Imperial Marine Traditions
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
I have been oout of active duty for quite awhile but my best friend is still in.
He used a "militarism" the other day that had me laughing for hours.
He was listening to one of his senior seargents complain to his master seargent about some random issue and the master seargent's response was..
"Shut up and color."
As in don't ask about cookies or recess jsut color your damn picture inside the lines.
Man, I was rolling for hours on that one.
My buddy says it is pretty prevalent in todays Air Force.
He used a "militarism" the other day that had me laughing for hours.
He was listening to one of his senior seargents complain to his master seargent about some random issue and the master seargent's response was..
"Shut up and color."
As in don't ask about cookies or recess jsut color your damn picture inside the lines.
Man, I was rolling for hours on that one.
My buddy says it is pretty prevalent in todays Air Force.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
I always considered Marines as Gravel Agitators....i also remember this one....Mud Ducks....for the Marines assigned to Fleet....
of course i wont tell you how many years ago that was!!!
of course i wont tell you how many years ago that was!!!
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Militarisms from my days in the Militia.
(some of these are NCO specific.)
This <item of kit> is Americanised. (meaning idiot proofed.)
IE "This SHRAW rocket is Americanised, the instructions are printed on the side.
(sorry to any of my friends in the United States but that's what was said.)
Sweat saves blood, Brains saves both.
Soldier on!
A certain NCO when complaining about the higher ups forcing him to pull something out of his ass would invoke Kreskin (a semi-famous Stage Magician)
Ie "They forgot to schedule in your patrolling training, so it's up to me, Sargeant Kreskin, to teach you everything you need to know about patrolling in one night."
'The Cat's Ass' - describing something as particularly cool or useful. Ie "...those US Ranger blankets are good kit?" - "They're the Cat's ass"
Speaking of kit: "one man one kit" meaning "keep your shit wired tight."
"Slack and Idle Tool" - an epithet used by Basic Training NCO's for most soldiers at some point in their training. usually when they finally succomb to the combination of rigourous workouts and sleep deprivation.
Then there was the story of...
"I'm not thirsty, I'm cold"
I'll put that one over in random static though.
(some of these are NCO specific.)
This <item of kit> is Americanised. (meaning idiot proofed.)
IE "This SHRAW rocket is Americanised, the instructions are printed on the side.
(sorry to any of my friends in the United States but that's what was said.)
Sweat saves blood, Brains saves both.
Soldier on!
A certain NCO when complaining about the higher ups forcing him to pull something out of his ass would invoke Kreskin (a semi-famous Stage Magician)
Ie "They forgot to schedule in your patrolling training, so it's up to me, Sargeant Kreskin, to teach you everything you need to know about patrolling in one night."
'The Cat's Ass' - describing something as particularly cool or useful. Ie "...those US Ranger blankets are good kit?" - "They're the Cat's ass"
Speaking of kit: "one man one kit" meaning "keep your shit wired tight."
"Slack and Idle Tool" - an epithet used by Basic Training NCO's for most soldiers at some point in their training. usually when they finally succomb to the combination of rigourous workouts and sleep deprivation.
Then there was the story of...
"I'm not thirsty, I'm cold"
I'll put that one over in random static though.
notagoodusername
SOC-13
More militarisms:
"It's Character Building" - Said of any remotely unpleasant and pointless task.
"Beirut Salute / Balkans Unload" - Firing your rifle into the air on automatic.
"Go tell the Union" - Pretty standard Warrant Officer response to complaints.
"Vote with your feet" - Leave the army if you don't like it.
"Head of the Escape Committee" - The next person in your unit scheduled to leave the service.
Shane
"It's Character Building" - Said of any remotely unpleasant and pointless task.
"Beirut Salute / Balkans Unload" - Firing your rifle into the air on automatic.
"Go tell the Union" - Pretty standard Warrant Officer response to complaints.
"Vote with your feet" - Leave the army if you don't like it.
"Head of the Escape Committee" - The next person in your unit scheduled to leave the service.
Shane
1. How was this initiated by the Sioux? By daring to move out of the reservation they´d been "gently encouraged" to live in?
2. The destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto was not a massacre then?
Considering they had encamped there without hostile intent, this is hardly any wonder.
I´d really like to see your reference for that claim. According to what I read, survivors were hunted down and killed.
