Vilani dating begins at this point. The Ziru Sirka has lasted for nearly 5000 years and contains over 38 sectors and over 22,000 worlds.
As long as there was no exterior threat, the Grand Empire was safe; but gradually, despite all efforts, technology leaked across the borders. In -2422 (AD 2099), the Imperium was contacted along its rimward border by the Terrans, who had recently emerged into space. Terran expansionism led to a series of interstellar wars, which ultimately resulted in the Imperial conquest of Terra in the Fourth Interstellar War.
Terra is in a time of rapid technology increases, eventually resulting the invention of the jump-3 drive and the meson cannon. Terra is the tech level leader of the Imperium with its goods becoming galactic wide. Imperial stagnation comes to a halt and the Imperium begins a rapid incresase in TL evedntually ending in TL 12 across the empire. Only some backwater worlds on the edge of the Imperium are at a lower TL – as low as 9-10. FTL communication and Jump drives that can take you anywhere in the galaxy are in common use. Merchants now use jump-6 hydrogen drives due to the very low cost of operating.
An Imperial Admiral who is an ancestor to the current Emperor Strephon gets the meson cannon and jump-3 drive plans from the Terrans and outfits an Imperial fleet with the technology. This fleet goes to Vland and stages a coup that puts his family on the Iriduim Throne and begins the Charismatic Emperor line. This line of Emperors has now been ruling the Imperium for over 2,000 years. The Emperor is seen and loved by all in the Imperium and the royal family visits other worlds in the Imperium often.
Wars of conquest have expanded the Imperium to 22,000 worlds, the Vagrr extents and Solomani Sphere are completely within Imperial space now. Many Imperial Galactic Rangers keep the peace in the Vagrr Extents because this is where the most low tech worlds are found.
Terra is currently a garden world, TL-12. Terra was allowed home rule 100 years after conquest and became the sector capital 200 years after that. The Current Sector Archduke has a palace on Terra and calls Terra home. Luna is the home port of the major Imperial fleet of the area.
The main Imperial neighbor near Terra is the Aslan Hierate. For the Aslans, the cost of maintaining centralized control over thier empire is cultural rigidity. Aslan exploration has ceased with the beginning of the wars with the Imperium. Aslan scientific research has also slowed to a halt. The Aslans use a military hereditary caste system to rule their empire, Aslans are a warrior race.
Due to Terrian Scientists technology breakthroughs, all bio-tech, ultra-tech, space, etc, GURPS books are cannon material, along with any published Traveller material.
The origonal way we did Gurps Traveller was under GURPS Space. As in - GURPS Space: Traveller.
Needless to say, Traveller Alternate backgrounds were the norm:
The Imperium (also: Ziru Sirka and Grand Empire of Stars).
This is an ATU based on the GTIW alternate campaign: Imperials win the Interstellar wars.
The first major interstellar civilization since the collapse of the Ancients 300,000 years earlier, the First Imperium was politically and culturally dominated by humans originating on Vland. The jump drive was discovered on Vland in -9235 (4715 BC); immediately the Vilani discovered a number of interfertile and technologically primitive human races on worlds within 60 parsecs. These were gradually brought to a high-technology state with Vilani help and assimilated into a loose interstellar community bound by trade and common culture.
Eventually, the client races themselves explored beyond the local sphere, contacting and trading with still more races. These new races gained their technology without being assimilated into Vilani culture; the resulting increased friction eventually resulted in a series of wars beginning in about -5400 (880 BC).
In response to the threat, Vland began tightening its control of its trade sphere, and finally organizing it into a centralized state in -5272 (752 BC). This marked the beginnings of the First Imperium, although there was as yet no emperor. During the thousand year period of the Consolidation Wars, Vland conquered and absorbed its enemies until there were no longer any civilized states on its borders (except for a small portion of the Vargr Extents, isolated from the Imperium by the Windhorn Rift).
The last war ended in -4045 (AD 476), and the Vilani declared the establishment of an interstellar empire to govern all Vilani territory. Known as the Grand Empire of Stars or Ziru Sirka, Vilani dating begins at this point. The Ziru Sirka has lasted for nearly 5000 years and contains over 38 sectors and over 22,000 worlds.
As long as there was no exterior threat, the Grand Empire was safe; but gradually, despite all efforts, technology leaked across the borders. In -2422 (AD 2099), the Imperium was contacted along its rimward border by the Terrans, who had recently emerged into space. Terran expansionism led to a series of interstellar wars, which ultimately resulted in the Imperial conquest of Terra in the Fourth Interstellar War.
Terra is in a time of rapid technology increases, eventually resulting the invention of the jump-3 drive and the meson cannon. Terra is the tech level leader of the Imperium with its goods becoming galactic wide. Imperial stagnation comes to a halt and the Imperium begins a rapid incresase in TL evedntually ending in TL 12 across the empire. Only some backwater worlds on the edge of the Imperium are at a lower TL – as low as 9-10. FTL communication and Jump drives that can take you anywhere in the galaxy are in common use. Merchants now use jump-6 hydrogen drives due to the very low cost of operating.
An Imperial Admiral who is an ancestor to the current Emperor Strephon gets the meson cannon and jump-3 drive plans from the Terrans and outfits an Imperial fleet with the technology. This fleet goes to Vland and stages a coup that puts his family on the Iriduim Throne and begins the Charismatic Emperor line. This line of Emperors has now been ruling the Imperium for over 2,000 years. The Emperor is seen and loved by all in the Imperium and the royal family visits other worlds in the Imperium often.
Wars of conquest have expanded the Imperium to 22,000 worlds, the Vagrr extents and Solomani Sphere are completely within Imperial space now. Many Imperial Galactic Rangers keep the peace in the Vagrr Extents because this is where the most low tech worlds are found.
Terra is currently a garden world, TL-12. Terra was allowed home rule 100 years after conquest and became the sector capital 200 years after that. The Current Sector Archduke has a palace on Terra and calls Terra home. Luna is the home port of the major Imperial fleet of the area.
The main Imperial neighbor near Terra is the Aslan Hierate. For the Aslans, the cost of maintaining centralized control over thier empire is cultural rigidity. Aslan exploration has ceased with the beginning of the wars with the Imperium. Aslan scientific research has also slowed to a halt. The Aslans use a military hereditary caste system to rule their empire, Aslans are a warrior race.
Due to Terrian Scientists technology breakthroughs, all bio-tech, ultra-tech, space, etc, GURPS books are cannon material, along with any published Traveller material.
Rockdoc2010
SOC-5
system and star generation
I have a copy of ed 2 on hold for purchase. Glad I decided to chat with you guys.
I love MT starsystem generation but I recall that GURPS space added the Zenith element to its subsector generation routine.
This is the element I most desire for "realism" and I need to know which book will be the best?
I can get 2nd 3rd or 4th edition. All my other books are traveller, I only need an alternate system/subsector generation routine.
Selling rocks at Glisten Spaceport!:smirk:
I have a copy of ed 2 on hold for purchase. Glad I decided to chat with you guys.
I love MT starsystem generation but I recall that GURPS space added the Zenith element to its subsector generation routine.
This is the element I most desire for "realism" and I need to know which book will be the best?
I can get 2nd 3rd or 4th edition. All my other books are traveller, I only need an alternate system/subsector generation routine.
Selling rocks at Glisten Spaceport!:smirk:
