help with Ancients ship design

[c_osborne]

If antimatter was needed on regular basis, and it takes a huge plant to make it, then I would think they would either;

1) Since it is a scout ship, and not desinged to hang around near the antimatter plants, it would be designed to use the fuel on hand (conventional hydrogen based fusion power).

or

2) The would have some kind of extradimensional way to get the required antimatter

Any thoughts or other ideas?

 

[c_osborne]

Based on input so far, here's what it looks like.

Starship
Tech Level: L/21
Size: Medium (100 tons)
Streamlining: Streamlined
Jump Range: Variable*
Acceleration: 6G
Fuel: 24 tons
Duration: 4 weeks
Crew: 1
Staterooms: None
Small Cabins: None
Bunks: 6
Couches: None
Low Berths: 1
Cargo Space: 20 tons
Atmospheric Speeds: NoE 1475kph, Cruising 4425kph, Maximum 5900kph
EP Output: 18 (4 excess)
Agility: 6
Initiative: +6 (Agility)
AC: 22 (+6 Agility, +6 Armor)
Repulsors: None
Nuclear Dampers: None
Meson Screens: None
Black Globes: 3 tons USP3
AR: 6
SI: 100
Armament: Meson Barbette (USP1)
Main Computer: Model/9 (High AI)
Sensor Range: Model/9 (Meson)
Comm Range: Model/9 (Meson)
Cost: N/A
Other Equipment: Air/raft

*This ship has a psionic Jump drive. A telepath is required to use it. The Jump range is 1 per every 4 ranks of Telepathy. Jumps are near-instantaneous.

 

[mike wightman]

At TL11 within the OTU meson guns are possible. One TL later at TL12 the nuclear damper and the meson screen become available, both of the latter two technologies rely on the manipulation of the strong nuclear force.
At TL16 the ability to manipulate the strong nuclear force gives rise to the disintegrator.

According to some sources micrograms of antimatter could be produced worldwide with current technology refinement over the next ten years or so - I would think that by TL10 antimatter factories would be producing kg quantities.
Even if we stuck to micrograms but used TL9 tech to build the factory on Mercury to make use of cheap solar power, youd be able to ramp up production that way.

IMTU antimatter power becomes possible at TL 17 not because the production processes that we can do now become more efficient, but because a technology is developed to turn matter into antimatter relatively cheaply.
By TL22 the antimatter production tech can be incorporated into the reactor assembly in order to produce a total mass conversion reactor.

Higher TLs bring the singularity reactor, the zero-point energy reactor, the jump space energy tap...

 

[c_osborne]

Here's my thought. If the jump drive is psionic, then power is only needed for manuever, computer, weapons, etc. Based on my design, a very small high tech fusion power system would work fine, and only require 7 tons of fuel per month. Using antimatter doesn't provide enough of a benefit to use for a long range scout, and would only complicate matters. Does that seem sensible?

I made a few slight adjustments to power and airframe.

Starship
Tech Level: L/21
Size: Medium (100 tons)
Streamlining: Streamlined Airframe
Jump Range: Variable*
Acceleration: 6G
Fuel: 7 tons
Duration: 4 weeks
Crew: 1
Staterooms: None
Small Cabins: None
Bunks: 6
Couches: None
Low Berths: 1
Cargo Space: 20 tons
Atmospheric Speeds: NoE 1475kph, Cruising 4425kph, Maximum 5900kph
EP Output: 21 (1 excess)
Agility: 6
Initiative: +6 (Agility)
AC: 22 (+6 Agility, +6 Armor)
Repulsors: None
Nuclear Dampers: None
Meson Screens: None
Black Globes: 3 tons USP3
AR: 6
SI: 100
Armament: Meson Barbette (USP1)
Main Computer: Model/9 (High AI)
Sensor Range: Model/9 (Meson)
Comm Range: Model/9 (Meson)
Cost: N/A
Other Equipment: Air/raft

*This ship has a psionic Jump drive. A telepath is required to use it. The Jump range is 1 per every 4 ranks of Telepathy. Jumps are near-instantaneous.

 

[jfetters]

Well, the only problem with instantaneous Psionic drives in the OTU are that it goes completely against what we know about JumpSpace physics - meaning you drop into jumpspace and precipiate out after 168 hours.

Having said that, I think the way around that (at least as I see it) would be for the psion to take fast drug (or is it slow drug?) to slow down metabolism while controlling the jump.

 

[c_osborne]

Perhaps instead of a psionic 'jump drive' they could simply implement a psionic interstellar teleporter. Obviously if that became common, it would wreak havoc on the OTU. But for a unique ancient technology item, it might not be a huge issue.

 

[mike wightman]

Just say it's an interstellar range teleportation machine rather than a jump drive.

Or it could be a machine that augments a psion's teleportation ability to have interstellar range...

(could it be used as a weapon to teleport an enemy ship into a sun???)

 

[jfetters]

Good point, Sigg.

Indeed, wasn't one of Nilsen's rationales for the Empress Wave (or what it might change) the notion that there were two different physics rules at work with regards to Telepathy and Jump Physics?

 

[c_osborne]

Can anyone tell me what the USP on a Black Globe is used for? If I have 3 tons installed, it can absorb 108 points of damage. But how is the USP applied? And what happens if the capacitors hit their limit? Perhaps someone could walk me through a real brief example?