It compares to the Israeli actions in one point: Rather than an incident in a war between nations, this was perpetrated to inhabitants of an occupied country who were essentially at the mercy of their occupiers.
This is the equivalent of covering your ears and singing "LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU!"
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Uncle Bob,
Just a question on the 7th Cav... Having been a member of (once as an AD division, and now an ARNG division)I don't recall our histroy as part of the Cav. when I was up in front of the E-5 board.
Our Unit was originally IIRC, part of the 18th Division of the US Civil War, deactivated. Reactivated as 7th INF 1904, was part of the Moro Insurrection AEF under Pershing 1911; was part of the 1919-1921 SIberian campaign (we have the distinction of the only US outfit to shoot Red Russians on Mother Russia's soil); In WW2 we fought in two theatres of the war (the bulk of the division was in the Pacific, 1 Presidential Unit Citation; a portion of it was in Western Europe (Arty/HHC).
Our next campaign was in Korea, three Presidential Unit citations; deactivated 1963-64 then reactivated 1965-66, into Vietnam, 1 Presidential Unit Citation; then in Panama (Just Cause/Promote Liberty). We were deactivated June 93. We were reactivated June 99, as an ARNg division (made of three Brigades from three States: Oregon's 41st INf/ Oklahoma's 45th Inf/ & the 39th Inf here in Arkansas.) with an AD Hq element at Ft Carson, CO.
If we had any Post Civil war history as part of 7th ID it wasn't made well known to us, so the Wounded Knee reference is lost to my memory.
IIRC the unit in "We were soldiers once" was the 173rd ABN Inf Regt. based out of Ft Campbell (whose most famous Regt commander was Col Hackworth, after the fellow who took them into Nam), whose billets were ours in the 187th, "Rakkasans".
7th ID was in theatre in Nam, but the unit in the book was from Ft Campbell's 101st ABN Air Mobile Inf (later changed to AASLT div,). Where I also served (93-99). Ft Ord was the home of the 7th ID from 1941-1993. (my tour on the Planet Ord was 90-93).
I'm not nit pickin, just unit history UB-which was at my E-5 & E-6 boards.
Just a question on the 7th Cav... Having been a member of (once as an AD division, and now an ARNG division)I don't recall our histroy as part of the Cav. when I was up in front of the E-5 board.
Our Unit was originally IIRC, part of the 18th Division of the US Civil War, deactivated. Reactivated as 7th INF 1904, was part of the Moro Insurrection AEF under Pershing 1911; was part of the 1919-1921 SIberian campaign (we have the distinction of the only US outfit to shoot Red Russians on Mother Russia's soil); In WW2 we fought in two theatres of the war (the bulk of the division was in the Pacific, 1 Presidential Unit Citation; a portion of it was in Western Europe (Arty/HHC).
Our next campaign was in Korea, three Presidential Unit citations; deactivated 1963-64 then reactivated 1965-66, into Vietnam, 1 Presidential Unit Citation; then in Panama (Just Cause/Promote Liberty). We were deactivated June 93. We were reactivated June 99, as an ARNg division (made of three Brigades from three States: Oregon's 41st INf/ Oklahoma's 45th Inf/ & the 39th Inf here in Arkansas.) with an AD Hq element at Ft Carson, CO.
If we had any Post Civil war history as part of 7th ID it wasn't made well known to us, so the Wounded Knee reference is lost to my memory.
IIRC the unit in "We were soldiers once" was the 173rd ABN Inf Regt. based out of Ft Campbell (whose most famous Regt commander was Col Hackworth, after the fellow who took them into Nam), whose billets were ours in the 187th, "Rakkasans".
7th ID was in theatre in Nam, but the unit in the book was from Ft Campbell's 101st ABN Air Mobile Inf (later changed to AASLT div,). Where I also served (93-99). Ft Ord was the home of the 7th ID from 1941-1993. (my tour on the Planet Ord was 90-93).
I'm not nit pickin, just unit history UB-which was at my E-5 & E-6 boards.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Uh. Murph? Tobias?
I get the impression that at least one of you is taking this personally.
I feel partially responsible for mentioning Wounded Knee in 'The Fleet: Cool Starship names' However I don't recall claiming it was a massacre (not that I'm saying it was not, just that I didn't make that claim)
Unfair as it may sound, if one of you wishes to drop the subject and the other wishes to keep arguing. it's pointless. (however on the other hand it's pretty cheesey to make your points then state that you're not going to listen to the other guy's points)
may I suggest that you either A) move it to Random Static. (Tobias' suggestion, and Murph's turn to post.)
