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Hard Space Redux

But that's getting pretty far afield from Omer's concepts of 'space travel is risky, space is deadly, and there's Weird Stuff out there.'

If there were terrible beasties all over the place out there then the perception of travellers would be different.

In some instances frequency is inversely proportional to scariness. That's not to say that common risks can't be scary, but if they're well known then travellers can plan on how to deal with them, to mitigate the risk they present, and so they're then not so scary.

If how Mythos "spells" was understood within the context of a modified field theory then they would lose their mystique as some great mathematicians became great sorcerers.

If Great Old Ones were actually discovered and could be sampled, biopsied and understood then they could be dealt with by authorities compelled to limit the damage they'd do if awakened or hungry.

So keeping that weird stuff out there on the fringes, whether of the settled worlds or the web or the Oort Cloud doesn't matter, can be important to maintaining the skein of unsettledness that is fun to have pervading these sorts of campaigns.

One options I've seen used is to have the players deal for a while with the consequences of what has happened before that involved the mysterious weirdness, with just hints of what the weirdness is. Travellers/PCs should have to work hard for the glimpse of that thing which rocks their understanding of How The Universe Works. That's not to say that it'd knock their sanity the same way it would for a nice 1920's first-world suburbanite, but if it's new and freaky and not entirely expected then a ref should be able to draw at least some good reactions out of the players.
 
That's good to read because...

... it sets up that bit of horror.

As they move out into first the Solar system and then other systems, humans are going to come across undeniable proof of aliens in the form of artifacts, ruins, and occasional encounters with live specimens. Even humanity's FTL drive is a side effect of the fumbling, "black box understanding only", use of recovered alien artifacts.

Humans are going find signs of a prior and present alien presence in the Sol system and in all the systems around Sol, so it's going to be logical to start looking for the same on Earth itself.
Indeed. Everyone now knows that there are Antediluvian ruins out there, even if they are poorly understood. Antediluvians by themselves, while marginally a horror element, are not a "deep" Mythos one, as they are, superficially, known. No one has to throw for Sanity when encountering Antediluvian ruins. However, within these ruins, especially the ones on the Fringe, there could be very, very alien things afoot. Things that force PCs to make Sanity throws.

But 2170's starfarers, unlike 1920's urban Americans, are less easily frightened by the alien. Alien life, and some of the related weirdness, is a fact of life. Horror is a deeper layer.

If there were terrible beasties all over the place out there then the perception of travellers would be different.
Yes, this will move the beasts from the "horror" category to the more ordinary "enemy" or "pest" categories.

In some instances frequency is inversely proportional to scariness. That's not to say that common risks can't be scary, but if they're well known then travellers can plan on how to deal with them, to mitigate the risk they present, and so they're then not so scary.
Indeed. Think of Event Horizon or Alien - no one has attempted a singularity jump or encountered a Xenomorph before. Aliens was less of a horror film, and more of a military sci-fi survival film, because the Xenomorphs were already known to a certain degree.

Of course, Hard Space will need somewhat frequent horror elements, as this is a core setting theme, but I will keep them in the fringes or related to them.

If how Mythos "spells" was understood within the context of a modified field theory then they would lose their mystique as some great mathematicians became great sorcerers.

If Great Old Ones were actually discovered and could be sampled, biopsied and understood then they could be dealt with by authorities compelled to limit the damage they'd do if awakened or hungry.
Exactly. This is why I was wary about computers being able to cast spells. Computers are logical beasts. If a computer can cast magic, then magic is logical. It can be analyzed and rationalized. And I don't want that.

So keeping that weird stuff out there on the fringes, whether of the settled worlds or the web or the Oort Cloud doesn't matter, can be important to maintaining the skein of unsettledness that is fun to have pervading these sorts of campaigns.

