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- Thread starter Vladika
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Tech level table (two page spread). TTB 86; CT-81 Bk3 p 14-15; CT-77 Bk3 p 10-11; Starter Bk2 p 16-17. Column on right page, labeled Transportation - Space.
Content is (for easier reference)
| TL 9 | A-D |
| TL A | E-H |
| TL B | J-K |
| TL C | L-N |
| TL D | P-Q |
| TL E | R-U |
| TL F | F-Z |
Note that stock, unmodified CT Bk2 does not limit performance by TL directly, but only by available drives.
This does have some practical limits, tho'...
Also note: the TL for computers limits jump.
| TL | Max Jump | Max Comp | Max Hull |
| TL 9 | J3 | Mod/3 | 800Td |
| TL A | J4 | Mod/4 | 1000Td |
| TL B | J5 | Mod/5 | 2000Td |
| TL C | J6 | Mod/6 | 2000Td |
| TL D | J6 | Mod/7 | 3000Td |
| TL E | J6 | (Mod/8) | 3000Td |
| TL F | J6 | (Mod/9) | 5000Td |
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mike wightman
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That second table is an inspiration Aramis - why didn't I think of tabulating like that years ago? Thanks for posting it (cut/paste) 
Vladika
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Question: How does this relate to HG2 p23?
| TL 9 | J1 |
| TL B | J2 |
| TL C | J3 |
| TL D | J4 |
| TL E | J5 |
| TL F | J6 |
I've long accepted that Book 2 Drives behaved a bit odd.
This allows a Scout with drive A(TL9) to make a J2, or should we say even though it's an A drive, it goes only J1 until TL11 is reached?
It does not relate.
As you see in Aramis' tables, jump may be achieved as soon as computer allows you (up to 6, of course), and you can achieve J4 at TL 10 (TL 12 in HG) and J6 at TL 12 (TL 15 in HG), whith small ships, while large ones (3000+ dton) can never attain them in Bk2, again regardless TL.
See also that tthe maximum size available in Bk2 is because there are no drives able to move/power them, not because computer size as in HG.
Vladika
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So we just allow higher jumps for CT designs even though HG2 has a required TL minimum? (I'm all for it but wonder if HG2, being a latter book, doesn't negate the earlier CT Book 2 "rule".)
I no longer know when/where a later or newer edition or rules set supersedes and older, previously established rule. I know IMTU I can do as I please, but, not in a HG competition with others.
I've long since "hybridized" drives in smaller ships, noting the different requirements for engineers, but, min TL seems to be a necessary established constant to effectively run a HG2 campaign.
mike wightman
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There were several major paradigm changes to '77 CT rules when HG1 was published in '79 - maximum jump number became TL dependant, m-drives got bigger while j-drives got smaller, a power plant must be installed for a j-drive, power plant fuel became PPn x 0.01 x hull tonnage, a jump governor could be fitted to allow a ship to use a variable amount of fuel for a jump rather than using all of it regardless of jump distance.
All of these changes in one form or another were retain for HG2 in '80.
What remains completely unexplainable is why revised CT '81 didn't adopt all the HG2 changes. So instead the disconnect between the TL and size of LBB2 drives vs HG continues to this day
'81 CT did include the change that a j-drive requires a pp - at a stroke making an iconic OTU concept (the x-boat) a broken, unbuildable design by the RAW.
All of these changes in one form or another were retain for HG2 in '80.
What remains completely unexplainable is why revised CT '81 didn't adopt all the HG2 changes. So instead the disconnect between the TL and size of LBB2 drives vs HG continues to this day
'81 CT did include the change that a j-drive requires a pp - at a stroke making an iconic OTU concept (the x-boat) a broken, unbuildable design by the RAW.
Bk2 is a different paradigm. In the errata, the TL limits of Bk5 apply, but in a pure Bk2 universe or one without the canonista errata items, Bk5 doesn't exist, nor do its limits on jump.
