Has Agent changed your vision of the Third Imperium?

[Nathan Brazil]

Mike beat me to the T5 reference to 1248. It exists in some form or another. But also as Mike has noted, the Wave is too fast for the full monty of a rich 1248 background. That's why I mention a branch in the timeline... and why Reality Manipulation might be in effect... or unreliable historians... and so on.

Yep, thanks Rob. When you, Marc or Matt figure it out cool beans, let us know. But until then...:smirk:

Another part that may exist is the events in the Reformation Coalition/Freedom League. The Wave will not pass over Diaspora and Old Expanses until the 1300s and the Solomani Rim until almost 1400. There are not too many interactions recorded as occurring between the League and parties Coreward. Here the big deals are the Droyne population migration and explosion and the descendants of Sandman becoming useful, productive citizens.

 

[kilemall]

Hmmmm. What happens when Hivers look to manipulate events with the Wave? They aren't gonna be caught flat-limbed.

 

[AtlanticFriend]

Hmmmm. What happens when Hivers look to manipulate events with the Wave? They aren't gonna be caught flat-limbed.

Would they understand the phenomenom? They're the alienmost aliens in terms of socity and psychology, and I wonder if the Wave would affect them the same way it does humans. And what happens if/when Itkhlur get affected?

 

[robject]

It most certainly does not affect them the same way it affects humans. It might be worse or better. Also, their reaction to it might be different than ours. It might not even seem typically Hiverlike... assuming they have fears, does the Wave touch a particularly deep-seated one? If so, they might just close their borders and hide for 1,000 years.

<BIAS WARNING>On the other hand, if they just dig in, grease up their five elbows, and solve the problem, well I'm already bored with them, this just makes them more insufferable. </BIAS WARNING>

 

[aramis]

Would they understand the phenomenom? They're the alienmost aliens in terms of socity and psychology, and I wonder if the Wave would affect them the same way it does humans. And what happens if/when Itkhlur get affected?

Not really, aside from the lack of early childhood care, the Hiver are the least alien psychology. Humans (and most apes and monkeys) are highly curious; Hivers take it just a bit further, nd mny humans are a touch cowardly, which the hivers also merely exaggerate.
The K'Kree are further afield, and in a different direction.

Now, if the wave drives the Ithklur insane, the hivers will simply exterminate them.
As for the wave vs Hivers, hivers are non-psionic. Can't develop them, and resstant to mental effects...

 

[mike wightman]

Hivers can be psionic, they are called Dreamers, and they are very very rare.

One of the effects of the wave on the Hivers (see Dave Nilsen interview for the effects of the wave as originally intended) would be more Dreamers...

what effect the retconned/reality manipulated wave will have on the Hivers is for referees to decide, until MWM reveals the details for his OTU.

Here is what DN had to say:

One of the ideas that the Empress Wave concept was going to advance was that there is consciousness that exists in psionic supraspace, either natively, or as a projection of psionic minds elsewhere, i.e., some of each

What the Empress Wave was going to do when it arrived at a place, was to open sentient beings up to a few different results.

Non-psions: no change
Non-psions: development of psionic powers
Non-psions: development of psionic powers with communication with supraspace intellect
Psions: no change
Psions: development of expanded or new psionic powers, initially difficult to understand or control
Psions: psionic powers damaged or burned out by "power surge"
Psions: killed outright by "power surge"
Psions: Various of above plus "possession" by supraspace intellect

 

[jcrocker]

I like that plan, but I think parts of it at least have been set aside by the description in AotI - plants "going crazy" and the like.

Unless every plant in that part of space was psionic.

 

[Condottiere]

Possibly empathic.

 

[AtlanticFriend]

Not really, aside from the lack of early childhood care, the Hiver are the least alien psychology.

Funny, that, as I've always seen the Hivers as the aliens' aliens, a bit like the Pentapods in 2300AD.