B) just let it drop. No need for flames. People WILL post things that make others Fulminate we remain civilised here but not letting the lightnings destroy our civility.
I get the impression that at least one of you is taking this personally.
I feel partially responsible for mentioning Wounded Knee in 'The Fleet: Cool Starship names' However I don't recall claiming it was a massacre (not that I'm saying it was not, just that I didn't make that claim)
Unfair as it may sound, if one of you wishes to drop the subject and the other wishes to keep arguing. it's pointless. (however on the other hand it's pretty cheesey to make your points then state that you're not going to listen to the other guy's points)
may I suggest that you either A) move it to Random Static. (Tobias' suggestion, and Murph's turn to post.)
B) just let it drop. No need for flames. People WILL post things that make others Fulminate we remain civilised here but not letting the lightnings destroy our civility.
While We've got an american cav expert on tap - What's link between the tune "Yellow Ribbon" and the cav.
I've heard some strange musical links for unit tunes. We had "Marching through Georgia" as our regi march - strange for an Australian Light Horse Unit - maybe it's from our american invasion plans. As our Regi slow march we had "Sailing" by Rod stewart - again it doesn;t have to make any sense at all.
The 10th Light horse - you may have seen us in such movies as "Gallipolli", "The Light Horsemen" and suchlike.
I've heard some strange musical links for unit tunes. We had "Marching through Georgia" as our regi march - strange for an Australian Light Horse Unit - maybe it's from our american invasion plans. As our Regi slow march we had "Sailing" by Rod stewart - again it doesn;t have to make any sense at all.
The 10th Light horse - you may have seen us in such movies as "Gallipolli", "The Light Horsemen" and suchlike.
Uncle Bob. Not Murph.Fine by me. My tossed-down glove, so to speak, can be picked up there if desired.
Regards,
Tobias
P.S.: And while I don´t take this personal, I am fairly sensitive versus glossing over of historical dark spots. It´s probably a German thing...
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
marines, marines are just the 1st Cavs helpers...
This historical quoat was actually heard in a bar in Siagon 1967, by yours truly....what happened next is still talked about by many Vets, with great hushed reverence....its still considered The Big One of "67"....
This historical quoat was actually heard in a bar in Siagon 1967, by yours truly....what happened next is still talked about by many Vets, with great hushed reverence....its still considered The Big One of "67"....
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Tobias, Murph, Uncle Bob:OOPS apologies to you Murph. Uncle Bob, see what I said to 'Murph.
Tobias: Understood, If I read Albert Speer's book right. Such sensitivity is something we should ALL learn.
Tobias: Understood, If I read Albert Speer's book right. Such sensitivity is something we should ALL learn.
Tom Schoene
SOC-12
The link isn't terribly obscure for this one. As I understand it, "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" was written in the American Civil War by a Confederate cavalry officer and his fiancee.
The tradition of wearing a colored ribbon or scarf for an absent loved one, particularly a soldier, was widespread. These ribbons would usually be in the soldier's branch color. For the cavalry, the branch color was yellow.
After the war, the Union cavalry absorbed a fair number of ex-Confederate troopers and their traditions. That's probably how the song made its way into the U.S. Army.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Mink:
I'm no expert but let me toss in this tidbit.
The americans in the civil war. (for the most part) used various colours on their rank badges, cap badges and tunic facing to depict branch of service.
The most striking example (used by both sides) was green for doctors and medical corpsmen (even to the point of bright green armbands.)
I can't remember offhand if it was artillary or infantry that was Red (getting my british traditions mixed in here I think)
BUT..
I do remember that Cavalry used Yellow.
Yellow splashes of colour on the shoulder boards, yellow rank badges, and perhaps? yellow pennents???
anyone care to enlighten both the Mink and me?
I'm no expert but let me toss in this tidbit.
The americans in the civil war. (for the most part) used various colours on their rank badges, cap badges and tunic facing to depict branch of service.
The most striking example (used by both sides) was green for doctors and medical corpsmen (even to the point of bright green armbands.)
I can't remember offhand if it was artillary or infantry that was Red (getting my british traditions mixed in here I think)
BUT..