Also note: maximum jump by hull and TL is a surprising bit.
| TL | TL 9 | TL A | TL B | TL C | TL D | TL E | TL F |
| Drives | A-D | E-H | J-K | L-N | P-Q | R-U | F-Z |
| Comp Mod | Mod/3 | Mod/4 | Mod/5 | Mod/6 | Mod/7 | (Mod/8) | (Mod/9) |
| Max Hull | 800 | 1000 | 2000 | 2000 | 3000 | 3000 | 5000 |
| 100 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 |
| 200 | J2 | J2 | J2 | J2 | J2 | J2 | J2 |
| 400 | J3 | J4 | J4 | J4 | J4 | J4 | J4 |
| 600 | J1 | J2 | J3 | J4 | J5 | J5 | J5 |
| 800 | J1 | J2 | J2 | J3 | J3 | J4 | J5 |
| 1000 | — | J1 | J2 | J2 | J3 | J3 | J6 |
| 2000 | — | — | J1 | J1 | J1 | J1 | J6 |
| 3000 | — | — | — | — | J1 | J1 | J4 |
| 4000 | — | — | — | — | — | — | J3 |
| 5000 | — | — | — | — | — | — | J2 |
| Max Jump by TL | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 |
| TL | TL 9 | TL A | TL B | TL C | TL D | TL E | TL F |
| Drives | A-D | E-H | J-K | L-N | P-Q | R-U | F-Z |
| Comp Mod | Mod/3 | Mod/4 | Mod/5 | Mod/6 | Mod/7 | (Mod/8) | (Mod/9) |
| Max Hull | 800 | 1000 | 2000 | 2000 | 3000 | 3000 | 5000 |
| 100 | J3 | J4*/J3 | J4*/J3 | J4*/J3 | J4*/J3 | J4*/J3 | J4*/J3 |
| 200 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 | J3 |
| 400 | J2 | J2 | J4 | J4 | J4 | J4 | J4 |
| 600 | J1 | J2 | J3 | J4 | J5 | J6 | J6 |
| 800 | J1 | J2 | J2 | J3 | J3 | J4 | J6 |
| 1000 | — | J1 | J2 | J2 | J3 | J3 | J6 |
| 2000 | — | — | J1 | J1 | J1 | J1 | J6 |
| 3000 | — | — | — | — | J1 | J1 | J4 |
| 4000 | — | — | — | — | — | — | J3 |
| 5000 | — | — | — | — | — | — | J2 |
| Max Jump by TL | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 |
| Max XBoat by TL | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 |
Note that CT 77 express boats can be faster than the bottom line, as these were generated for minimum 1G.
A 100Td XBoat J5 is doable under CT 77 at TL B
20 Tons Bridge
50 Tons JFuel
20 Tons JDrive C
_5 Tons Model/5
_4 Tons 1xStateroom (P)
_1 Tons cargo
A 200Td TL C J6 X-boat is also doable under CT-77
_20 Tons Bridge
_120 Tons JFuel
_35 Tons JDrive F
__7 Tons Model/6
_16 Tons 4xStateroom (PNEM)
__2 Tons cargo
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Vladika
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I like this (sort of), it's reasonable anyway.
So, at TL9 my shipyard produces an "A" jump drive, but it can only produce a J1 in the 100dton TL9 ship. This goes along very well with T5 in that there are prototype as well as advanced technology available at differing TLs. In this case the A drive in question is a working prototype. At TL 11 a different A drive wouldn't be a prototype and capable of J2.
The above argues from Aramis's HG2 vs pure CT setting.
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mike wightman
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Aramis there is one error in your 77 table - x boat etc.
There is no computer must equal jump number rule, the computer must only be capable of running the jump number program. Jump 2-6 all take 2 spaces in the CPU so a 1bis can handle it. This is by the rules as written.
There is no computer must equal jump number rule, the computer must only be capable of running the jump number program. Jump 2-6 all take 2 spaces in the CPU so a 1bis can handle it. This is by the rules as written.
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And you could definitely have settings that conformed exactly to the Bk2 paradigm. Furthermore, I see no reason why such settings couldn't be every bit as interesting as (or more interesting than) the Third Imperium setting. But the Third Imperium setting can't be one of them. I don't know what connotations you think the term 'canonista errata' has, but when it comes to the desperate attempts to revise the Bk2 paradigm enough to make it compatible with the Third Imperium setting, I think the connotations are entirely positive[*]. I don't think such an attempt can succeed, sadly, but I think the attempt is laudable.
[*] We need all the canonista errata we can get to fix the broken parts of the OTU. (Just as we need more people to keep their hands off the parts of the OTU that aren't broken (And, yes, I'm referring to people who have every legal right to mess with the parts that aren't broken. Just because they can doesn't mean they should). It ought to go without saying that this is my opinion, not an objective fact, but just to be on the safe side I'll say it anyway).
Hans
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Yeah, but it's interpretable (reasonably) that you have to have all the lower number programs unless you're only ever jumping full distance.
Which does require one lower computer model. Without it, the X-boats still have the same drive-based limits.
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