One options I've seen used is to have the players deal for a while with the consequences of what has happened before that involved the mysterious weirdness, with just hints of what the weirdness is. Travellers/PCs should have to work hard for the glimpse of that thing which rocks their understanding of How The Universe Works. That's not to say that it'd knock their sanity the same way it would for a nice 1920's first-world suburbanite, but if it's new and freaky and not entirely expected then a ref should be able to draw at least some good reactions out of the players.
Yes. There will be monsters to be fought, and tentacles to be severed, and alien maws to eat the hapless traveller, but there will always be a fleeting element to it - you can't just bring a tentacle of Cthulhu to a scientific convention and have the whole thing documented and quantified. Well, you brought that tentacle and some grainy recordings, but there won't be too much supporting evidence; and scientists are good in rationalizing things and doubting evidence.
 
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Indeed. Everyone now knows that there are Antediluvian ruins out there, even if they are poorly understood. Antediluvians by themselves, while marginally a horror element, are not a "deep" Mythos one, as they are, superficially, known. No one has to throw for Sanity when encountering Antediluvian ruins. However, within these ruins, especially the ones on the Fringe, there could be very, very alien things afoot. Things that force PCs to make Sanity throws.


I had assumed that to be the case because running the risk of having Ol' Squid Head eat your brain every time you jumped doesn't mesh too well with the amount of regular of FTL traffic the setting requires.

It's good that you took time to explain it however.
 
I had assumed that to be the case because running the risk of having Ol' Squid Head eat your brain every time you jumped doesn't mesh too well with the amount of regular of FTL traffic the setting requires.

It's good that you took time to explain it however.
Ol' Squid Head might come and eat your brain if you roll a critical misjump, caused by poor maintenance or jumping from far too close to a planet. Otherwise, jump travel is relatively "safe" and "routine".
 
The Expanse uses the Epstein drive - a super fusion torch that uses next to no fuel. It is not hard science.

I have had an idea that could make plasma rockets much more efficient - I call it the coronal engine.

One of the great mysteries of the sun is why its corona is way hotter than its surface - the smart money is there being a magnetic induction mechanism being involved.

So what if we use really powerful electromagnets to heat our plasma - we still need to learn the mechanism from studying the sun - and then chuck it out of the back of our rocket. We would need to use electromagnetic and electrostatic forces to contain and direct the plasma.

Outcome - much higher exhaust velocities, more efficient use of fuel, higher achievable thrust without the need for ship sized fusion reactors.
I wonder what kind of thrust this creates; are we talking about enough thrust for constant acceleration, or for part-way acceleration but relatively reasonable transit times?

Generally speaking, I want to think this over once more before I reach the verdict. My options are:

1. Fusion torch drives ala The Expanse and HOSTILE. More or less constant acceleration at approximately 1G. Shipboard fusion power. This means using HOSTILE-style fuel rules, i.e. 10% of ship hull per drive rating giving 100 hours of thrust. The advantage is that's simple (simpler travel equations due to constant acceleration/deceleration) and allows "tower" ships with thrust "gravity", as well as reasonably fast travel. It also seems to suit some of the source material (such as Alien and The Expanse) pretty well. The disadvantage is that it requires more handwaving.

2. Fission-based plasma drives. Potentially with the Coronal effect noted above. Thrust is limited; travel times are long; ships need spin gravity once they finish their "burn". The disadvantage is that it requires more complicated calculations for travel and fuel (that require abstracting), long interplanetary travel times, and more complex ship layout (using spin pods). The advantage is greater realism, plus making the players' life harder (as is the spirit of Hard Space).

What do you think?

EDIT:
This looks interesting:
http://www.projectrho.com/public_ht...Inertial_Confinement--Magneto_Inertial_Fusion
 
What do you think?


I'd go with the shorter burn - longer trip - spin gravity option for a few reasons.

First, it's different and as such will help place your setting apart from others.

Second, it (somewhat) dials back the various "Ships Are Weapons" problems. The "classic" maneuver drives in Traveller means ships are KKMs and fusion torch drives always lead to the "Kzinti Lesson". The murderhobo mindset is always lurking, so anything that works against it helps.

Third, much like how various rules versions have reduced in-system travel to jump limits and between planets to tables which takes into account distance, gees, and relative orbital positions like opposition or conjunction, you can create a similar tables which do the same takes into account burn lengths. A very small part of your player base may actually want to calculate Hohmann orbits and the numbers will still be there for them to do so. As for the rest, requiring them to deal with that level of detail will only result in the game will not be played and the setting not being used.
 