I do remember that Cavalry used Yellow.
Yellow splashes of colour on the shoulder boards, yellow rank badges, and perhaps? yellow pennents???
anyone care to enlighten both the Mink and me?
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
You sir,
have watched 'Kelly's Heroes' too many times.
;]
have watched 'Kelly's Heroes' too many times.
;]
Capt. Blacklight
SOC-12
Cavalry = Yellow
Infantry=Blue
Artillery= Red
there is more but my brain is not awake yet. Do you really want to know the Color Schemes?
And Yellow Ribbon was a marchine jodie during WW1 and john Ford made it the Cavalry's theme in "She wore a Yellow Ribbon" back in the 50's?
Anything Else?
Capt Blacklight
I was going to leave the 7th Cav Lineage issue to the Cav guys to sort out, but as a former Honorary Cavalryman with some knowledge of this issue, I’ll wade in, at least knee deep.
The 7th Cav is one of the few units that has been both a Cav and an Infantry unit. Before Vietnam the U.S. Army began experimenting with Helicopter Mobile operations. Initially, this was considered an Airborne mission (similar to glider operations), and the first Airmobile division was designated the 11th Airborne (a deactivated WWII airborne division). Before deploying to Vietnam, Army thinkers decided that Airmobile operations were more like traditional American Cavalry operations (ride in, dismount and fight, then ride out), and re-designated the 11th Airborne to the 1st Cavalry and then re-designated the infantry units in the division to Cavalry, but leaving them with their infantry organizations and soldiers. At some point, the Cavalry got it’s unit designations back from the Infantry, and the 7th Cav was used as a designation for Divisional Cavalry Squadrons for some light infantry divisions, including, IIRC the 7th Infantry Division (part of a program to align regimental numbers with division numbers where possible).
Relating all this back to Traveller, these are a many of the same issues that would affect military units in the future (adapting doctrine to new technology, unit reorganizations, etc.) that could play havoc with unit lineage and traditions.
Just some thoughts,
Rob
The 7th Cav is one of the few units that has been both a Cav and an Infantry unit. Before Vietnam the U.S. Army began experimenting with Helicopter Mobile operations. Initially, this was considered an Airborne mission (similar to glider operations), and the first Airmobile division was designated the 11th Airborne (a deactivated WWII airborne division). Before deploying to Vietnam, Army thinkers decided that Airmobile operations were more like traditional American Cavalry operations (ride in, dismount and fight, then ride out), and re-designated the 11th Airborne to the 1st Cavalry and then re-designated the infantry units in the division to Cavalry, but leaving them with their infantry organizations and soldiers. At some point, the Cavalry got it’s unit designations back from the Infantry, and the 7th Cav was used as a designation for Divisional Cavalry Squadrons for some light infantry divisions, including, IIRC the 7th Infantry Division (part of a program to align regimental numbers with division numbers where possible).
Relating all this back to Traveller, these are a many of the same issues that would affect military units in the future (adapting doctrine to new technology, unit reorganizations, etc.) that could play havoc with unit lineage and traditions.
Just some thoughts,
Rob
Capt. Blacklight
SOC-12
Last I checked the 7th Cav is back with the 1st Cavalry Div. out of Ft. Hood. I am not sure on the Heritage of the Seventh Infantry, but their just crunchies anyway
... Not that I have anything again PBI's... some of my best friends are infantry.Capt. Blacklight
Engineers red & white
Aviation teal blue & gold
MPs Green & yellow (I think)
These colors were sometimes used for chevrons. By WWII they were used for piping on the seams of caps and other places. When the 1st Cav came back from Vietnam everybody wore a beret in their branch color. The berets were inexpensive and the colors faded so you ended up with a range of pastel colors. A formation looked like a field of wildflowers. It was the gayest thing I saw until I had lunch on Montrose street in Houston.
In WWII the German army used a similar waffenfarbe to trim insignia of rank.
Crimson red: General staff
Bright red: Artillery
White: Infantry
Gold yellow: Cavalry
Lemon yellow (or light brown): Signals
Light green Rifle & mountain troops
Rose pink: tanks
Bordeaux red: smoke troops
Cornflower blue: medical
Light Blue: Mechanized supply
Black: Engineers
Orange: Recruiting
Dark green: Admin