Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I actually have that, Sam. It doesn't really give me any numbers to work with, IIRC. It's mostly narrative elements. (I will have to plug in my drive and look at it again, though.)
Probably E-bay and not cheap as a dead tree thing. This might fall under the "Canon of Sanger" and therefore not currently in distribution of any sort. Of course, if you were a torrent user, you might find someone who had scanned one in... sort of not-so-legitemately. But I wouldn't want to encourage such delinquence, despite the fact it wouldn't be stopping anyone from making their returns (since said property is not actually in any sort of available release). Anyway....
A minor quotation, WBH, DGP.... Atmo related details, step 12, pg 68:
2d6 for 10+ for native life
Mods:
Atm 0, -3
Atm 4-6, +4
Hyd 0, -2
Hyd 2-8, +1
Base temp below -20C, -1
Base temp over +30C, -1
Primary type G or K, +1
Primary type F, A or B, -1
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Hmmmm, the temperature bit will be tougher, since I'm not calculating all that stuff (yet). Would a good WAG be -1 if not in the Habitable Zone?
You could do that, but my experiences using Heaven and Earth (which does all that stuff for you according to advanced system generation rules) is that 'habitable zone' is a very broad term. You can generate some rather grossly uninhabitable planets (temparature wise, among other ways) while still in that zone. I'd be inclined to give a habitable zone planet no modifier and an inner or outer zone planet a -2 instead.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Which system generation method does H&E use, kaladorn? In LBB6, the habitable zone is exactly one orbit wide....
http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm
World Builder Deluxe (MT). That expands off of Book 6 to detail the worlds. My point was, with most of the examples I've seen which seem to be driven by some interesting forumlaic math, being in the habitable zone is no gaurantee of having reasonable temperature, atmospheric pressure, or gravity.
Being outside the zone makes having good values for these aspects tougher (though some moons of gas giants and such sometimes do), but essentially 'habitable zone' and a habitable world tend not to be exactly synonymous, at least not the way I'd define habitable with minimal assistance and actually living in the world's climate.
So that's why I was dubious about the habitable zone as a sufficiently good criteria. But if that's what you got and want to use, go for it.
H&E can really simplify your life though... press a few buttons and a wealth of data is available for you... :0)
World Builder Deluxe (MT). That expands off of Book 6 to detail the worlds. My point was, with most of the examples I've seen which seem to be driven by some interesting forumlaic math, being in the habitable zone is no gaurantee of having reasonable temperature, atmospheric pressure, or gravity.
Being outside the zone makes having good values for these aspects tougher (though some moons of gas giants and such sometimes do), but essentially 'habitable zone' and a habitable world tend not to be exactly synonymous, at least not the way I'd define habitable with minimal assistance and actually living in the world's climate.
So that's why I was dubious about the habitable zone as a sufficiently good criteria. But if that's what you got and want to use, go for it.
H&E can really simplify your life though... press a few buttons and a wealth of data is available for you... :0)
Greetings! I’m new to the forum. I played CT back in the 1980’s and am now coming back to the game after several years of D&D. I’m GMing a small group and we’re just kicking off a campaign. I purchased the CT and MT CD-ROMs from FFE, and went thru the PDF files looking for information on generating sophont races, as well as generating human evolutionary variations (dare I say ‘sub-species’) that have sprung from human seeding by the Ancients.
Note the fact that if the Ancients took humans from Terra up to 200-400k years ago (well within the ‘300k years ago’ of Traveller’s chronology) they would have been taking specimens of the Homo Sapiens Archaic species which predate Homo Sapiens Neandertalensis. The mankind of today (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) didn’t exist until approximately 200k years AFTER the Ancients took their specimens.
If you transplant the Homo Sapiens Archaic species on a world unlike Sol III, with differences in planetary size, atmosphere, hydrography, system star type and orbital position, a different evolution will take place. The world’s gravity and environment will affect the physical build. Cold climates tend to evolves more compact bodies; hot climates, lithe bodies. High gravity evolves stockier builds, light gravity, lighter builds. Atmospheric density (or lack thereof) will affect hearing organs, and speech organs. Sight organs can be affected by atmosphere, and the system star’s class. A world with a class O star would likely cause sight organs to evolve for vision in the ultra-violent range thru green range, but blind to red light. Derma will change color to adapt to the environment, likely influenced by solar radiation, diet (eat a lot of carrots and you’ll take on an orange hue) and even camouflage needed to hide from predators.