I'd go with the shorter burn - longer trip - spin gravity option for a few reasons.

First, it's different and as such will help place your setting apart from others.

Second, it (somewhat) dials back the various "Ships Are Weapons" problems. The "classic" maneuver drives in Traveller means ships are KKMs and fusion torch drives always lead to the "Kzinti Lesson". The murderhobo mindset is always lurking, so anything that works against it helps.

Third, much like how various rules versions have reduced in-system travel to jump limits and between planets to tables which takes into account distance, gees, and relative orbital positions like opposition or conjunction, you can create a similar tables which do the same takes into account burn lengths. A very small part of your player base may actually want to calculate Hohmann orbits and the numbers will still be there for them to do so. As for the rest, requiring them to deal with that level of detail will only result in the game will not be played and the setting not being used.
Of course, I will not require anyone to use such math - I am not proficient in it myself. Only use a table.

However, if travel time between local-system planets is longer than two weeks (jump+spool), then ships will initiate in-system jumps rather than travel there through real space...
 
Of course, I will not require anyone to use such math - I am not proficient in it myself.


I wasn't suggesting that you would or should. You, after all, did mention the use of tables.

I was pointing out that your concern over long interplanetary travel times was somewhat overblown. Players won't mind that a trip is long if they can determine the trip's length quickly. Once the length is known, they can decided how they want to deal with it; i.e. role play a few encounters/incidents or "ignore" it by stating "X days later you arrive at Y".
 
Of course, I will not require anyone to use such math - I am not proficient in it myself.


I wasn't suggesting that you would or should. You, after all, did mention the use of tables.

I was pointing out that your concern over long interplanetary travel times was somewhat overblown. Players won't mind that a trip is long if they can determine the trip's length quickly. Once the length is known, they can decided how they want to deal with it; i.e. choosing to role play a few encounters/incidents or "ignore" it by stating "X days later you arrive at Y".
 
I wasn't suggesting that you would or should. You, after all, did mention the use of tables.

I was pointing out that your concern over long interplanetary travel times was somewhat overblown. Players won't mind that a trip is long if they can determine the trip's length quickly. Once the length is known, they can decided how they want to deal with it; i.e. choosing to role play a few encounters/incidents or "ignore" it by stating "X days later you arrive at Y".
Exactly - just formulate a table.

However, if travel times between planets would be above 10-14 days, ships will simply jump between planets within the system, so if you want interplanetary "real-space" travel as part of your setting, travel times should be relatively short (e.g. a week or so from Earth to Jupiter), which requires fusion engines...
 
However, if travel times between planets would be above 10-14 days, ships will simply jump between planets within the system, so if you want interplanetary "real-space" travel as part of your setting, travel times should be relatively short (e.g. a week or so from Earth to Jupiter), which requires fusion engines...


You can split the difference by tweaking whatever limits you've placed on entering jump; bigger limits, more reason for "real-space" trips.

Whether the destination of an interplanetary voyage is in opposition or conjunction can be another way to "force" a "real-space" trip instead of a jump. For example, if Jupiter is in opposition to Earth, any jump attempts would not only have to reach a point which clears Sol's jump limit but also a point where Sol's limit does not preclude a straight line jump course to Jupiter.
 
I had assumed that to be the case because running the risk of having Ol' Squid Head eat your brain every time you jumped doesn't mesh too well with the amount of regular of FTL traffic the setting requires.

It's good that you took time to explain it however.

That sort of risk could be a good reason why everyone travels in coldsleep, or uses drugs as in C.J. Cherryh's Alliance Space, whenever they Jump or go FTL...
 
You can split the difference by tweaking whatever limits you've placed on entering jump; bigger limits, more reason for "real-space" trips.

