CT Only: How I understand wounds and healing.

[mike wightman]

There are three wound states:

minor wound - no characteristic lowered to 0 so never unconscious
minor wound - one characteristic lowered to 0 so unconscious for 10 mins
serious wound - two characteristics lowered to 0

And then of course there is dead - all three lowered to 0.


The two different versions of minor wound are a pain - I would have preferred minor/light/serious or some such split but hey ho.


Once combat is over:

minor wound - all characteristics are raised to halfway between the reduced value due to wounds and the uninjured value.

Full recovery requires thirty minutes with a medi-kit and medic 1.

serious wound - both characteristics reduced to 0 are raised to 1, the third characteristic remains at the value it is at the end of combat.

Full recovery requires 5-30 days in a medical facility atended by a medic 3.

These rules just about cry out for house rules...

 

[rhialto]

This is something I've considered house-ruling, since I started Ref'ing with MgT: one characteristic at 0 is "lightly wounded", two at 0 is "unconscious" and "severely wounded", three is "mortally wounded" (mostly dead). Healing is then CT, RAW.

 

[Supplement Four]

There are three wound states:

minor wound - no characteristic lowered to 0 so never unconscious
minor wound - one characteristic lowered to 0 so unconscious for 10 mins
serious wound - two characteristics lowered to 0

And then of course there is dead - all three lowered to 0.

All correct.

Once combat is over:

minor wound - all characteristics are raised to halfway between the reduced value due to wounds and the uninjured value.

Not correct.

The raised to halfway thing only happens if the character were rendered unconscious.

If the character sustained a Minor Wound without being rendered unconscious, then his stats stay at the wounded level until healed (either through Medical help or Natural Healing).



This leads to some interesting situations with wound points, as I brought up in the other thread...

Take, for example, a character with these stats: 68A777. He is hurt, using the first blood rule, where damage is randomly applied to his END. Damage is 8 points.

After the combat, the character has taken a Minor Wound, and his stats are 682777 until healed.

Now, consider the same character (totally healed now) taking first blood damage in the amount of 10 points of damage. Randomly, damage is applied to END, which takes that stat to zero.

The character's stats become 680777, and he is unconscious.

In 10 minutes, he wakes up, and his stats automatically raise to 685777 until healed.

Here, less damage resulted in more stat damage to the character.

Back to your quotes...

Full recovery requires thirty minutes with a medi-kit and medic 1.

Minor Wounds can also meet full recovery after three days of rest through natural healing.

These rules just about cry out for house rules...

I don't think so. I think they're fine. They've served me well in my CT games.

I'm sure you've looked at the Healing Rules in JTAS...

 

[creativehum]

All Not correct.

The raised to halfway thing only happens if the character were rendered unconscious.

Not according to Book 1 (either edition) or the Errata regarding TTB regarding this specific issue.

It takes a very specific reading of a clumsy passage to reach this conclusion, ignoring other text (including the errata) to read it this way.

 

[Supplement Four]

Not according to Book 1 (either edition) or the Errata regarding TTB regarding this specific issue.

It takes a very specific reading of a clumsy passage to reach this conclusion, ignoring other text (including the errata) to read it this way.

That sounds like a retcon to me--somebody wanting the book to say what he wants (I've noticed that about the so called Errata).

Page 47 of TTB clearly states that, "(Minor Wounds) The character is treated as having the reduced characteristics until medical care or recovery has taken place."

I'm looking at 1982 LBB1 right now, and it does not dispute TTB. In fact, all that it does say about wound care is mirrored in TTB.

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's something interesting. It's probably written this way for the Snapshot game only.

In Snapshot, page 8 of the Little Green Book, it says...

In any case where the application of one die's wound points puts a characteristic at zero or below, the excess points on that die are lost.

This directly contradicts other Traveller wounding rules, where, excess points are carried over to another stat.



How I'm reading this is:

Digger has stats 776777.

He's been wounded before, so the First Blood rule doesn't apply. His normal, healed stats are 777777.

He gets shot, taking 3D damage: 5, 5, 4.

The player can take the two 5, 5 dice and apply them to one stat. He picks END. This lower his stats to 770777.

But, he still has the 4 dice. Which he decides to place on STR.

So, Digger is unconscious with stats 370777.





That's kinda interesting. I think I like that in that it's in the character's/player's favor. And, it's just plain easier than doing math and reducing rolled dice.

Once damage is rolled, you just have to take the dice as rolled and forget about having to lower any of them.

 

[mike wightman]

That sounds like a retcon to me--somebody wanting the book to say what he wants (I've noticed that about the so called Errata).

I didn't quite put it that way the other day but I think there is something to what you say.

Page 47 of TTB clearly states that, "(Minor Wounds) The character is treated as having the reduced characteristics until medical care or recovery has taken place."

You mean the same side bars that imply the first damage die from any attack is allocated against a random stat, and that there are critical hits in Traveller? :devil:

I'm looking at 1982 LBB1 right now, and it does not dispute TTB. In fact, all that it does say about wound care is mirrored in TTB.

LBB:1 was revised in 81 not 82


Now that I have that out of my system, the current rules do say what you say they say - and they are silly.

Bod 777 takes damage and is reduced to 225, at no time falling unconscious.

