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I notice a distinct lack of Bots and Droids

Never! I will never suspend disbelief! I will ... oh wait, I'm playing Sci Fi.

Never mind. :D

,snip.
Neat explanation for YTU, I may steal some of it.

And now the but...

why not transport your TL 15 nano factory components via STL - ships in the OTU can achieve 0.8 to 0.9c (Imperium, Dark Nebula) to transport critical components through normal space.

Or take the blueprints for building the infrastructure/machinery locally.
 
It is known that the Hivers have developed a solution, but the nature of the solution is not known and the Hivers are not telling.

Great rationalisation for limiting the prevalence of robots, but this bit may be going too far. After how many hundreds of years of contact, there's been no slip-up, espionage, or greed-driven betrayal by a human that has seen sufficient material fall into the hands of 3I corps for them to replicate the process?

Or take the blueprints for building the infrastructure/machinery locally.

Yeah, that's the means!
 
...
why not transport your TL 15 nano factory components via STL - ships in the OTU can achieve 0.8 to 0.9c (Imperium, Dark Nebula) to transport critical components through normal space.

Or take the blueprints for building the infrastructure/machinery locally.

If you take the blueprints for a house and don't have a hammer or a saw, your effort is going to be somewhat handicapped. That's basically what I'm looking at. Any Trav world is a leg up in that the research has already been done - they're not going blind into the great unknown. However, they are in a "having to build the tools to build the tools to build the tools" situation. A concerted effort could accomplish it in a reasonable time, but it would cost a chunk of credits. The Imperium could afford it out of petty cash, but they don't consider it their responsibility. A megacorp, even a smallish one, could fund it easily if it were in their interests to do so - many local governments are leery of being dependent on a megacorp to that degree, so it's most likely to be proprietary and limited where they do that, not something that affects the planet's tech level as a whole. Most decent-size planetary governments could do it if they set their minds to it, as could a consortium of major planetary corporations, but getting a government to commit to any , and corporations are much like cats.

I'm not ruling out the slowboat method, but I'm not buying 0.8c. Space is not so vacuumy when you're traversing 240 million meters every second. You're encountering hydrogen and helium atoms, sometimes grains of dust - and you're encountering them at 0.8c. At those speeds the individual atoms have the force of cosmic rays, and the overall intensity is several orders of magnitude more powerful than space at a standstill. The occasional grain of dust is like a needlepoint of superheated plasma lancing through your ship; does not sound like it would be healthy for the components along its path.

Further, the interstellar region varies from densities under a molecule per cubic centimeter to as dense as 106 molecules per cubic centimeter (still 1/1013 the density of air). If you should encounter a dense patch, you're encountering impact energies on the order of 11,500 joules per square centimeter per second. By comparison 14 thousand joules will melt a 7 cubic centimeter block of iron. Another way to view it is like having 30 kilograms of TNT go off per square meter of hull every second. In short, unless you're very, very good at mapping and avoiding such patches, or at getting rid of the excess heat when you hit one, the bow of your ship melts.

Adventure 5 describes a 2000 year flight to reach the Island Clusters, and that suggested a speed no better than about 0.1c. I'm not clear what they were doing for fuel on that route - possibly the ship was mostly fuel, but that's not our issue at the moment. Top safe speed might be as much as 0.2c. 16 to 32 years for your investment to arrive may be doable or not depending on your view of things.

Great rationalisation for limiting the prevalence of robots, but this bit may be going too far. After how many hundreds of years of contact, there's been no slip-up, espionage, or greed-driven betrayal by a human that has seen sufficient material fall into the hands of 3I corps for them to replicate the process?

From the Hivers? The master manipulators? TL15? I'd have to say no. There's a couple of sectors between the Hivers and the Imperium, either Solomani space or a scattering of minor states, so contact tends to be pretty indirect. As I said, the Imperial gov't itself hasn't shown notable interest in tackling the issue, which leaves it to the corporate players, and I don't believe the corporate players with the motive to try have clandestine reach that extends through a couple of sectors of minor states and into Hiver space. And, if the Hivers are motivated to keep that a trade secret then I doubt there'd be any humans, greedy or otherwise, who'd be in possession of knowledge to betray. You'd have better luck dressing up in a horse costume and trying to spy on the K'Kree. :D
 
The game needs people to realize that it's not a futurist model of reality


Hans


The game needs to change or drop its "Far Future" tag. Mainly because too much of it belongs to the past while describing that it is our future it is describing... Should read, "Science Fiction Gaming in an alternative universe" Otherwiseit just dates the game and erodes its ability to be accepted by new gamers.
 
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The game needs to change or drop its "Far Future" tag. Mainly because too much of it belongs to the past while describing that it is our future it is describing... Should read, "Science Fiction Gaming in an alternative universe" Otherwise it just dates the game and erodes its ability to be accepted by new gamers.

You think people really need to be told that an imaginary far future is imaginary? You may be on to something there. Some people probably do need to have that pointed out to them. I certainly would be much more ready to change a tag than to ignore 35 years' worth of accumulated setting details.

Science Fiction in an Imaginary Far Future!

Sort of redundant, though, so perhaps

Science Fiction in a Classic Far Future!


Works for me.


Hans
 
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The game needs to change or drop its "Far Future" tag. Mainly because too much of it belongs to the past while describing that it is our future it is describing... Should read, "Science Fiction Gaming in an alternative universe" Otherwise it just dates the game and erodes its ability to be accepted by new gamers.

TransHuman Space and Eclipse Phase certainly have their fanbases. Both showcase the challenges of being a murderhobo in a futurist setting. There are solid psychological reasons for why the most successful SF RPGs and wargame settings are retro.

