Hello and a question

[77topaz]

Ukaarriit!!b is now the sixth explorerbase sector on TravellerMap!

 

[77topaz]

I've added a map for Ukaarriit!!b on Explorerbase (I'd forgotten to do this before).

Any suggestions as to which sector I should cover next?

 

[Timerover51]

I've added a map for Ukaarriit!!b on Explorerbase (I'd forgotten to do this before).

Any suggestions as to which sector I should cover next?

Precisely how is one supposed to pronounce Ukaarriit!!b? I was unaware that the exclamation point had a sound attached to it.

 

[rancke]

Precisely how is one supposed to pronounce Ukaarriit!!b? I was unaware that the exclamation point had a sound attached to it.

It's a sound midways between a hiccup and a rattle. Repeated.


Hans

 

[77topaz]

The exclamation mark is a click of the tongue, IIRC, with a double exclamation mark being a complex K'kree click.

 

[Timerover51]

The exclamation mark is a click of the tongue, IIRC, with a double exclamation mark being a complex K'kree click.

Thank you for your enlightenment. Now, quoting Sherlock Holmes replying to Watson who had just imparted to Sherlock a widely known piece of information in A Study in Scarlet:

"Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it."

 

[77topaz]

Thank you for your enlightenment. Now, quoting Sherlock Holmes replying to Watson who had just imparted to Sherlock a widely known piece of information in A Study in Scarlet:

You were the one who asked for it in the first place, though. If you do forget it, remember where this post is.

 

[Timerover51]

You were the one who asked for it in the first place, though. If you do forget it, remember where this post is.

I was curious as to where in the English language the exclamation point had acquired a sound. You indicated that it was not a sound used in English, but in a manufactured language. English is what I speak and use to communicate both in the spoken and written word. I communicate to players in English. I do not expect ever to utilize or worry about the manufactured language of the K'Kree.

 

[aramis]

I was curious as to where in the English language the exclamation point had acquired a sound. You indicated that it was not a sound used in English, but in a manufactured language. English is what I speak and use to communicate both in the spoken and written word. I communicate to players in English. I do not expect ever to utilize or worry about the manufactured language of the K'Kree.

It's commonly used orthography for clicks African languages written internal the Latin alphabet, especially west African ones. Traveller does nothing terrible unusual in using ! for a click, !! for a double click, and ' for a glottal stop.

 

[Timerover51]

It's commonly used orthography for clicks African languages written internal the Latin alphabet, especially west African ones. Traveller does nothing terrible unusual in using ! for a click, !! for a double click, and ' for a glottal stop.

Pardon me, I am not an expert, nor do I ever expect to be an expert in any other language besides English. I do not expect players to be expert in any other language besides English. I probably still can translate Egyptian hieroglyphics if needed, and I can make out common military terminology if written in the Greek alphabet.

I guess that I could work up an "Hiero" sector or subsector, with all of the planets names being given in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and then expect the players to try to figure out what those mean on their own. There are hieroglyphic translators online. As to how good they are is unknown, and they do appear to be mainly going from English to hieroglyphics, rather than hieroglyphics to English.

 

[Dragoner]

The Kalahari Bushmen or !Kung use that click consonant in their name:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ǃKung_people

 

[77topaz]

I was curious as to where in the English language the exclamation point had acquired a sound. You indicated that it was not a sound used in English, but in a manufactured language. English is what I speak and use to communicate both in the spoken and written word. I communicate to players in English. I do not expect ever to utilize or worry about the manufactured language of the K'Kree.

If you play Traveller, you should know a bit about its languages. You would expect to have to utilise some of them in some games.

 

[Timerover51]

If you play Traveller, you should know a bit about its languages. You would expect to have to utilise some of them in some games.

Why, are my players supposed to speak Vilani, Droyne, Zhodani, Aslan, or Vargr? Am I supposed to communicate to my players in Vilani, Droyne, Zhdani, Aslan, or Vargr?

 

[rancke]

It's commonly used orthography for clicks African languages written internal the Latin alphabet, especially west African ones. Traveller does nothing terrible unusual in using ! for a click, !! for a double click, and ' for a glottal stop.

Pardon me, I am not an expert, nor do I ever expect to be an expert in any other language besides English. I do not expect players to be expert in any other language besides English. I probably still can translate Egyptian hieroglyphics if needed, and I can make out common military terminology if written in the Greek alphabet.

What Wil told you was that this IS English usage for some sounds not covered by the 26 standard letters.

I had no idea that this was the case, btw., but I simply assumed it was an imaginary usage of the exclamation mark to represent some sound not covered by the 26 standard letters and had no problem with that. It's not like I have to pronounce it very often (In fact, I haven't had to pronounce it even once so far in my life and I don't expect it to become an issue many times in my future).


Hans

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Why, are my players supposed to speak Vilani, Droyne, Zhodani, Aslan, or Vargr? Am I supposed to communicate to my players in Vilani, Droyne, Zhdani, Aslan, or Vargr?