Darrians are a prime example of a human ‘sub-species.’ In Traveller Alien Module 8 ‘Darrians’ it states specifically that they originated from the Ancients seeding the planet 300,000 years ago. Thus, they are, by definition, human. The Darrians began as Homo Sapiens Archaic and evolved into (according to the book’s illustrations) gold-skinned, pointed-eared humanoids that are almost reminiscent of ‘elves.’ Since Darrians are considered ‘humans,’ but are certainly different from a Homo Sapiens Sapiens, one might argue that the progeny of Homo Sapiens Archaic who were seeded and evolved on a desert world with a thin atmosphere and exposure to a class K1 star (as well as a red and white dwarf) are also ‘humans.’ Some of you might recognize this loose description of the planet I describe as Vulcan from Star Trek. So would this race (these ‘Vulcans’) be considered ‘human’ (assuming they were carbon-based and had red blood, but still had pointed ears and differently evolved eyes)?
Having said all this, here is my real quandary: Does anyone know of an official Traveller (or Traveller-friendly) system to determine 1) if a world harbors an indigenous sentient race; and 2) the characteristics of that race if one is present? Also, is there a similar system for generating human ‘sub-species’ that have evolved from the Ancients seeding a planet?
When I played CT during high school, we had nothing available but the Traveller article “Anything but Human” found in Dragon Magazine #58. The article provided a system for generating aliens. It was possible to generate a typical human, or something radically different such as an insectoid, avian, or even crystalline or gaseous sentient. It provided a gamut of possibilities. But it did not address the chances of a race developing on a given planet; it was left to the GM to arbitrarily decide if a given planet had a sentient race or not. Such a chance should be dependent on a planet’s characteristics, including atmosphere, size, hydrography, and orbital position, not just the GM’s whim.
I don’t want to supplant humans in my campaign and replace them with thousands of aliens, but if Homo Sapiens Archaic was transplanted to thousands of other worlds, 300k years of evolution in these differing environments will result in many human sub-species. I want to add spice to may campaign by accounting for these sub-species. These species would have the same genetic roots, and all commonly humanoid (head, thorax, four limbs, fingers/toes, eyes, nose, mouth ears), but still diverse in appearance and abilities. They might hear/see in different sound/light frequency ranges, have different centers of gravity, different body builds, varying skin tones, etc.).
I also want to add color to the campaign by being able to reasonably account for some sentient indigenous species (i.e. sophonts) that developed on some worlds, whether or not humans were also seeded on that world. It is even possible that an indigenous species could exterminate or naturally succeed seeded humans, or vice-versa. Or coexistence might prevail.
If anyone could provide information where I could find such generation systems, official, unofficial, or home-brewed, I’d appreciate it.
Note the fact that if the Ancients took humans from Terra up to 200-400k years ago (well within the ‘300k years ago’ of Traveller’s chronology) they would have been taking specimens of the Homo Sapiens Archaic species which predate Homo Sapiens Neandertalensis. The mankind of today (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) didn’t exist until approximately 200k years AFTER the Ancients took their specimens.
If you transplant the Homo Sapiens Archaic species on a world unlike Sol III, with differences in planetary size, atmosphere, hydrography, system star type and orbital position, a different evolution will take place. The world’s gravity and environment will affect the physical build. Cold climates tend to evolves more compact bodies; hot climates, lithe bodies. High gravity evolves stockier builds, light gravity, lighter builds. Atmospheric density (or lack thereof) will affect hearing organs, and speech organs. Sight organs can be affected by atmosphere, and the system star’s class. A world with a class O star would likely cause sight organs to evolve for vision in the ultra-violent range thru green range, but blind to red light. Derma will change color to adapt to the environment, likely influenced by solar radiation, diet (eat a lot of carrots and you’ll take on an orange hue) and even camouflage needed to hide from predators.
