How Politically Correct is your TU?

[Liam Devlin]

WARNING
This topic was inspired by citizen Stormraven, and OOC-chats with my players on RPG-Live /Lonestar Room SUnday chats(Blacklight, Eak,Maspy, Ellros,Bryan Gibson,Shane McLean,Mark A Siefert,Valen, Chron, and myself). Supplemental input from The Mink, in a post on random static on what would be the mores of the Imperium in 57th century?

So lets put on our thinking caps again...shall we?
This "IMTU" page, so I'll start us out:

In my Imperium, the 57th century Certain behaviours plaguing the here and now, have been resolved.

IMTU, members of the armed forces aboard Starships are given Birth control implants ( a select few opt out of this, due to genetic aversion/ faith based beliefs).

IMTU There are Bi& Homosexuals in the armed forces. As per regulations regarding relationships, such shall occur during non-duty hours.

IMTU Relationships will occur(in the services), but will be maintained during the personnel's "off-duty" time. Partners must be of equal rank if in same section/ department, etc. There will be no abuse of ranking personnel over junior personnel, officer or enlisted. *Note This applies to the previous two paragraphs in cumulative effect!

IMTU The Imperium has many religious beliefs, and a such allows freedom of worship, and that no religion shall place itself above another in the eyes of Imperial law. Religions which are intolerant of others will be respected so long as they recognize/ obey Imperial law..(Jihads gets the Imperium involved militarily!)

IMTU The Imperium, practices pan sophontism to all species designated by IISS/ Approved by The Imperial Bureau of Sophontry as sentient. Discrimination of race, specie(sentient), creed, color, or belief is a violation of Imperial law. (enforcement is hard, but the IMOJ is has jurisdiction on Imperial member worlds).

This is not to say its a "perfect TU", breaches in the above occur, and there are penalties (some more severe than others).

Marriages/ polygamy/ same sex unions:
There are a myriad form of marriages, based on cultures of minor human races, Terran, Zhodani, and Solomani influences, to include Line -marriage in starfaring wandering folk (Belters, Free Traders); As the Imperium recognizes no religion as superior over another, It also holds that any union entered into by Imperial magistrate of members of the same sex is legal and valid for tax purposes, as say a marriage of several individuals of mixed genders (line-marriage), and benefits thereof.

IMTU, "officially" Psionics are frowned upon, and considered Illegal, by Imperial edicts going back to the PSi suppressions.
(Unofficially, INI, and several Intelligence services maintain trained Psi personnel in their rosters for actions versus powers outside the Imperium (notably the Solomani/ Zhodani).

 

[Ben W Bell]

What's Political Correctness? Oh that thing that allows people to discriminate against others legally.

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
In my Imperium, the 57th century Certain behaviours plaguing the here and now, have been resolved.

IMTU, members of the armed forces aboard Starships are given Birth control implants ( a select few opt out of this, due to genetic aversion/ faith based beliefs). ).

Same here. They also get access to "shore leave" (temporary multi-day birth control) and "morning after" shots if implants are impractical.

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:

IMTU There are Bi& Homosexuals in the armed forces. As per regulations regarding relationships, such shall occur during non-duty hours.

IMTU Relationships will occur(in the services), but will be maintained during the personnel's "off-duty" time. Partners must be of equal rank if in same section/ department, etc. There will be no abuse of ranking personnel over junior personnel, officer or enlisted. *Note This applies to the previous two paragraphs in cumulative effect!

IMTU I use the non-frat regulation, especially shipboard. Off-duty is really 24/7 on call. This regulation is slightly relaxed during R&R and Shore Leave.

Another rule I use is similar to the old no marriage rule the US use to have. This is applied to non-NCO enlisted and junior officers. It's based on the concept of not having the members distracted with domestic problems, where thier main concern should be the mission, unit, and team buddies. An officer or NCO can be asked or ordered not to get married if his fellow officers/ncos or superior feel and prove it can negatively affect his performance.