Vargr, Aslan and K'kree to me seem closer to human psyche: marked penchant towards personal and organized violence, imbued with a territorial mindset, favouring short-term goals and yearning for direct, immediate results. Hivers I've always found inscrutable and favoring indirect, oblique ways like in their dealing with the K'kree invasion. Maybe (surely) I'll need to get my hands on more Traveller material to brush off on my Common Knowledge (Hiver) then.

As for the wave vs Hivers, hivers are non-psionic. Can't develop them, and resstant to mental effects...

So it means to them, the Wave is simply not happening? What an opportunity for their schemes then... and also, how puzzling the Wave effect on their allies/neighbors/foes must be to the Hivers!

 

[mike wightman]

Hivers can be psionic and the wave will affect them, this is a canonical fact.

Also Hivers have a very different mindset to humans and are definitely more 'alien' than Vargr and Aslan.

You have to go to the primary source, which in this case is the TNE supplement Aliens of the Rim.

 

[mike wightman]

I like that plan, but I think parts of it at least have been set aside by the description in AotI - plants "going crazy" and the like.

We already know there is psionic potential in plantlife and even microbes:
"A psionic using life detection will see strongly psionic life
form of microscopic size. It user telekinesis to shift granules of sand which are used
for its food; the environment is being used to encourage use of this talent."

Unless every plant in that part of space was psionic.

I have a theory that every form of life within charted space has psionic potential (with null being a 'potential' too), and for the same reason. Those that are psionically null (a T5 invention) have a particular advantage against the wave in that it can not affect them at all.

 

[aramis]

Hivers can be psionic and the wave will affect them, this is a canonical fact.

Also Hivers have a very different mindset to humans and are definitely more 'alien' than Vargr and Aslan.

You have to go to the primary source, which in this case is the TNE supplement Aliens of the Rim.

Where are your getting that? (Note, DN doesn't count unless it was in print under GDW lable)

AM7 Hivers notes:

Psionic talents are simply not found among members of the Hiver race. Other Federation races have varying degrees of natural power, but no Federation race makes extensive use of psionics. Research programs are i00~ingin to the development and use of psionic powers, and the strong anti-psionic prejudices of the lmperium are not found in Federation space, but the actual understanding of psionics is probably somewhat lower than in the Imperium.

(Page 37)

 

[mike wightman]

As I have already said, it is in Aliens of the Rim...

I would quote it but the pdfs are so badly done that they don't recognise the text and I am not typing it all out.

But you can read it for yourself on page 39.

Hivers can be psionic...

 

[aramis]

As I have already said, it is in Aliens of the Rim...

I would quote it but the pdf's are so badly done that they don't recognise the text and I am not typing it all out.

But you can read it for yourself on page 39.

Hivers can be psionic...

Yet another "Dave changes canon for the worse" element. (That whole book is, IMO, a hot steaming mess of post bovine fodder.)

 

[mike wightman]

I can think of many changes and retcons that are a lot worse than what came out of TNE. :devil:
A lot of people liked TNE and still do, and Aliens of the Rim is a pretty good supplement which sets the scene for what would have been a rather major campaign.

Your personal opinion of Dave Nilsen's contribution to the Traveller corpus is irrelevant to the point being made , TNE is canon, and so is the Hivers having psionic potential. Until, of course, MWM retcons it :CoW:

 

[GypsyComet]

As you say, 1248 can not be considered canon anymore.

Mongoose has overwritten some of the setting elements in it, and the retcon to an FTL wave means the wave hits the Spinward Marches much sooner than the 1248 timeline.

The Wave is still calibrated by its arrival on the Imperial coreward border. The difference is that with the FTL change, the Wave is already *past* the Marches entirely by 1248, instead of still crawling through Lanth and Rhylanor subsectors. The new version of the Wave is about to roll over Pax Rulin instead.

 

[Kobeck]

The subsector fleet? Yes, at least by prior canon. But we don't see any of those local navies in the novel; all we see are IISS and IN.

to be fair most of the situations were fairly backwards locations... not all of course

and yes ... nary a mention of anything other than IN that I caught as well