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Imperial Marines Questions and Feedback

Meteoric Assault

Marquis de Sharkbait
Admin Award
Many of the members here know I am all over the place with my creativity. I have for the last few days been working on a project That began oh about 2005, yes I have been distracted!

Anyway..I have these questions and I am requesting feedback on the graphics.

1. Is it Imperial Marines or Imperial Star Marines?

2. Imperial Marine/Imperial Star Marine? Units
Does anyone else have canon sources for other numbered units?
Battle for Terra
99th Provisional Star Marine Division
6701st
4217th (Elite)
4545th (Elite)
4940th
2666th

Fifth Frontier War
1931st (elite)
1071st ( elite)
2091st
8041st
3277th
5722nd
8327th
6127th

3. Royal Marines, Soviet Naval Infantry or USMC for Inspiration? (I prefer the Royal Marines they are better trained which reflects the traveller model in my opinion.)

4. Graphics Based on JTAS 12 P.42-45









Comments
 
They are whatever the emperor wants them to be called.

Which means they may change.

Alternatively, the Star Marines may indicate lineage, retaining an older name.

One possibility is that the Vilani referred to the unit type as Star Marines as part of the whole Grand Empire of Stars naming motif.

Or, that part of the Third Imperium's campaign bringing the Vilani sectors on board was making a cultural nod to the Ziru Sirka by naming the Star Marines, and it fell out of use after the initial purpose.
 
They are whatever the emperor wants them to be called.

Which means they may change.

Alternatively, the Star Marines may indicate lineage, retaining an older name.

One possibility is that the Vilani referred to the unit type as Star Marines as part of the whole Grand Empire of Stars naming motif.

Or, that part of the Third Imperium's campaign bringing the Vilani sectors on board was making a cultural nod to the Ziru Sirka by naming the Star Marines, and it fell out of use after the initial purpose.

The only reason I bring it up is in Invasion Earth they are called "star marines".
 
Originally, the Emperor named them Space Marines, then encountered a force greater then he could ever conceive, Intellectual Property Litigators.
 
Royal Marines, Soviet Naval Infantry or USMC for Inspiration?

a better approach would be to decide what they are and what they do, and then decide their name and toe.

if inspiration is required:

are they high-speed operators? then u.s. navy seals.

are they high-quality regular line troops to be deployed in some number? then u.s. marines.

are they fodder? then soviet naval infantry.
 
a better approach would be to decide what they are and what they do, and then decide their name and toe.

if inspiration is required:

are they high-speed operators? then u.s. navy seals.

are they high-quality regular line troops to be deployed in some number? then u.s. marines.

are they fodder? then soviet naval infantry.

I have to ask what is your military background? Some of your answers are odd.

- SEALs are really a direct action/Recce SOF asset, IMHO they would be more inspiration of of the imperial marine commando companies... as would the Force Recon or SBS.

- Royal Marines are superbly trained would you agree? By comparison to the US Marines and Army Airborne are pretty much neck and necks far as training , professionalism and capability. Both share the mission template of 'forcible entry' and elite infantry. Could you explain your answer?

- Why do you think Soviet Naval Infantry are cannon fodder? I have observed the VDV ( Russian Airborne and Air Assault) 1st hand and they are very rough around the edges, but well trained and motivated. Leadership and NCO development has changed a lot since they went professional in the early 2000's
 
Leadership and NCO development has changed a lot since they went professional in the early 2000's

you said soviet, so I spoke of soviet.

IMHO they would be more inspiration of of the imperial marine commando companies

you spoke of inspiration, so I suggested along those lines. how you draw them up is up to you. if you are trying to copy existing real-world structures into the traveler environment you may have some ... idiosyncrasies.
 
Off hand, I'd say that the (modern) Solomani Confederation Marines are closer to the British variant, the Imperial ones the USMC.
 
you said soviet, so I spoke of soviet.

I differ in opinion of the russian/soviet soldier.



you spoke of inspiration, so I suggested along those lines. how you draw them up is up to you. if you are trying to copy existing real-world structures into the traveler environment you may have some ... idiosyncrasies.

Granted... but looking at flexibility, capability, and Lethality overlays is the comparison I am looking at.
 
If I may ask... can I ask for your canon source on that? Seriously, I would love to explore that rabbit hole of inquiry.
If you don't mind, here's some of what he's talking about.

Confederation Marines are noted as "a relatively small but well-trained force which is used primarily for rapid-reaction and ship-boarding applications." in GT Rim of Fire (p. 26), and MgT Solomani states "The Confederation Marines are subordinate to the Confederation Navy and specialise as ship's troops. Only the Star Marine Specialty is available." (p. 7)

In GT Ground Forces, there is an extensive background and structure on the Imperial Marines. Notable, they have rather large (5184 as statted out) Regiments assigned per fleet, along with Marine Armored Calvary Regiments. Many fleets will have a Commando Company. Ship's troops are independent of the regimental structure.
 
Originally, the Emperor named them Space Marines, then encountered a force greater then he could ever conceive, Intellectual Property Litigators.

