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Have you ever considered how vast the 3rd Imperium is?

There are absolute bottlenecks in any sector of a Traveller map. With good intelligence of any enemy Order of Battle and statistics of enemy ship classes, on a Strategic level you can KNOW where to concentrate your reserves. No, you will not necessarily know the exact system but you can saturate a few logical systems in a subsector. You may not decisively win the first battle, or even battles, but you will annihilate an evading fleet in due time. Shear weight of numbers and the inability of your opponent to effect long term repairs WILL win out in the end.

The intelligence is at best 1 week out from HQ – a situation not seen routinely since roughly the mid 19th century on earth – if not 2-6 weeks out from the general HQ.

You can predict the bottlenecks; you can't predict when you'll NEED the forces for defensive purposes, and any forces not with you add additional weeks comm time.

Under the situations of the mid 19th C, there were battles fought well after the war was over. It was worse in the early 19th - A battle took place over 2 months after the armistice, having started 3 weeks after the armistice, between units that had been sent out well before hand, and word was not able to be sent to even relatively nearby units to go defend the city of New Orleans, nor was higher command able to send the recall in time.

All assertions of capabilities based upon modern warfare need to be examined closely for the impact of the OTU's utter lack of effective communications. You don't appear to have even given the slightest considerations of the command lag times.

The general staff can, with good intel, predict where attacks will come, if active hostilities are ongoing and correct data about enemy forces is present - but that's not going to be the case in the OTU. The data will be weeks out of date, the Imperial general staff is 3-6 months away from the borders, the Sector general staff up to a month away... and battle reports equally so.

Think of playing stratego, but having to order a piece between 2 and 4 turns ahead, and until a like number of turns later, not knowing if it won or lost. That's the reality of the sector command staff, even if they're near the front (as was the case with Santanocheev and Norris).
 
The intelligence is at best 1 week out from HQ – a situation not seen routinely since roughly the mid 19th century on earth – if not 2-6 weeks out from the general HQ.

You can predict the bottlenecks; you can't predict when you'll NEED the forces for defensive purposes, and any forces not with you add additional weeks comm time.

Under the situations of the mid 19th C, there were battles fought well after the war was over. It was worse in the early 19th - A battle took place over 2 months after the armistice, having started 3 weeks after the armistice, between units that had been sent out well before hand, and word was not able to be sent to even relatively nearby units to go defend the city of New Orleans, nor was higher command able to send the recall in time.

All assertions of capabilities based upon modern warfare need to be examined closely for the impact of the OTU's utter lack of effective communications. You don't appear to have even given the slightest considerations of the command lag times.

The general staff can, with good intel, predict where attacks will come, if active hostilities are ongoing and correct data about enemy forces is present - but that's not going to be the case in the OTU. The data will be weeks out of date, the Imperial general staff is 3-6 months away from the borders, the Sector general staff up to a month away... and battle reports equally so.

Think of playing stratego, but having to order a piece between 2 and 4 turns ahead, and until a like number of turns later, not knowing if it won or lost. That's the reality of the sector command staff, even if they're near the front (as was the case with Santanocheev and Norris).

Sure I considered Command Lag and it doesn't matter. I'll assume, for instance, you were referring to the Battle of New Orleans at first. Command Lag had NOTHING to do with WHERE the battle took place; it was a given.

It didn't matter WHEN the battle took place, again, it was a given that it would take place. It is unfortunate that it occurred after the war was over but that was TIME LAG not Command Lag.

The battle took place where it had to. The WHEN had nothing to do with it. The same situation will/would occur in Traveller. (Again due to TIME LAG.) Sooner, or latter, an invading force will come to a certain point. If you accurately predict that point and mass adequate forces, you will prevail.

That was, and is, my assertion. Fast Tenders will allow you to draw on rear area reserves and mass them accordingly. Note the word reserves; I'm NOT talking about dividing battle fores and tying them up. I'm talking about EFFECTIVELY relocating your reserves.

"intelligence is at best 1 week out" doesn't mean dinky do regarding an opponents Order of Battle and especially his ship types and capabilities.

Wars are not planed on what you, or your enemy, WANT to do, but on what they CAN do.

A good commander forces battle on his enemy at the place of his choosing. Those places are often decided on geography and topography. History is full of accidental engagements, sometimes very decisive, but wars are won primarily on planed and prepared fields of battle.

Due to TIME LAG a Traveller style of war will be fought, and deployment will be, "economy of force". You, of economic necessity, will have holding and fixing fores on the front. Proper, timely and accurate deployment of reserves will be the deciding factor.
 
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Given that the majority of the "TL 15 Imperium" fleet is actually TL 14, and that TL15 is, by the timeline, relatively recent, it's possible that, circa 1117, one or two individual research projects have unreliable highly experimental hop 1 drives. If it misjumps even 10% of the time, it's too risky to use, simply due to expenses.