 

[mike wightman]

A black globe has three settings.
Off.
On. No weapon can fire in, all energy is absorbed into the ship's capacitors.
Flicher. The black globe switches on an off at a certain rate. This allows the ship to see out and maneuver, but it only absorbs a cerain percentage of incoming fire.
The USP x 10% is the flicker rate, so a USP 3 BG has a flicker rate of 30%.

Energy stored in tha capacitors can be used to power the ship's systems instead of using the power plant. If your ship absorbs more energy than the capacitors can hold it blows up.

See page 156.

 

[c_osborne]

Ah. I suppose it would help if I was looking on the right page. I just saw the design rules, and didn't see the combat section had additional detail. Thanks!

 

[Icosahedron]

I'd say that in the Ancient's time, starports would have AM on tap, or at least the major ones, so you could reach a fuel source before running out. Therefore there would be no need to manufacture it aboard, though that ability may develop at higher TLs. You were looking at a basic TL18 scoutship, and I very much doubt whether it would have an AM factory aboard. Imperial scoutships don't even have room for a fusion refinery.
Actually, for the very reason of fuel availability, the Ancients would probably use fusion drives for their scoutships anyway, saving AM drives for the spacelanes and tended vessels - but that's another story.

Does the ship have a powered (and fuelled) but psionically (remote) controlled Jump Drive, or is the ship psionically (magically) teleported without regard to input power?

 

[c_osborne]

I don't know. I was originally thinking more of a combination, where the psionic and fusion power somehow feed/enhance each other, so that fuel consumption is minimal, but it uses regular Jump (1 week). But now I'm waffling between Jump and Teleport, and struggling with the power system. I'm leaning towards high tech fusion, but squaring that against the tech level and the meson barbette and black globe is twisting me up a little. So I'm still playing with the numbers. I'm also considering making it from a different culture than the traditional droyne/Ancients, as somebody mentioned earlier.

 

[robject]

I'd suggest an antimatter power source with a few years' power. Less if you want to hook them onto hunting for ancient sites, in order to find replacement antimatter bricks (see Twilight's Peak).

And I like the previous post about the craft not having a jump drive, but instead having a teleportation-focusing device that magnifies the value of psi points spent on teleportation... enough to move the entire ship a couple parsecs. I'd require the psion to suffer some penalties for each effort, like physical damage, or simply exhaustion where he/she remains in a daze until psi points return to full.

For defenses, I think some PA or meson guns, meshed right to the hull, would do nicely.

I think TL18 would be fine, though TL21 fits too.

I also like the idea of an 8G M-drive. Make it a little bit flaky.

So, what's going to prevent them from selling this ship? Aside from the difficulty in finding a fair and honest buyer, that is.

 

[Border Reiver]

So, what's going to prevent them from selling this ship? Aside from the difficulty in finding a fair and honest buyer, that is.

Perhaps an Imperial Law about the declaration and handing over all ancient discoveries to the Scout Service.

Trying to hide the discovery and evading authorities will be an adventure in itself.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Ahhh, there is the rub. How many government agencies (including the secret ones) or megacorps (with their own private armies) want a piece of a fully functioning Ancient spacecraft?

IMTU, the players would be lucky to make it out of the first inhabited system they jumped into.

 

[c_osborne]

My campaign is set in TNE:1248. The Imperium is gone, and the players are in a system which has not been contacted from outside in over 100 years. The whole game is set up based on planetary politics and local issues. One of the PCs is a (powerless) noble who wants to usurp power and form a pocket empire. Given the current political situation, this ship may eventually give him a shot. If he figures out how to get it up and running, he won't dream of selling it. Eventually they may make contact with the 4th Imperium, but that's a LONG way off.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Ran Targas:
^ Ahhh, there is the rub. How many government agencies (including the secret ones) or megacorps (with their own private armies) want a piece of a fully functioning Ancient spacecraft?

IMTU, the players would be lucky to make it out of the first inhabited system they jumped into.

Note that the above comment is a plot hook, rather than a wet blanket.

Now that I've thought about it, that ship would be a great stealth craft. Not big enough to house a platoon of jump troops, but big enough for a noble with aspirations to jump between worlds in an effort to build up a 'county' or uber-feifdom.

Yes, this is a great tool for a pocket-empire builder.

 

[mike wightman]

Some thoughts:

GT Starships introduced the megathruster at ~TL17, they cost about six times a standard maneuver drive unit, and consume three times the energy, but they produce three times the acceleration.

I'd be tempted to have an antimatter power plant and a back up fusion reactor that can power the minimum systems, enough for life support, computer, and 1-3G of acceleration.

And speaking of antimatter power, both MT and FF&S allow AM power plants to get more efficient above TL17.
The MT version has the TL21 plant producing 100 times the energy of the TL17 plant, the FF&S version is a bit more conservative at only 20 times.

I'd go with a USP 9 black globe.

 

[robject]

I'll agree with Sigg about the back up power plant, except, well, I suggest the craft having some fancy sort of Adaptable Adapter that can draw power through any coupler. So if they're panicky about power problems they can buy a standard fusion plant and connect it up, for emergency power.

Finding an installation trustworthy enough to do this quietly is another plot hook, by the way.

I once guesstimated that the "antimatter battery" from Twilight's Peak could power a 200-ton ship for years. I have no basis for this guesstimation, but in fact it's a limitation on what otherwise is described as limitless current draw. Anyhow, the thing is 6cm x 4cm x 10cm, and weighs 2kg... in other words, size and mass are negligible.