The litigators lost. It was proved that "Space Marines"---the title Space Marine---first appears in print in a story in the 1930's, clearly predating Greedy Workshop. At which point Greedy Workshop relented.
 
1. Is it Imperial Marines or Imperial Star Marines?

Imperial Marines. As it was in CT in 1980. Predates Greedy Workshop.

2. Imperial Marine/Imperial Star Marine? Units
Does anyone else have canon sources for other numbered units?
Battle for Terra
99th Provisional Star Marine Division
6701st
4217th (Elite)
4545th (Elite)
4940th
2666th

Fifth Frontier War
1931st (elite)
1071st ( elite)
2091st
8041st
3277th
5722nd
8327th
6127th
Not my specialty.

3. Royal Marines, Soviet Naval Infantry or USMC for Inspiration? (I prefer the Royal Marines they are better trained which reflects the traveller model in my opinion.)
Have to disagree that Royal Marines are better trained than USMC. No info on level of training of current Russian Naval Infantry.

USMC has a wider writ of operation. So they are trained for insertion in more ways than the Royal Marines. Royals are a smaller, tighter, organization.

Royal Marines obviously predate the USMC, USMC has a more recognizable presence (due to the obvious level of deployment of the USMC).

So...my take:

As ship's troops---Royal Marines

As Assault Infantry---USMC
 
Mother Goose.

Though to be fair, I think that paragraph needs revamping, plus how the Solomani Army is too cosy with SolSec, and performs some of the roles the Imperial Marines would.
 
Of course, pre bellum Confederation Marines could have been canonically more planetary assaulty.

I'm extrapolating that the Solomani Pentagon have developed an actual Schlieffen Plan to take back what they've lost, plus buffer zone, and figured out they need hundreds of millions of bodies to physically occupy and de-Vilanize systems, and the Solomani Navy is to be principally concerned with keeping the Imperium Navy at a respectable distance.
 
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1. Imperial Marines vs. Imperial Star Marines:

I don't think there's any canon definition of this.

I think that both are valid names. Their "true" name is the "Imperial Star Marines" a transliteration of what they're called in Vilani. However, the term is considered archaic in the Imperium; as a service they're known as the Imperial Marines in Anglic, all of their brochures/documents/communications refer to the organization as the Imperial Marines. Many of the oldest Marine units found around the core areas of the Imperium, still proudly refer to themselves as Imperial Star Marines in their unit names and livery. As the Imperium expanded, the Imperial Marines expanded as well but these newer units are simply referred to as the "Imperial Marines" and not "Imperial Star Marines."

3. I'll preface my comments on this in that I don't think there should be an Imperial Army; at least not in the way that later very heavily American-based Imperial military particularly in the late Rebellion-era and the Lorenverse/GURPSverse seems to have this Army / Marines split.

I'd really think the majority of the Imperial Marines would be more akin to the British Expeditionary Force of early World War I - a small, well-trained, well-motivated surface army that is infantry heavy used to fight planetside battles with the Imperial Navy being the primary stick of the Imperium.

They'd be superb infantry but overall a little light on armored and vehicular assets which are large, difficult to transport, and often just sit in a transport unused. This is why Imperial Marines have such an emphasis on grav-belts, battle dress, and FGMPs; infantry are flexible and are always useful in the situations where you want Marines in a way that things like trucks or tanks are not (yes, a fully equipped grav-belted, battle-dressed, and FGMP carrying Marine is expensive, at least you can use that Marine in all kinds of situations; you don't need a grav tank for a boarding action). Again, I'm not a big fan of the Imperial Marines having these companies of grav armor and meson artillery and so on. 1) It sounds too USMC. 2) It doesn't feel very futuristic and too contemporary. 3) I like the idea that Imperial Marines have an organizational weakness/trade-off that is considered acceptable because the Imperium doesn't have unlimited budgets (again, these ideally equipped units with special and heavy units for every occasion on their TO&E feel too much like a militarist's Mary Sue force) - those who hold the purse strings for the Marines are the Imperial Navy and the Navy feels that the Marines don't need that many tanks because they'll always have naval fire support overhead.

Although few like to admit it, the Imperial Marines would actually have different quality of troops within the organization - some would be better-trained and better-equipped than other units. None are truly considered "cannon fodder" (it's expensive to transport troops in starships - using expensive starships to transport cheap troops is idiotic) but some units definitely have more grav armor or are better trained to take on specialized or difficult roles and so on. The best units would typically historically have existed in the Imperial core regions which have never had a history of rebellion; these "politically reliable" units recruit and train mostly from worlds in the core areas, with a percentage of troops mixed in from other regions - sufficient to give variety of the unit but the troops from the more culturally homogeneous core region would dominate the unit's "culture" and "character" to ensure the desired qualities of the units remains "core." All Marine units are mostly are deployed in various frontier areas of the Imperium; but these "core" units are shifted from one hotspot to another following the expansion of the Imperium and thus have never truly "returned" to their home region - instead bouncing from one naval depot or base to another, rotating out personnel as necessary but are essentially eternally "on campaign."
 
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