Further, getting the information (in a timely manner) about where to send the fleet requires a hop-drive courier. Being able to send reinforcements at J10 is irrelevant if you don't know where they're going to be needed.

For what I've read here, I understand that hop-drive uses less fuel (in percentage) that regular one. If so, the ships may carry fuel for more tan a junp, so minimizing the effects of a missjump, even if they appear in an empty hex.

And never forget a large enough supertender might well carry full BT, each with their BRs (a megadton ship could probably carry 2-3 200 kdton Lurenti BT, each with its BRs and fighters, and even some Sloans, so carring 2-3 full squadrons, more so if they need less tan 10% of its volumen a fuel) to deploy once they reach near the front lines, so being able to redeploy reserves quite quickly, and in case of a missjump, even if no fuel is left, the BTs can jump away and be recovered...

This can give little (if any) tactical/operational advantage, but gives a huge strategical advantage if your reserves from (let's say) Corridor or Vland sectors can reach the Spinward Marces in less than half time (and if the messages calling them go also quicker).

Further, canon tends to imply that Yaskodray has been using multiple methods of travel faster than J6. Hop 6 is far better than fixed portals from a "where do I want him showing up" standpoint.

Being far better does not mean being posible ;).

As said before, CT/MT said no jump over 6 was posible until the appearence of those portals, so, accepting hop drives (more so if they are more than a distant possibility and are already available, even if experimental) is a major change and needs some retcons.
 
This can give little (if any) tactical/operational advantage, but gives a huge strategical advantage if your reserves from (let's say) Corridor or Vland sectors can reach the Spinward Marces in less than half time (and if the messages calling them go also quicker).

This was VERY true when railroads were first used in transporting troops and materiel. Marching allowed up to 50 miles per day at BEST and was impossible to sustain. Railroads allowed 200-250 miles per day on a sustainable AVERAGE.
 
Cultures can reach TL21+ without ever discovering the jump drive.

The first Imperium didn't have meson gun technology or nuclear dampers, both within the r&d limits of the T5 tech charts.

The second Imperium didn't discover the meson screen.

The third Imperium is reverse engineering black globes, but listing them as TL15 is silly since without the higher TL screens to base their research upon they would never have been discovered until their true TL.

Just because T5 introduces the advanced drives it does not follow that somehow the third Imperium is secretly researching them even if the T5 rules as written allow it.

As said before, CT/MT said no jump over 6 was posible until the appearence of those portals, so, accepting hop drives (more so if they are more than a distant possibility and are already available, even if experimental) is a major change and needs some retcons.


I think I would agree that just because the T5-Ruleset says that Prototype Hop-Drives are possible at TL-15, does not necessarily mean that the science of the Third Imperium (or its neighbors) have discovered the secret in the ca. 1100 era. (Now, if some Ancient "cache" of Hop-Drives were discovered (like Black Globes were), the Imperium might be able to reverse-engineer rudimentary working copies . . . ).

However, regarding the idea that Jumps beyond 6 are not possible prior to portal technology, it is actually internally inconsistent with even Classic Traveller (despite the fact that there are actual statements within the various rule-sets that have suggested exactly that). What I mean is that if it is possible to misjump 36pc, then it most certainly is possible to Jump at least J-36 (since it has been observed to happen). It may be that there are huge technical and/or theoretical difficulties in current Imperial science that make it non-viable in year 1100, but it must be possible if you can make a misjump of that distance.
 
It may be that there are huge technical and/or theoretical difficulties in current Imperial science that make it non-viable in year 1100, but it must be possible if you can make a misjump of that distance.

The ONLY thing that MUST be possible is, uncontrolled jumps up to 36 pc.
 
I think I would agree that just because the T5-Ruleset says that Prototype Hop-Drives are possible at TL-15, does not necessarily mean that the science of the Third Imperium (or its neighbors) have discovered the secret in the ca. 1100 era. (Now, if some Ancient "cache" of Hop-Drives were discovered (like Black Globes were), the Imperium might be able to reverse-engineer rudimentary working copies . . . ).

However, regarding the idea that Jumps beyond 6 are not possible prior to portal technology, it is actually internally inconsistent with even Classic Traveller (despite the fact that there are actual statements within the various rule-sets that have suggested exactly that). What I mean is that if it is possible to misjump 36pc, then it most certainly is possible to Jump at least J-36 (since it has been observed to happen). It may be that there are huge technical and/or theoretical difficulties in current Imperial science that make it non-viable in year 1100, but it must be possible if you can make a misjump of that distance.

Very true. Many times I've toyed with the idea of a "controlled" misjump. In the end I always come to the conclusion that it would destroy the setting.

Think what would happen if there were a 200dt free trader that could go anywhere within 36 parsecs on 20dt of jump fuel? You never have to worry about how to pay the loan off...You couldn't possibly lose money.