You've stated many times that you have your own setting. Mongoose provides the license, and places like RPGNow provide the ability to publish. There is even a forum that sympathizes with you. It just isn't run by FFE or Mongoose.
 
TransHuman Space and Eclipse Phase certainly have their fanbases. Both showcase the challenges of being a murderhobo in a futurist setting. There are solid psychological reasons for why the most successful SF RPGs and wargame settings are retro.
Hey, even better!

Science Fiction in a retro Far Future!


Hans
 
The game needs to change or drop its "Far Future" tag. Mainly because too much of it belongs to the past while describing that it is our future it is describing... Should read, "Science Fiction Gaming in an alternative universe" Otherwiseit just dates the game and erodes its ability to be accepted by new gamers.

Because ... ?

I don't think people dive into a game because they like the physics. That certainly didn't make Gamma World or Paranoia any less fun. I'm certainly not going to stop reading Niven just because someone shows there's a problem with ramscoop engines - and it occurs to me there's a startling lack of robots in his universe as well.

The thing that is most likely to enhance or erode a game's ability to be accepted by new gamers is whether or not it's fun to play. Whether or not it's a good prediction of what interstellar society will look like in a few thousand years, in the opinion of the person who sits down to play it - I'm not even sure that makes the list.
 
So reading this it seems to have devolved to For or against Robot PCs, and the true answer there is it Depends. Mostly on the game you are playing.

I for one am in the exceptional Robot as a possible PC a'la the classic Campaign as portrayed in Traveller's Digest. But mostly bots are appliances (Do you have the zero-g window washer in Almond?), directed and used by people with the appropriate skills as a extension of their skill set. Also their economic viability depends on the local world population and technical index.
 
So reading this it seems to have devolved to For or against Robot PCs, and the true answer there is it Depends. Mostly on the game you are playing.

I for one am in the exceptional Robot as a possible PC a'la the classic Campaign as portrayed in Traveller's Digest. But mostly bots are appliances (Do you have the zero-g window washer in Almond?), directed and used by people with the appropriate skills as a extension of their skill set. Also their economic viability depends on the local world population and technical index.

Robot player characters? Did I miss an entry? When did we start talking about robot player characters?

Imperium doesn't have the tech to support a robot PC unless one is eager to play a butler or other one-dimensional servant. Hivers were supposedly working in that direction, but it'd still be a pretty limited character? I thought we were discussing humaniform robots and NPCs.
 
Robot player characters? Did I miss an entry? When did we start talking about robot player characters?

Imperium doesn't have the tech to support a robot PC unless one is eager to play a butler or other one-dimensional servant. Hivers were supposedly working in that direction, but it'd still be a pretty limited character? I thought we were discussing humaniform robots and NPCs.
I take it you have never seen any issues of DGP's Traveller's Digest magazines then? ;)
AB 101 is a TL15 Imperial AI robot PC.
 
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I don't recall that Aybee has ever been decanonized. So in what way do you see it as being in the same category as Jump Torps?


Hans


In the same way that you can't manufacture one using the existing rules below TL 16. (maybe in T5 you can create self aware robot PC's)
 
In the same way that you can't manufacture one using the existing rules below TL 16. (maybe in T5 you can create self aware robot PC's)

Aybee was an experimental robot with a prototype TL16 brain. And he was tweaked by some Hiver robotocists to tip him over into sentience. Before that, there were roleplaying notes to help sentient players play a non-sentient (albeit highly complex) robot.


Hans
 
Aybee was an experimental robot with a prototype TL16 brain. And he was tweaked by some Hiver robotocists to tip him over into sentience. Before that, there were roleplaying notes to help sentient players play a non-sentient (albeit highly complex) robot.


Hans

Use non sentient robot as a PC? LMAO. Might as well play a toaster.

But, back to my point. Per RAW you can't create sentient robot PC's.
 
Use non sentient robot as a PC? LMAO. Might as well play a toaster.
No different than playing a character with a different Int than your own. I don't recall the details, but IIRC it involved Aybee being so complex that he could fake sentience. The notes told how to emulate that.

But, back to my point. Per RAW you can't create sentient robot PC's.
So? Per setting adventure you can. Seems perfectly reasonable too. If you can create a sentient or almost sentient brain, a player can run it. And as I understand it, the RAW allows the creation of a sentient or near-sentient robot. So what's the point of your point?


Hans
 
I use self aware cybernetic intellegences in my Traveller universe. Granted they are not in a humanoid chassis.

0075nkesmallie.jpg



The roadwheels are 9 ft from rim to axle to give an idea of scale.
 
If NPC's are a possibility then so are PC's. But, I don't consider non sentient cleaning robots as being NPCs any more than a ship's computer is an NPC...

Me neither, but some people like to breathe life into their ship's computer, even if it's only a Genuine Person Personality.

"Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone. Impact minus five seconds. It's been great knowing you guys. You'll ne - ver walk ....."

I take it you have never seen any issues of DGP's Traveller's Digest magazines then?
AB 101 is a TL15 Imperial AI robot PC.

Saw those, but I never thought of it as more than a clever plot device.

Use non sentient robot as a PC? LMAO. Might as well play a toaster. ...

Yeah but those Cylons were pretty deadly in a fight.

...But, back to my point. Per RAW you can't create sentient robot PC's.

No, but you can try, or certainly a gamemaster can present a scenario in which someone tries. Every tech level advance starts with someone trying and failing. And, a high autonomous with sufficient experience might give the appearance of sapience until it encountered something outside its experience.
 
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