Darrians are a prime example of a human ‘sub-species.’ In Traveller Alien Module 8 ‘Darrians’ it states specifically that they originated from the Ancients seeding the planet 300,000 years ago. Thus, they are, by definition, human. The Darrians began as Homo Sapiens Archaic and evolved into (according to the book’s illustrations) gold-skinned, pointed-eared humanoids that are almost reminiscent of ‘elves.’ Since Darrians are considered ‘humans,’ but are certainly different from a Homo Sapiens Sapiens, one might argue that the progeny of Homo Sapiens Archaic who were seeded and evolved on a desert world with a thin atmosphere and exposure to a class K1 star (as well as a red and white dwarf) are also ‘humans.’ Some of you might recognize this loose description of the planet I describe as Vulcan from Star Trek. So would this race (these ‘Vulcans’) be considered ‘human’ (assuming they were carbon-based and had red blood, but still had pointed ears and differently evolved eyes)?
Having said all this, here is my real quandary: Does anyone know of an official Traveller (or Traveller-friendly) system to determine 1) if a world harbors an indigenous sentient race; and 2) the characteristics of that race if one is present? Also, is there a similar system for generating human ‘sub-species’ that have evolved from the Ancients seeding a planet?
When I played CT during high school, we had nothing available but the Traveller article “Anything but Human” found in Dragon Magazine #58. The article provided a system for generating aliens. It was possible to generate a typical human, or something radically different such as an insectoid, avian, or even crystalline or gaseous sentient. It provided a gamut of possibilities. But it did not address the chances of a race developing on a given planet; it was left to the GM to arbitrarily decide if a given planet had a sentient race or not. Such a chance should be dependent on a planet’s characteristics, including atmosphere, size, hydrography, and orbital position, not just the GM’s whim.
I don’t want to supplant humans in my campaign and replace them with thousands of aliens, but if Homo Sapiens Archaic was transplanted to thousands of other worlds, 300k years of evolution in these differing environments will result in many human sub-species. I want to add spice to may campaign by accounting for these sub-species. These species would have the same genetic roots, and all commonly humanoid (head, thorax, four limbs, fingers/toes, eyes, nose, mouth ears), but still diverse in appearance and abilities. They might hear/see in different sound/light frequency ranges, have different centers of gravity, different body builds, varying skin tones, etc.).
I also want to add color to the campaign by being able to reasonably account for some sentient indigenous species (i.e. sophonts) that developed on some worlds, whether or not humans were also seeded on that world. It is even possible that an indigenous species could exterminate or naturally succeed seeded humans, or vice-versa. Or coexistence might prevail.
If anyone could provide information where I could find such generation systems, official, unofficial, or home-brewed, I’d appreciate it.
In my CT campaign aliens are quiet common, mostly due to my Beyond setting being a dumping ground for losers of various wars, population deportation by the Imperium & the Aslans, lost pre-Maghiz Darrian colonies, races/groups fleeing the Aslan & Imperium, malcontents, criminal syndicates, dreamers, & eccentric human cultures trying make their own world with their own rules. I admit I and most of my friends are xenophiles from an early age. I've pretty well played most of the races in Traveller & even played my version of a Bolo. So that does have a bearing on the type & setting I run.
When I first played Traveller, back when the world was young, I loved introducing aliens and alien planets - I used all the official CT alien modules I could find and wrote in lots of home-brew ones (or ones inspired by SF books I'd read).
My brand new Traveller is very different, and non-canonical. It's about three hundred years in the future, still during the human expansion onto the nearby planets, many of which need terraforming (not a short process) before being habitable. There has been no contact with any alien races.
Yet.
First contact is coming. I'm going to let my players get some adventuring under their belts, get familiar with the universe and their place in it. Then it gets lively...
I'd considered the merits of meeting an aggressive race (but largely discounted it as feeling too Kzin/Niven-esque). A shame since I like the idea of suddenly having a combat fleet turn up in Sol sector amongst the widely spread out and unprepared planets.
How lucky for Earth that first contact will be with the Hivers...
My brand new Traveller is very different, and non-canonical. It's about three hundred years in the future, still during the human expansion onto the nearby planets, many of which need terraforming (not a short process) before being habitable. There has been no contact with any alien races.
Yet.
First contact is coming. I'm going to let my players get some adventuring under their belts, get familiar with the universe and their place in it. Then it gets lively...
I'd considered the merits of meeting an aggressive race (but largely discounted it as feeling too Kzin/Niven-esque). A shame since I like the idea of suddenly having a combat fleet turn up in Sol sector amongst the widely spread out and unprepared planets.
