Imperial Marine Traditions
- Thread starter Murph
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PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Rumour has it that back when the Canadians had a armour commitment in germany there was an officer whose sole job was to run around after the tanks with a Goverment of Canada Chequebook.
This story was often told in conjunction with the one about the transposed grid reference that had a tank/arty unit pasting the heck out of the Autbahn (fortunately on a low traffic day.)
Of course incidents of this sort didn't just happen to us colonials, nor just in Germany. Aparantly Peter Sellers met one of the other Key Actors of the BBC radio show "The Goon Show" when one of the pair (I forget which one) had his APC knocked over sidewise by a the other's runaway artillary peice that had come free of it's tow rig atop a hill. That story goes back to france in WWII.
Ten years since I was a 'weekend warrior' and 'private for life'
This story was often told in conjunction with the one about the transposed grid reference that had a tank/arty unit pasting the heck out of the Autbahn (fortunately on a low traffic day.)
Of course incidents of this sort didn't just happen to us colonials, nor just in Germany. Aparantly Peter Sellers met one of the other Key Actors of the BBC radio show "The Goon Show" when one of the pair (I forget which one) had his APC knocked over sidewise by a the other's runaway artillary peice that had come free of it's tow rig atop a hill. That story goes back to france in WWII.
Ten years since I was a 'weekend warrior' and 'private for life'
Capt. Blacklight
SOC-12
I also would be happy to contribute to such an endevor.
And some where in the back of my mind is the story of some poor M3 driver on a motor march back in the cold old days. He fell asleep on the road and pasted a bridge pylon. Did something like $300,000 damage to the pylon and $500 to the Bradley.(And it wasn't me!
Honest!) {I did trash a bridge once with my M-1, but I was also going flat out and I did no damage to my track. the wood bridge... well lets not remind me about that. Thank God for a Troop C.O. with a Heart of Gold.
}
And some where in the back of my mind is the story of some poor M3 driver on a motor march back in the cold old days. He fell asleep on the road and pasted a bridge pylon. Did something like $300,000 damage to the pylon and $500 to the Bradley.(And it wasn't me!
}PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
That reminds me of my favourite Jeep commercial ( I think it was for a CJ 7 which should give you an idea how long ago it was)
the Comercial was one of those 'Dare we compare?' between a Jeep and what looked like a Sherman varient.
It begins with introducing the jeep and stating that they will compare it with the tank As the tank drives past the commander gives the screen a big thumbs up and shouts "Right!"
The commercial proceeds something like this.
The jeep has great manuverability for dodging those back road obstacles (jukes around a fallen tree.
Tank, Doesn't need it (CRUNCH!)
The Jeep has high road clearance and tough suspension.
Tank, Doesn't need it (CRASH!)
With the jeep you can pick up your girlfriend.
With the tank you can pick up your girlfriend's house (CRASH! CRUNCH! CRUMBLE SMASH!)
My reaction at age much less than 14... Forget the jeep I want the TANK!)
The first Peirce Brosnan Bond movie had a scene that gave me flash backs to the commercial.
The lada patrol car has high manuverability.
Tank...
the Comercial was one of those 'Dare we compare?' between a Jeep and what looked like a Sherman varient.
It begins with introducing the jeep and stating that they will compare it with the tank As the tank drives past the commander gives the screen a big thumbs up and shouts "Right!"
The commercial proceeds something like this.
The jeep has great manuverability for dodging those back road obstacles (jukes around a fallen tree.
Tank, Doesn't need it (CRUNCH!)
The Jeep has high road clearance and tough suspension.
Tank, Doesn't need it (CRASH!)
With the jeep you can pick up your girlfriend.
With the tank you can pick up your girlfriend's house (CRASH! CRUNCH! CRUMBLE SMASH!)
My reaction at age much less than 14... Forget the jeep I want the TANK!)
The first Peirce Brosnan Bond movie had a scene that gave me flash backs to the commercial.
The lada patrol car has high manuverability.
Tank...
I watched a similar one happen one REFORGER. The Maneuver control officers in their little truck followed us around with money to pay for whatever we destroyed. I watched a company of GERMAN leopard tanks destroy a crop field. The owner came out to the MCO and told him that American tanks had done that. He walked away with the cash.
Also when the M-1 had just beend deployed to Germany, there was a tendency to tailgate. This lasted until the first reports came in of melted paint off the hoods of Mercedes and Porsches. That turbine engine gets hot!