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:

Marriages/ polygamy/ same sex unions:
There are a myriad form of marriages, based on cultures of minor human races, Terran, Zhodani, and Solomani influences, to include Line -marriage in starfaring wandering folk (Belters, Free Traders); As the Imperium recognizes no religion as superior over another, It also holds that any union entered into by Imperial magistrate of members of the same sex is legal and valid for tax purposes, as say a marriage of several individuals of mixed genders (line-marriage), and benefits thereof.

I take it you are talking about marriages that are "consecrated" thru an Imperial office or shipboard. IMTU the Imperium recognize all forms of marriage, but the member worlds don't have to recognize them if it goes against the local laws, customs, and religon. They do recognize visting married couples as family for things like next-of-kin, medical emergencies, and child guardianship. They just can't get local benefits that required a particularly defined form of marriage.

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:

IMTU, "officially" Psionics are frowned upon, and considered Illegal, by Imperial edicts going back to the PSi suppressions.
(Unofficially, INI, and several Intelligence services maintain trained Psi personnel in their rosters for actions versus powers outside the Imperium (notably the Solomani/ Zhodani).

Depending the circumstance and who catches them, the PC could be "paroled" into service with some agency or trusted noble.

 

[Ellros]

I'd have to say all your views pretty much parallel mine Liam. It's pretty much the same IMTU. Good post btw.

 

[Scarlett]

IMTU ...

Kirk never surrenders (well ... he may pretend to surrender but then he somehow tricks `em then kills all of `em)

Kirk will get laid. Other crewmembers may get laid as well. But Kirk definately will. Preferably shortly before or after killin' somethin'.

All alien races are under suspician. Most of the human race is under suspician. On the surface we treat everyone very diplomatically. Kirk is a great diplomat. But when the suspicians are confirmed Kirk gets to kill them.

Sulu gets to occasionally take off his shirt and brandish a sword.

Chekov knows deep down that every major accomplishment of humankind can be credited to the Russians. Everyone else laughs at him behind his back. Except the occasioanal blond bimbo that somehow gets past Kirk and gets laid by Chekov.

Uhura is a communications specialist that, for the most part, is there to tell the Captain that there's an urgent communique from Starfleet Command or "some ancient form of communication" (morse, etc) that she was never taught in communications school. Other than that her job is to keep her skirt as close to the limit as possible with her legs crossed.

Scotty is the chief engineer and always needs more time to do the job but always manages to do it just in the nick of time anyway. He also doubles as the security chief and oversees the "beam down and die within five minutes" training.

Mcoy is a Doctor not a (insert whatever he doesn't feel like doing), dammit!

Spock has pointed ears and issues that have to surface every other episode when his human side and his vulcan side decide there isn't enough room in "this here body" to co-exist.

Oh ... wait ... that's my STU.

 

[themink]

My imperium doesn;t recognise marraige in any form.

That is to say that there is no legal effect of marraige. It doesn't affect pensions, income or assets.

All actual assets have a "registered" homeworld. This worlds local ordinance governs inheritence etc. This mainly effects ships.

I have had players "buy" a ship and then travel to it's homeworld to get the sale registered only to find that the ship is entailed and cannot be sold.

Yes the origional seller commited a crime under local law, however they were lost deep in the spaceways with their ill-gotten gains.

Since it was entailed away, the courts ruled that the players had use of it until the origional owner was declared dead whereupon it would revert to the next of kin - SO the players started hunting the origional owner, to keep him alive! (and bring him back to court to get their money)

My imperium doesn't allow psionics in any form. People who experience psionic episodes are to report to the local authorities and are never seen again.

There are rumors that:-
i) all psionics share a group mind and it is ruled by an ancient zhodani who is evil beyond belief.
ii) you can gain psionic powers by engaging is a bizarre act - the nature of the act varies depending on the beliefs of the teller.
iii) psionics that register are shipped to a pleasure planet where they have their every whim satisfied whilst working for the givernment.

My imperium doesn't take any notice of religious matters. They treat a church as if it were any other business.

My imperium does not allow crewmembers religious beliefs to interfere with their duty (ie you work on a holy day if that is what the roster says)

My imperium has severe penalties for imperial crew who have sex whilst on shipboard. In theory at least. Origionally introduced to stop shipboard romances, needless to say, it doesn;t work.