Some referees use it to provide atmosphere. It's cool if you use some visuals (like store signs and such). It can be cool if a referee can voice it occasionally, though it isn't necessary by any means. Some referees way overdo it. And, some individuals here are way too freakin' smart.

 

[Timerover51]

Some referees use it to provide atmosphere. It's cool if you use some visuals (like store signs and such). It can be cool if a referee can voice it occasionally, though it isn't necessary by any means. Some referees way overdo it. And, some individuals here are way too freakin' smart.

I tend to provide atmosphere by using plastic miniatures of various types, also pre-drawn maps of critical areas, scaled to fit the miniature bases.

As for languages, I will admit to not having any ability in that area whatsoever in terms of the spoken word, although I can translate Egyptian, and to a lesser degree, Old English.

I could put together a planet where the Terran settlers departed Earth with the idea of founding a planet based on the culture of Ancient Egypt, and where hieroglyphics were the standard writing. The other option would be use as a language something approximating Old English, used by a long neglected planet of Terrans from England.

 

[77topaz]

Why, are my players supposed to speak Vilani, Droyne, Zhodani, Aslan, or Vargr? Am I supposed to communicate to my players in Vilani, Droyne, Zhdani, Aslan, or Vargr?

I didn't say that. You don't have to fluently speak those languages, I don't think anyone does, but to know a little of each, like what it sounds like, is always useful, for discerning between them, for example. And knowing a few words can also be useful, for greetings and warnings etc.

 

[Carlobrand]

...I guess that I could work up an "Hiero" sector or subsector, with all of the planets names being given in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and then expect the players to try to figure out what those mean on their own. There are hieroglyphic translators online. As to how good they are is unknown, and they do appear to be mainly going from English to hieroglyphics, rather than hieroglyphics to English.

You could certainly do that, if Egyptian heiroglyphics ever came to represent sounds not captured by the standard alphabet and you had cultures utilizing those sounds who'd named the planets. Might be useful to capture the chirps and trills of a birdlike species, for example, though the absence of a set of heiroglyphics on the keyboard might prove a handicap.

Maybe a Wingdings font would serve better.

 

[Timerover51]

You could certainly do that, if Egyptian heiroglyphics ever came to represent sounds not captured by the standard alphabet and you had cultures utilizing those sounds who'd named the planets. Might be useful to capture the chirps and trills of a birdlike species, for example, though the absence of a set of heiroglyphics on the keyboard might prove a handicap.

Maybe a Wingdings font would serve better.

I have a set of hieroglyphic stamps that I use when I teach about Ancient Egypt, and also still have my Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar and several other books as well, plus I did get reasonably competent at rendering hieroglyphics when I studied for a year. Probably my one claim to art competency. Setting up a basic subsector map, and cross-referencing with a chart giving planet names keyed to their location using hieroglyphics would not be a problem, and then scanning the pages into my computer would not be a problem. For that matter, scanning in the complete hieroglyphic set of symbols would not be that hard and then placing them as individual images as needed.

The assumption would be that in the initial expansion from Terra, a group set out that desired to recreate the culture of Ancient Egypt, along with using hieroglyphics. During the Long Night, they lost and then rediscovered the jump drive, and expanded to fill a subsector, so using standard sounds would not be a problem. Optionally, I could use something like Andre Norton's "bald space rovers" to transplant a colony of Ancient Egyptians to an arid world to provide laborers, with the Baldies succumbing to Terran diseases and the planet being placed under quarantine. Eventually, the colonists develop either generation ships or the jump drive and expand out into a subsector. I then have a subsector using hieroglyphics that also uses standard Terran sounds.

 

[Carlobrand]

I have a set of hieroglyphic stamps that I use when I teach about Ancient Egypt, and also still have my Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar and several other books as well, plus I did get reasonably competent at rendering hieroglyphics when I studied for a year. Probably my one claim to art competency. Setting up a basic subsector map, and cross-referencing with a chart giving planet names keyed to their location using hieroglyphics would not be a problem, and then scanning the pages into my computer would not be a problem. For that matter, scanning in the complete hieroglyphic set of symbols would not be that hard and then placing them as individual images as needed.

The assumption would be that in the initial expansion from Terra, a group set out that desired to recreate the culture of Ancient Egypt, along with using hieroglyphics. During the Long Night, they lost and then rediscovered the jump drive, and expanded to fill a subsector, so using standard sounds would not be a problem. Optionally, I could use something like Andre Norton's "bald space rovers" to transplant a colony of Ancient Egyptians to an arid world to provide laborers, with the Baldies succumbing to Terran diseases and the planet being placed under quarantine. Eventually, the colonists develop either generation ships or the jump drive and expand out into a subsector. I then have a subsector using hieroglyphics that also uses standard Terran sounds.

That would be so cool for the alphabet-based player to run into!