Again a Germany story. My crew and I were broken down on a border recon, and decided to stay with our track in along this field about four kilometers from the border. We buttoned up and slept in and on top of the track. Next morning we hear a knocking sound, and there is the German farmer with fresh coffee, bread, and pastries for the Amerikaners who were there to protect him from the commies. It really made us glad to be there. Now this was 1984 and the Cold War was still real then.
Also when the M-1 had just beend deployed to Germany, there was a tendency to tailgate. This lasted until the first reports came in of melted paint off the hoods of Mercedes and Porsches. That turbine engine gets hot!
Again a Germany story. My crew and I were broken down on a border recon, and decided to stay with our track in along this field about four kilometers from the border. We buttoned up and slept in and on top of the track. Next morning we hear a knocking sound, and there is the German farmer with fresh coffee, bread, and pastries for the Amerikaners who were there to protect him from the commies. It really made us glad to be there. Now this was 1984 and the Cold War was still real then.
This attitude is one of the reasons soldiers have been willing to fight for their group (country/which ever way of life/whatever).
If a group of people look upon you as one of those who will stand between wars desolation and their homes, it's amazing how much pride you can feel. (It only happened to me a couple of times, but it's wonderful - makes everything worth while)
I joined the chocos in the early 90s - no respect. I've been jeered at on my way to parade. I've had discussions with friends who don't understand why I want to become a warmongering penis-science militarist. This attitude from civilians enganders a totally different attitude to them. You can still have pride, but it is the pride for struggling against adversity to do what you think right.
In the end I did quit - I put in 7 years behind the trigger so I don't feel too much of a wuzz; it still smarts every ANZAC day when I go and watch the parade rather than march in it.
Paul
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Yeah. Can't claim your service record. but...
Every November 11th I make a point of remembering
Flight Officer Garfield Cunningham. RCAF
Who was someone special to my mother, and never returned from a flight over the indian ocean, in '42
on your other point, Pournelle mentions it in his introduction to Drake's 'Hammer's Slammers' " A Nation that disrespects it's military will soon have a disreputable military"
Every November 11th I make a point of remembering
Flight Officer Garfield Cunningham. RCAF
Who was someone special to my mother, and never returned from a flight over the indian ocean, in '42
on your other point, Pournelle mentions it in his introduction to Drake's 'Hammer's Slammers' " A Nation that disrespects it's military will soon have a disreputable military"
7th Cavalry lineage is perpetuated by 1/7, 2/7, and (IIRC) 3/7 Cavalry Squadrons, which are elements of 1st Cavalry Division here at Fort Hood.
I have more or less no interest in Cavalry. I just have to point of that as far as military traditions, one point should be kept in mind re: Engineers. The turreted castle insignia goes back at least to Alexander the Great's chief engineer (whose ring is in the FLW Engineer Regimental Museum), is universal among Earth militaries, and hence would likely be retained. Personally, IMTU, the assault elements of the Engineer units carry ceremonial axes like French Foreign Legion pioneers. It's far less silly than Marine cutlasses. I have not decided whether those are in lieu of or in addition to the cutlass for Marine Engineers.
John
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Sapper posted-"I have more or less no interest in Cavalry. I just have to point of that as far as military traditions, one point should be kept in mind re: Engineers. The turreted castle insignia goes back at least to Alexander the Great's chief engineer (whose ring is in the FLW Engineer Regimental Museum), is universal among Earth militaries, and hence would likely be retained. Personally, IMTU, the assault elements of the Engineer units carry ceremonial axes like French Foreign Legion pioneers. It's far less silly than Marine cutlasses. I have not decided whether those are in lieu of or in addition to the cutlass for Marine Engineers."
_______________________________________________
First, welcome aboard Sapper!
Second, about the Engineer's Turreted castle/ ALexander the Great's CE's ring n all... Great stuff!!!
The axes..hmm. Like the Roman Legion Faces?
_______________________________________________
First, welcome aboard Sapper!
Second, about the Engineer's Turreted castle/ ALexander the Great's CE's ring n all... Great stuff!!!
The axes..hmm. Like the Roman Legion Faces?
I must admit I have mixed feelings about learning that the 7th Cav is back with 1st Cav Div. On the one hand, it is good to seem some historical continuity with unit designations. On the other, it means that Cav branch has once again lost control of the 7th Cav lineage, as each Division has only 1 Cav Squadron, so the 7th must be either Infantry or Armor units wearing Cav branch for historical reasons.
As an aside, I should have made clear that my trace on 7th Cav lineage only went to 1991, when I worked at Cav branch as a 'black bird' captain.
As to branch distinctions in the Imperial Marines, I am inclined to follow the USMC example, and let the Marines be 'branch free' at least in uniform. Marine officers wear no branch distinctions, as opposed to their Army counterparts.