Dob 777 takes more damage and is reduced to 013, thus being rendered unconscious.

Both are suffering from nothing more than minor wounds.

No one has a medikit and their ride is a few days hike away so they set off
Bod is at 225, while the wounded Dob who took more damage and was unconscious is at 345. Dob is in better shape despite having taken more damage and being rendered unconscious because he gets to raise all his wounded stats.

Get this right - after the combat the more severely injured character actually ends up with higher stats than the relatively lightly wounded character - this is silly and hence why the rule was in receipt of errata (which is how I did it from just about day one anyway).

 

[Supplement Four]

You mean the same side bars that imply the first damage die from any attack is allocated against a random stat, and that there are critical hits in Traveller? :devil:

Not quite.

The text on pages 35-36 describe healing. Minor Wound without unconsciousness--one stat at zero--is discussed, but the flip side is not. Perhaps they thought it obvious.

But, it is cleared up in the "bullet points" on the combat cheat sheet pages, page 47.

With our first damage question, that is rendered moot from the example on page 36.

 

[Supplement Four]

LBB:1 was revised in 81 not 82

Sorry. You are correct!

Now that I have that out of my system, the current rules do say what you say they say - and they are silly.

I don't think so at all.

Bod 777 takes damage and is reduced to 225, at no time falling unconscious.

Dob 777 takes more damage and is reduced to 013, thus being rendered unconscious.

Both are suffering from nothing more than minor wounds.

No one has a medikit and their ride is a few days hike away so they set off
Bod is at 225, while the wounded Dob who took more damage and was unconscious is at 345. Dob is in better shape despite having taken more damage and being rendered unconscious because he gets to raise all his wounded stats.

Consider this...

AD&D Reference.

1st level Fighter Joe has 6 hit points. He is hit by a foe using a longsword that does 1d8 damage. Damage rolled 5 +2 for STR, for a total of 7 points.

Fighter Joe dies.

Next to him is 4th level Thief Rick, who has 12 hit points. He is hit by the same foe, and, whaddaya know, the same damage is rolled. 5 points +2, for a total of 7 points of damage.

Thief Rick continues to fight on with no penalties (other than having less hit points).




Could it be that you are viewing damage points and a Traveller characters "hit points" too literally and not considering the abstract nature of Traveller combat?

 

[mike wightman]

Nope.

Traveller isn't AD&D, and characteristics aren't hit points - I could quote the AD&D reference to what hit points represent but I'm sure you are aware of the passage in the DMG.


In my example two identical characters suffer damage, the more seriously damaged ends up with higher stats and less damage reduction to their stats because of a silly rule oversight easily corrected.

 

[Supplement Four]

Traveller isn't AD&D, and characteristics aren't hit points - I could quote the AD&D reference to what hit points represent but I'm sure you are aware of the passage in the DMG.

Again, you are ignoring the abstract nature of Traveller damage.



If Digger, 777777, is shot by a gun doing 3D damage: 5, 5, 3. And, the first blood rule kicks in so that he ends up with stats: 017777.

Then, he collapses, unconscious, with a minor wound.



If Digger's friend, Bran, 8EA789 is shot by a gun doing 3D damage: 5, 5, 3. And, the first blood rule kicks in so that he ends up with stats: 81A777.

Then, he continues to function normally. Even his DEX is considered to still be 14 for all practical purposes.



If Bran's brother, Froe, 2478A9, is shot by a gun doing 3D damage: 5, 5, 3. And, the first blood rule kicks in so that Froe ends up dead! 0008A9.


Do you not see the abstract nature of "hit points" in Traveller, akin to those in AD&D?

In my example two identical characters suffer damage, the more seriously damaged ends up with higher stats and less damage reduction to their stats because of a silly rule oversight easily corrected.

That was my example, too, in two different threads (one responding to you).

Your point is that the higher damage rolled means more damage to the character.

I object to that. It's not always true, as I proved above.

So...did your example show MORE damage for the one who ended up with higher stats?

No. You've got to look at the consequences of the damage--not just the damage points.

10 points of first blood damage means different things to different characters.

It means death for a character with stats 522794.

It means nothing but a minor wound for a character with stats 5B6AA6, if the damage lands on DEX.

It means a serious wound for a character with stats 55A455, if the damage lands on STR then DEX.

Damage amount means different things in different circumstances.

 

[mike wightman]

The rule is silly and should have been rewritten years ago.

Two identical characters.

That one can take more damage and is rendered unconscious and yet ends up with higher characteristics post combat is silly and I believe an oversight easily corrected.

You will not change my mind on this.

 

[Supplement Four]

The rule is silly and should have been rewritten years ago.

Two identical characters.

That one can take more damage and is rendered unconscious and yet ends up with higher characteristics post combat is silly and I believe an oversight easily corrected.

I don't think so. The game went through several revisions.

I like the game the way it is.

Many RPGs have abstract hit points.

You will not change my mind on this.

Okey doke.:coffeesip:

 

[Brandon C]

The rule is silly and should have been rewritten years ago.

Two identical characters.

That one can take more damage and is rendered unconscious and yet ends up with higher characteristics post combat is silly and I believe an oversight easily corrected.

You will not change my mind on this.

I agree with you on this, but like I said I abandoned the RAW as soon as I found another way to handle damage.