If the Emperor had even a small fleet of 100dt Scout Couriers going 36 parsecs on 10dt of jump fuel? Some very wise governing decisions could be made. The Emperor would appear to be prescient if not omnipotent.

How many BatRons with a 36 parse jump range would it take to subjugate every other race?

I think Grandfather would come out of hibernation and make his presence felt...:eek:
 
Very true. Many times I've toyed with the idea of a "controlled" misjump. In the end I always come to the conclusion that it would destroy the setting.

Think what would happen if there were a 200dt free trader that could go anywhere within 36 parsecs on 20dt of jump fuel? You never have to worry about how to pay the loan off...You couldn't possibly lose money.

If the Emperor had even a small fleet of 100dt Scout Couriers going 36 parsecs on 10dt of jump fuel? Some very wise governing decisions could be made. The Emperor would appear to be prescient if not omnipotent.

How many BatRons with a 36 parse jump range would it take to subjugate every other race?

I think Grandfather would come out of hibernation and make his presence felt...:eek:


I totally agree with you.

But the primary point I am making is that Jumps greater than 6 are theoretically possible within earlier editions of Traveller, just well beyond the current understanding of Imperial Science and Technology (Ancient portals notwithstanding).
 
Without being able to study J-space in far more detail, it is impossible for anyone to state with any degree of accuracy.

Agreed. But my leaning would be to say that the issue is ultimately technical, rather than theoretical.
 
Good Question!

Umm, why would a bunch of elite mercenaries who are honorably-discharged former military men want to refer to themselves as a "Caste of Assassins"? Do those words mean something different in their language?

Military soldiers are trained to kill their enemies and paid to do so. That is where the name originally comes from for MTU mercenary organization.

In other societies (like the kingdom of Gor in the novels of the same name) Assassins are an honorable caste of elite soldiers.
They are dedicated to providing a service to their employer.
They have an honor code they live and work by (I have posted it in other threads on this forum). They are not terrorists who randomly kill innocent bystanders.
No one has anything to worry about when they are around UNLESS they are the target of the Assassin's contract.
Caste of Assassin Mercenaries are not allowed by contract and under penalty of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Mercenary Justice. Also posted somewhere on this forum.) to break civilian laws.
My Mercenaries are the equal of any military force in the universe in weapons, training and integrity.
The name "Assassin" is meant to strike fear into the heart of our enemies and opponents.
So far, it seems to have been effective in that goal.
 
Military soldiers are trained to kill their enemies and paid to do so. That is where the name originally comes from for MTU mercenary organization.

In other societies (like the kingdom of Gor in the novels of the same name) Assassins are an honorable caste of elite soldiers.
They are dedicated to providing a service to their employer.
They have an honor code they live and work by (I have posted it in other threads on this forum). They are not terrorists who randomly kill innocent bystanders.
No one has anything to worry about when they are around UNLESS they are the target of the Assassin's contract.
Caste of Assassin Mercenaries are not allowed by contract and under penalty of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Mercenary Justice. Also posted somewhere on this forum.) to break civilian laws.
My Mercenaries are the equal of any military force in the universe in weapons, training and integrity.
The name "Assassin" is meant to strike fear into the heart of our enemies and opponents.
So far, it seems to have been effective in that goal.

There can also be some Aslan influence in the naming of the unit...

That was what I thouhgt when I first read about them.

From MT:S&A, page 71:

To the Aslan, the assasin is a highly honorable career choice. (...) To explain teh Aslan assasin in career terms a human understands, teh closest parallel would be a three way mix priest-law enforce-bounty hunter (...)
 
However, regarding the idea that Jumps beyond 6 are not possible prior to portal technology, it is actually internally inconsistent with even Classic Traveller (despite the fact that there are actual statements within the various rule-sets that have suggested exactly that). What I mean is that if it is possible to misjump 36pc, then it most certainly is possible to Jump at least J-36 (since it has been observed to happen). It may be that there are huge technical and/or theoretical difficulties in current Imperial science that make it non-viable in year 1100, but it must be possible if you can make a misjump of that distance.

As said by others, misjumps are uncontrolled, but you're right they prove that higher jumps are possible, just not controlable (yet, at least, though rules state quite in stone that thay just aren't).

Many times I've toyed with the idea of a "controlled" misjump.

Not only you. In fact is a recurrent matter when the possibility of higher jump is discussed, and is stated in many canon sources that this is precisely one of the fields of jump ressearch (to no avail, according the same sources).

And in any case remember that misjumps can also move you less than intended, and may take longer tan regular trade (you may travel just a parsec in 6 weeks with a missjump too).
 
I wish Marc hadn't decimalised jump drives and the advanced drives that follow on.

IMTU the jump drive is limited to 1-6, the hop drive is 6-36, skip is 36-216 etc.
 
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