Whether the destination of an interplanetary voyage is in opposition or conjunction can be another way to "force" a "real-space" trip instead of a jump. For example, if Jupiter is in opposition to Earth, any jump attempts would not only have to reach a point which clears Sol's jump limit but also a point where Sol's limit does not preclude a straight line jump course to Jupiter.
Then this raises the question, why spend weeks reaching a local planet when you can reach another star system faster? Sure, jump is inaccurate, and you sometimes have to spend time in a solar system flying to the main world, but if it takes, say, a month to reach the local gas giant, why travel to it and not to a more accessible world or gas giant in the next system?

Again, an argument in favor of fusion torches, which I am now tending to accept as the method of large ship propulsion.
 
Then this raises the question, why spend weeks reaching a local planet when you can reach another star system faster? Sure, jump is inaccurate, and you sometimes have to spend time in a solar system flying to the main world, but if it takes, say, a month to reach the local gas giant, why travel to it and not to a more accessible world or gas giant in the next system?


That's not a bug, Omer. That's a unique design feature.

Hell, even with Traveller's maneuver drives thanks to Sol's jump limit there are times during the year when if you're leaving from Earth it's faster to jump to another system than it is to thrust to Saturn.

Having regions and planets in systems - even in the Solar System - which are visited less often because of the way the setting's FTL and "real space" drives work means that all those systems - including the Solar System - will have more places where the horror and other eerie shenanigans you want can occur. This provides the nooks and crannies your ghosts and ghoulies need.

An isochrone map of your setting's systems would be fascinating.
 
That's not a bug, Omer. That's a unique design feature.

Hell, even with Traveller's maneuver drives thanks to Sol's jump limit there are times during the year when if you're leaving from Earth it's faster to jump to another system than it is to thrust to Saturn.

Having regions and planets in systems - even in the Solar System - which are visited less often because of the way the setting's FTL and "real space" drives work means that all those systems - including the Solar System - will have more places where the horror and other eerie shenanigans you want can occur. This provides the nooks and crannies your ghosts and ghoulies need.

An isochrone map of your setting's systems would be fascinating.
Interesting point.

I'm also researching fission-based engines. I'll probably handwave things a little, and abstract a lot. Zozer's excellent Orbital 2100 has some of the rules I need, though I'll probably want somewhat better (more optimistic?) drives than his NTRs.

Potentially Nuclear Lightbulbs?*

The kind of rockets I am looking for are:
1. Work with a fission power-plant ala MGT1/CE.
2. Relatively high delta-V and acceleration (and I'll probably add some "optimistic handwaving" to performance)
3. Work with hydrogen (or water?) propellant/reaction-mass

If possible - without too much radioactive exhaust.

___
* How often do you have to refuel the "bulb" itself, i.e. the uranium gas core? If this is not too often, this seems like an excellent engine for interface craft, as it lacks radioactive exhaust and there are already launch vehicle designs for this.
 
So we'll have three reaction engine types in Hard Space:

1) Fusion torches - used by starships and fast interplanetary ships. Can maintain constant acceleration/deceleration at high G (typically 1-G). Highly destructive exhaust. Ships with fusion torches use chemical (or ion? or plasma?) thrusters for fine maneuvering (such as docking) where a fusion torch would be too dangerous. Such ships do not land, at least not in most cases but can "dock" with smaller asteroids. Unobtanium (i.e. physically possible but we don't know how to build them yet) but not handwavium.

2) Closed-cycle gas-core fission rockets ("Nuclear Lightbulbs") - used by slower interplanetary craft and interface craft not intended for atmospheric use. Much safer than fusion torches while providing significantly better performance and endurance than chemical rockets. Such ships can land on airless worlds if they have a standard - rather than distributed - hull. Realistic.

3) Chemical rockets - used almost exclusively for atmospheric craft, as well as for fine maneuvering on ships with fusion (or even fission?) rockets. Inefficient but safe. Can land anywhere if they have a streamlined hull and can fly like an airplane if they have a lifting body. Realistic.

By the way, do fusion rockets necessarily mean shipboard fusion reactors? Or are they "simpler" to make (as this is not very fine-controlled fusion)? I have the potential vision of ships with fission reactors and fusion-torch rockets...

I am also going to research Paul Elliott's Orbital: 2100 rules (which are OGL) regarding reaction drives...
 
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