Just my thoughts,
Rob
As an aside, I should have made clear that my trace on 7th Cav lineage only went to 1991, when I worked at Cav branch as a 'black bird' captain.
As to branch distinctions in the Imperial Marines, I am inclined to follow the USMC example, and let the Marines be 'branch free' at least in uniform. Marine officers wear no branch distinctions, as opposed to their Army counterparts.
Just my thoughts,
Rob
I must admit that I tend to use either armour, Mech inf or Recon when describing "cav" units from the Imperial army. These are all very different sorts of units. I can easily see armour integrating with Mech inf - however it hasn;t happened yet IMTU.
I'm not sure why you consider cav to be something different from one of the above.
Over here we have Lighthorse which can be either Mech Inf or Recon depending upon the unit and we have cav - which is armour. (We also have some mounted inf which is Mech Inf).
I was with the 10th Lighthorse - which is a recon unit. I was a mech inf portion of that recon unit.
Interesting. So, when would drop troops be used versus drop ships? And leading from the above
comments. What designations would the drop troops
be? I assume any other units would be brought
in via drop shuttles/ships.
In our game we used drop troops for special forces to weaken enemy positions. Any other marine based variations on this?
Savage
comments. What designations would the drop troops
be? I assume any other units would be brought
in via drop shuttles/ships.
In our game we used drop troops for special forces to weaken enemy positions. Any other marine based variations on this?
Savage
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Another Imperial Marine Tradition, is an award, called the Red sleeve, In a friend's TU. Its a stripe, representing the day this award was given to the recipient, bythe Emperor/Empress, where he/she takes a ceremonial dagger, pricks his/her hand, and wipes it down the sleeve of the recipient's right arm. This is culminated with the phrase:
"I recognize you as a worthy friend, and servant of this Imperium, my blood is your blood."
This is later replaced by a scarlet stripe 2" wide on the dress sleeve. It is acknowledged that the recipient has the ability to call upon the Emperor/Empress once for anything.
Its not an SEH, but its up there close to one.
"I recognize you as a worthy friend, and servant of this Imperium, my blood is your blood."
This is later replaced by a scarlet stripe 2" wide on the dress sleeve. It is acknowledged that the recipient has the ability to call upon the Emperor/Empress once for anything.
Its not an SEH, but its up there close to one.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
That's just TOO COOL.
Savage wrote:
Interesting. So, when would drop troops be used versus drop ships? And leading from the above comments. What designations would the drop troops be? I assume any other units would be brought in via drop shuttles/ships.
From my first post to this thread with some addisions:
The Airborne units would make up the future Spaceborne forces as well.
If that were true, then you could use the following system for regimental numbers:
5XX for Jump Regiments
3XX for Assault Shuttle Regiments (the old ‘glider riders’, these units are actually converted infantry regiments from WWI).
This could give you up to 99 regiments of each just following the ‘American model’. These units use the following ‘suffixes’: PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment), AIR (Airborne Infantry Regiment), or you could add SIR (Spaceborne Infantry Regiment). You could use other ‘old earth’ designations such as the French RIP(?) and REP.
The reason I suggested this in the first place is that Airborne and Marine operations are much more similar than any other. As a young Infantry officer I got the opportunity to attend the Armor Officer Advanced Course after my tour with the 82d Airborne. The ‘Heavy’ world was a totally different mind set, and the first time I felt at home was when we got a half day presentation by the USMC liaison on how they plan and execute an amphibious assault. Everything made perfect sense; it was just like an airborne assault except with ships and amtracks instead of airfields and aircraft.
There was actually a proposal from a military think tank about 25 years ago to move the 82d Airborne to the USMC because of the similar nature of the missions and the commonality is planning and tactical operations.
Just some more thoughts to add fuel to the fire,
Rob
Interesting. So, when would drop troops be used versus drop ships? And leading from the above comments. What designations would the drop troops be? I assume any other units would be brought in via drop shuttles/ships.
From my first post to this thread with some addisions:
The Airborne units would make up the future Spaceborne forces as well.
If that were true, then you could use the following system for regimental numbers:
5XX for Jump Regiments
3XX for Assault Shuttle Regiments (the old ‘glider riders’, these units are actually converted infantry regiments from WWI).
This could give you up to 99 regiments of each just following the ‘American model’. These units use the following ‘suffixes’: PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment), AIR (Airborne Infantry Regiment), or you could add SIR (Spaceborne Infantry Regiment). You could use other ‘old earth’ designations such as the French RIP(?) and REP.