There is no account taken of the actual sex of crew members, so men/women/hermaphrodites can end up sharing dual occupancy cabins.

There is a fairly strong social pressure on the nobility to engage in a monogamous hetrosexual relationship and produce offspring without severe medical intervention however there have been the occassional one who didn;t bend to pressure.

Imperial titles can only have one holder at a time and the holder must be an adult - This often clashes with local laws.

 

[Falkayn]

Haven't thought about many of these questions (my players were never much into relationships). But much of that doesn't matter IMTU, because the 3I takes a big step back from even bothering to cover many of those questions.

IMTU, the Imperium doesn't care if its legal to have 3 wives on your homeworld, as long as it IS legal there, they won't bother you elsewhere (even if it's illegal there, extradition will depend upon relationships between local worlds/nobles and not the 3I). The MOJ cares about many things people do, but only as they relate to interstellar peace and trade.

A jihad is fine, so long as it remains on your own world and does not involve offworlders. Go ahead and kill all the Xs or Ys or Zs, the Imperium doesn't care and won't stop you, heck go ahead and tell other worlds they should do the same. Just don't be surprised when the TAS slaps an Amber zone on your world.

The Imperium is BIG, and cold, and unfriendly. It was designed to foster trade and peaceful relations between worlds, full stop. 'Peaceful' is defined as you are not shooting at each other, and thus requiring Imperial Navy intervention.

Now lots of parts of the 3I are much nicer than this sounds, but that is because the local worlds are run with an eye to looking after both their citizens' interests and those of offworlders. Some worlds are unpleasant to live near, or on, but still manage to attract some people. Other worlds are just plain nasty, and nearly everyone on them wants to get off.

I guess I'm saying that IMTU, the big interstellar states care about big interstellar issues, and leave the piddly 'getting on with each other' stuff to individual worlds.

EDIT:
I should point out that nobles (esp. Imperial ones) have the ability to ask the 3I to step in where it might otherwise not. So if the local Baron is against that jihad, he might request Imperial Marines come break up the party. After all, an Imperial Noble's interests are always in the best interests of the Imperium ...

 

[themink]

You still need to thing about how the "little" stuff effects interstellar trade.

What rights/obligations apply if you employ someone (ie can next of kin sue your corp for negligence after a misjump)

How does noble inheritence work - That is where relationships really matter. Can a clone child inherit? Can a child of adultery inherit? Can a daughter inherit for a man? Can a son inherit from a mother? Does the sex of the parent matter at all (ie can a hermaphrodite inherit? Can a child born after the death of the title owner inherit? Can a child conceived after their death inherit?

I like the last one. Pick a childless emporer - then say a medical person has some froze sperm. A Child of the emporer may then inherit the entire imperium! Contract the players to steal the frozen sperm, so that you can destroy it to reduce the threat of civil war.

What rights to parents have to control the children - when does it end. You may think that this only applies on homeworlds, but when can a sophant sign a legal contract and have it binding? Is there a "test for adulthood" followed by the loyalty oath (one of my favourites)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by BenBell:
What's Political Correctness? Oh that thing that allows people to discriminate against others legally.

------------------------------------------------
At the risk of being PUNNY, ye are correct in yer definition,.... sir!

 

[Liam Devlin]

FLS' STU:

As they say in Texas when I visit..."Uh huh!"( and can be applied in any manner the 101 uses forHoo-AHH can, I believe)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by The Mink:
My imperium doesn;t recognise marraige in any form.

That is to say that there is no legal effect of marraige. It doesn't affect pensions, income or assets.

All actual assets have a "registered" homeworld. This worlds local ordinance governs inheritence etc. This mainly effects ships.

I have had players "buy" a ship and then travel to it's homeworld to get the sale registered only to find that the ship is entailed and cannot be sold.

Yes the origional seller commited a crime under local law, however they were lost deep in the spaceways with their ill-gotten gains.