How lucky for Earth that first contact will be with the Hivers...
steventirey1985
SOC-12
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...but it's alright if done sensibly, which you both have
See policy here:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/announcement.php?f=123
Carry on, and... Welcome Aboard bardbear
Last edited:
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Which are first published in Journal of the Travellers Aid Society No. 11... which was published in 1981.
Baron
SOC-12
Well, I didn't see the thread first time around, and why not comment?
I like aliens, and robots. IMTU, we have maybe 1/3 or 1/4 pc aliens. Had an android too. My cantinas don't look quite like Mos Eisely, humaniti is about 50%. Robots, eh, not too many in Traveller. Maybe I just need to find some rules I like. But I love the canon Traveller aliens.
I like aliens, and robots. IMTU, we have maybe 1/3 or 1/4 pc aliens. Had an android too. My cantinas don't look quite like Mos Eisely, humaniti is about 50%. Robots, eh, not too many in Traveller. Maybe I just need to find some rules I like. But I love the canon Traveller aliens.
Well, I didn't see the thread first time around, and why not comment?
I like aliens, and robots. IMTU, we have maybe 1/3 or 1/4 pc aliens. Had an android too. My cantinas don't look quite like Mos Eisely, humaniti is about 50%. Robots, eh, not too many in Traveller. Maybe I just need to find some rules I like. But I love the canon Traveller aliens.
Ditto. About 25% plus aliens ... Since I'm typically in the spinward Marches that's mostly Vargr, with some Droyne and whatever the local race is (depending on the planet).
As for robots, the most advanced are like those in "Dr Who and the Robots of Death". Even when they're not murderous they still seem a little creepy.
IMTU - Non-talking, limited AI robots are common.
Talking are pretty rare (usually hazardous duty), and even rarer still are the 'free' robots of higher intelligence - non-owned, almost citizens. They can have credits, but cannot 'own' anything. They have rights, but not quite on the level of sophonts - i.e. a judge can order 'memory scans', wipes, conditioning, modifications, etc. similar to issuing a warrant (i.e. Robot may not have representation).
Aliens are everywhere, but in count are typically less than 10% - except in their own systems, 'melting-pot' systems, and special medical facilities. No 'official' aliens at all.
Talking are pretty rare (usually hazardous duty), and even rarer still are the 'free' robots of higher intelligence - non-owned, almost citizens. They can have credits, but cannot 'own' anything. They have rights, but not quite on the level of sophonts - i.e. a judge can order 'memory scans', wipes, conditioning, modifications, etc. similar to issuing a warrant (i.e. Robot may not have representation).
Aliens are everywhere, but in count are typically less than 10% - except in their own systems, 'melting-pot' systems, and special medical facilities. No 'official' aliens at all.
At what TL do you have "intelligent" robots IYTU? I'm pretty sure they are at least TL 17 in the OTU, and the Imperium's only got TL 16 on a few worlds in the OTU.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Don't confuse intelligent with sentient.
The MT IE timeline had AI robots appearing during the Interstellar Wars period (Earth vs First Imperium).
Using LBB8 as the baseline robots from TL11+ we would classify as artificially intelligent - they can learn from experience for example.
The higher TL programming should really be called Artificial Sentience - or better yet Synthetic Sentience.
The MT IE timeline had AI robots appearing during the Interstellar Wars period (Earth vs First Imperium).
Using LBB8 as the baseline robots from TL11+ we would classify as artificially intelligent - they can learn from experience for example.
The higher TL programming should really be called Artificial Sentience - or better yet Synthetic Sentience.
IMTU - I use CT LBB3 TLs which have Model/1 computers at TL5 and AI at TL17. Being MTU (TUs actually, I change up regularly), the OTU's 'limits' are not really any concern of mine, but the TLs are probably from the same source.
So, IMTU:
Didn't have LBB 8 till the the Classic Reprints - so my robots were defined like characters with UPPs when necessary and not generated. They are pretty ubiquitous, but higher INT (AI) were manufactured at a high TL and would require such for repairs. Robots (and any tech) can be purchased - or in more advanced cases, gain employment - anywhere (baring 'legal' constraints).
My TL 17 AI 'definition' allows robots to make independent judgement calls - lower TL robots (represented with low, single digit INTs and EDU) are easily confused and literal in communications and must always have orders (falling back on 'standing orders') or static programming. However, AI is non-sentient, though may have advanced 'personality' programming. Sorta like STNG Data without 'feeling' chips.
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