The reason I suggested this in the first place is that Airborne and Marine operations are much more similar than any other. As a young Infantry officer I got the opportunity to attend the Armor Officer Advanced Course after my tour with the 82d Airborne. The ‘Heavy’ world was a totally different mind set, and the first time I felt at home was when we got a half day presentation by the USMC liaison on how they plan and execute an amphibious assault. Everything made perfect sense; it was just like an airborne assault except with ships and amtracks instead of airfields and aircraft.
There was actually a proposal from a military think tank about 25 years ago to move the 82d Airborne to the USMC because of the similar nature of the missions and the commonality is planning and tactical operations.
Just some more thoughts to add fuel to the fire,
Rob
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
---------------------------------------------
credit for that goes to Bryan Gibson lad, not I. I just relayed the tale, as he's busy on T20 stuff
Simon Jester
SOC-12
It's nice of you to ask, but you didn't need to. Just go ahead-on and don't let anyone gainsay you. That's what the whole place is for.
Besides, it would probably be a pretty good idea to get some of the information from members of the RL service we're basing our shared creation on.
As for contributions, we suck them up quicker than a national political party during an election year.
Former US Navy Black Deck Gang member,
Simon Jester
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Yeah, Shoot! er... go ahead.
My knowledge is academic at best.
10 years since I was a "weekend warrior and "private for life"
My knowledge is academic at best.
10 years since I was a "weekend warrior and "private for life"
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
SO um... what's the plan for this book thing? should we start a new topic? exchange emails? what?
Antares Administration
SOC-12
Actually, last Thursday, I drafted a submission proposal to Hunter, including an outline for a series called "Armed Forces of the Gateway". Some proposed volumes were:
a. The Imperial Marines,
b. The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service,
c. The Imperial Navy, etc.
d. Various major regional forces.
You get the idea. Think of something like the Osprey reference series; a sort of generic Traveller reference to pull together the canon in a single volume, and flesh out the holes.
I thought I should start with a submission to the powers-that-be. After all, if we want this sanctioned for publication, we may as well have blessing from the outset.
Anyway, half way through prepping the submission, a virus crashed my Windows 2K, and I wasn't able to recover the outline. I've since rebuilt my harddrive, and I'm in the middle of doing the submission again.
In general, each volume would have the following content (actual detail and sequence to be confirmed, and suggested size of section included):
a. Introduction (1 page)
b. History of the Service/Force (4 pages)
c. BASIC Equipment (6 pages)
d. TO&Es for small units (up to squadron, or battalion) (4-6 pages)
e. Intro Doctrine/Tactical Manual? (4-6 pages)
e. Campaign/Mission/Ticket Suggestions (not like "Linkworlds Cluster", but rather some basic guidelines and plot suggestions for GMs)(2 pages)
e. Famous/infamous characters (possible NPCs)(4-6 pages)
f. General service NPCs (2-4 pages)
This is probably too much, and I'd like to keep it under 40 pages. After all there would be a whole series to write, and we don't even have the go-ahead yet!
While I'm putting this together in a new submission, I'd appreciate any feedback.
Paul Nemeth
AA
a. The Imperial Marines,
b. The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service,
c. The Imperial Navy, etc.
d. Various major regional forces.
You get the idea. Think of something like the Osprey reference series; a sort of generic Traveller reference to pull together the canon in a single volume, and flesh out the holes.
I thought I should start with a submission to the powers-that-be. After all, if we want this sanctioned for publication, we may as well have blessing from the outset.
Anyway, half way through prepping the submission, a virus crashed my Windows 2K, and I wasn't able to recover the outline. I've since rebuilt my harddrive, and I'm in the middle of doing the submission again.
In general, each volume would have the following content (actual detail and sequence to be confirmed, and suggested size of section included):
a. Introduction (1 page)
b. History of the Service/Force (4 pages)
c. BASIC Equipment (6 pages)
d. TO&Es for small units (up to squadron, or battalion) (4-6 pages)
e. Intro Doctrine/Tactical Manual? (4-6 pages)
e. Campaign/Mission/Ticket Suggestions (not like "Linkworlds Cluster", but rather some basic guidelines and plot suggestions for GMs)(2 pages)
e. Famous/infamous characters (possible NPCs)(4-6 pages)
f. General service NPCs (2-4 pages)
This is probably too much, and I'd like to keep it under 40 pages. After all there would be a whole series to write, and we don't even have the go-ahead yet!
While I'm putting this together in a new submission, I'd appreciate any feedback.
Paul Nemeth
AA