Since it was entailed away, the courts ruled that the players had use of it until the origional owner was declared dead whereupon it would revert to the next of kin - SO the players started hunting the origional owner, to keep him alive! (and bring him back to court to get their money)
_________________________________________________
Nice Touch Mink-icentive to adventure!!!I likes it lots
__________________________________________________

My imperium doesn't allow psionics in any form. People who experience psionic episodes are to report to the local authorities and are never seen again.

There are rumors that:-
i) all psionics share a group mind and it is ruled by an ancient zhodani who is evil beyond belief.
ii) you can gain psionic powers by engaging is a bizarre act - the nature of the act varies depending on the beliefs of the teller.
iii) psionics that register are shipped to a pleasure planet where they have their every whim satisfied whilst working for the givernment.

My imperium doesn't take any notice of religious matters. They treat a church as if it were any other business.

My imperium does not allow crewmembers religious beliefs to interfere with their duty (ie you work on a holy day if that is what the roster says)

My imperium has severe penalties for imperial crew who have sex whilst on shipboard. In theory at least. Origionally introduced to stop shipboard romances, needless to say, it doesn;t work.{/qb]
_________________________________________________
Which is why I have the "Imperial rules fer realtionships/ BC, etc..ye can try, but humans are humans!
_________________________________________________
[qb]There is no account taken of the actual sex of crew members, so men/women/hermaphrodites can end up sharing dual occupancy cabins.
_________________________________________________
Dittoes, in mine.
_________________________________________________
There is a fairly strong social pressure on the nobility to engage in a monogamous hetrosexual relationship and produce offspring without severe medical intervention however there have been the occassional one who didn;t bend to pressure.

Imperial titles can only have one holder at a time and the holder must be an adult - This often clashes with local laws.

_________________________________________________
IMTU, local age of consent laws = to adulhood where the nobility succession age is concerned. This can lead to Imperial appointed "regents" of course to take the young noble in tutellage, etc...mentorship.(cynically, making sure the Imperium's interests are taught/ upheld, etc).

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by The Mink:
You still need to thing about how the "little" stuff effects interstellar trade.

Oh yes, I agree with you there.

What rights/obligations apply if you employ someone (ie can next of kin sue your corp for negligence after a misjump)

Employment laws would be a mix of Imperial and local. Imperial would probably simply define slavery and paid work, and how two worlds with conflicting local laws can resolve their difference of opinions.

How does noble inheritence work - That is where relationships really matter. Can a clone child inherit? Can a child of adultery inherit? Can a daughter inherit for a man? Can a son inherit from a mother? Does the sex of the parent matter at all (ie can a hermaphrodite inherit? Can a child born after the death of the title owner inherit? Can a child conceived after their death inherit?

Sepends upon the sector/subsector/world you're from/inheriting in the jurisdiction of.

I like the last one. Pick a childless emporer - then say a medical person has some froze sperm. A Child of the emporer may then inherit the entire imperium! Contract the players to steal the frozen sperm, so that you can destroy it to reduce the threat of civil war.

Imperial law does define how this happens. It happens to match the laws of the Imperium's capital.

What rights to parents have to control the children - when does it end. You may think that this only applies on homeworlds, but when can a sophant sign a legal contract and have it binding? Is there a "test for adulthood" followed by the loyalty oath (one of my favourites)

IMTU the Imperial armed forces are by no means monolithic organisations with one set of rules, uniforms, etc. It would simply take too long to distribute changes to the rules. Instead these things are set at the sector level, and then modified at the subsector level. They are different in that they have some consistency between worlds. Having said that, there are obvious minimum standards (like definitions of loyalty to the Empire/Emperor, treason, etc).

In terms of trade laws, it pretty much is left to local authorities to determine these things. In a strong, well-ruled Domain that may mean there is a lot of standardisation, in an unruly frontier subsector (like Five Sisters?) that may mean there is a lot more variance. There may be megacorporates who have Imperial patents and thus their own favourite set of laws to run under, who must be accomodated by local law enforcement authorities (letting them abuse on the one hand, and free from oppression with the other).

IOW, expect the weird, the politically incorrect, the fascist, the liberal, the strange, perverse, lovely and gentle. Just don't expect them all to be laid in stone. If Margaret wants to encourage slavery then that is fine. If another leader wants to ban slavery then that is fine too.

If you want to think of it another way ... the Imperium exists for its people, not them for it. Therefore the people (more practically, the nobles) are allowed to decide what is right for them. Frankly I can't see the Imperium running any other way. The Zhodani and the ZS may have strived for cultural uniformity, but the 3I has given up on that particular battle. They admit that the only 'political correctness' is what's expedient to the people making that judgement.

 

[thomryng]

Originally posted by Falkayn:
If Margaret wants to encourage slavery then that is fine. If another leader wants to ban slavery then that is fine too.

I thought slavery was specifically prohibited by Imperial High Law - or am I misremembering?

thom

 

[trader jim]

I, myself, me, inreal life AM NOT politicaly correct!!!!!.....i feel i am am still a free thinking man!!!!....at least i like to think i am not under the control of the government...not yet any way...therefor....my TU is NOT politicaly correct....anything goes short of murder...

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Ellros:
I'd have to say all your views pretty much parallel mine Liam. It's pretty much the same IMTU. Good post btw.

------------------------------------------------
Thank you sir,
I realized while we were gaming, and then when answering another post elsewhere on this board, how different RL and IMTU were, and lest any thought I applied "too much RL" to a universe where a lot of things have changed (an Interstellar Imperium with FTL communications is gonna have to adapt, and be flexible socially, and economically, lets face it), I thought it might be useful for such a thing to be discussed.

The term "politically correct" is an emotionally charged one. With the MT-Domain regionalism of the Imperium applied, there are some constants throughout, but regional issues for the Domain rulers still give those sectors a different take on the "Imperium" from say...our standard rule of thumb, Spinward Marches.

 

[Ben W Bell]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BenBell:
What's Political Correctness? Oh that thing that allows people to discriminate against others legally.

------------------------------------------------
At the risk of being PUNNY, ye are correct in yer definition,.... sir!</font>[/QUOTE]Whooo. Did me and Liam just agree on something here?

 

[plop101]

How politicaly correct is my Traveller Universe? My response:

ALL IMTU FOR SECURITY REASONS:

Now it can be told...

Ministry of Justice Bulletin #20394857a

Authorities have arrested citizens [names withheld for security reasons], for
attempting to obtain classified Ministry of Justice files. The files in question
related to the operations of the starship 'Wicked Wanda', its role in the
Norris/Santanocheev affair, the activities of Ciencia Iphegenia and Isis Arepo
Ilethian, and the role of Solsec agent Barbarella. The criminals in question will
be processed and sent to the Imperial Reeducation Center at Pixie.

The Ministry of Justice wishes to inform all of its citizens that attempting to obtain
classified information is a serious crime.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Rodina]

My view is that Imperial Law, on matters of marriage and family, is offically agnostic. Local laws can be whatever they want about marriage - and can punish (or at least expel) people for behaving in a certain fashion.

That said, anyone in the service of the Imperium (civil service, military, etc.) is entitled to practice their religion/faith/marriage customs free from interference of local law.

Now, in most cases, a Governor-General (the lead representative of the Emperor on each planet whose authority is separate from the lead nobel (although it is OFTEN the same person)) will try not to have civil servants who are really at odds with local customs (i.e., a man who believes gluttony is proof of divine favor might not be welcome on a planet in the midst of famine) - but the GG is still required to protect that servant from local oppression - and that civil servant is required, by Imperial Law, to be free from such local oppression.

Note that a regular traveller, not in the pay of the Imperium, won't have that same legal protection.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by BenBell:

Whooo. Did me and Liam just agree on something here?

-------------------------------------------------
AYe. Mark it down as a first (I did seem to recall ourr agrement on GRIP, so this actually a second!). "Sir".

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BenBell:

Whooo. Did me and Liam just agree on something here?

-------------------------------------------------
AYe. Mark it down as a first (I did seem to recall ourr agrement on GRIP, so this actually a second!). "Sir".</font>

Now we need to see which of two will concede regarding Iraq and War on Terrorism.

<He quickly runs into a nearby bunker, hoping noone has HEAP rounds>