Increasing Traveller's popularity.
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the chain of events.
Paizo had a contract with Wizards to publish both of Wizard's previously in-house magazines for D&D fans, Dragon which was the general game support magazine and Dungeon which was dedicated to adventures. When D&D 4 hit the rocks, Paizo saw an opening and came out with Pathfinder, a direct evolution of D&D 3. They already had the attention and loyalty of pretty much the entire core fan base of D&D, thanks to Wizards effectively handing it to them on a silver platter, and basically walked away with that fan base right under Wizard's nose.
I believe that if Paizo had been some other random D20 publishing house, without the magazines as a direct line to the D&D community, things would have been very different. Pathfinder would basically be just another heavy duty OSR clone, of which there are many.
The same thing could have happened to Traveller. Imagine if Digest Group had kept it together and come out with their own in-house Golden Age inspired 'hard' SF roleplaying game, set on the fringes of an expansive Interstellar Empire, just at the time New Era came out and dropped the old Imperium as a setting. It's not impossible that the entire Traveller fan base could have split down the middle.
Simon Hibbs
After action report on my recent trip to theRPGsite to test the waters:
Made initial contact with the local population and found it unimaginably hostile.
[.. stating that I like having an adventure that involves a story bigger than just the party, brings accusations that I am telling the world how to play and that they are having 'badwrong fun' - whatever the heck that means.]
There are some friendly natives who warn newcomers that the local tribe practices 'baptism by fire', and that we will be fine as long as we survive this initiation period.
If this were just about "I didn't have fun", then I wouldn't have mentioned it at all.
The reason that I mention this is because I started a discussion on Traveller and spun off a new [Traveller] topic to respond to a specific question on Traveller Chargen.
What I learned was:
1. a few people seem familiar with Traveller (very few) and many of them played Classic Traveller back in the day.
2. many people have heard of Traveller, but only know about it second hand.
3. there seems to be a general interest in learning more about Traveller if you can start to talk about how the game is actually played.
What I would recommend for anyone thinking of visiting theRPGsite to discuss Traveller is:
A. Don't do it.
B. If you ignore "A" and decide to go anyway, forget putting on a thicker skin ... go straight to Full Battle Dress.
C. It is located in the middle of a festering swamp, so prepare for swarms of mosquitoes. If you start swatting at the mosquitoes, it will only draw more mosquitoes and you will spend all of your time focusing on the pests.
D. Engage the locals in strategic conversations. Talk with whoever is 'listening' and ignore the rest. Avoid conversations on a theoretical level ... that way lies madness (and flamewars). Focus on actual playing Traveller ... rules specifics and what you like, then let them decide for themselves if they want to know more.
E. Come prepared for unimaginable rudeness, profanity and trolling ... I was serious about the swamp analogy ... it is an innately unfriendly place.
F. Don't do it. (That needed to be said more than once).
PS. A public and personal 'Thank You' to Hans Rancke, without whose support on theRPGsite, I would not have stayed long enough to discover that there are actually non-Traveller RPG players interested in learning about Traveller.
PPS: Thank You, Hunter and Marc and Aramis and the moderators who came before, for COTI. I have seen what COTI would be without moderation and I will never again even think about complaining about an 'unfair' decision.
Made initial contact with the local population and found it unimaginably hostile.
[.. stating that I like having an adventure that involves a story bigger than just the party, brings accusations that I am telling the world how to play and that they are having 'badwrong fun' - whatever the heck that means.]
There are some friendly natives who warn newcomers that the local tribe practices 'baptism by fire', and that we will be fine as long as we survive this initiation period.
If this were just about "I didn't have fun", then I wouldn't have mentioned it at all.
The reason that I mention this is because I started a discussion on Traveller and spun off a new [Traveller] topic to respond to a specific question on Traveller Chargen.
What I learned was:
1. a few people seem familiar with Traveller (very few) and many of them played Classic Traveller back in the day.
2. many people have heard of Traveller, but only know about it second hand.
3. there seems to be a general interest in learning more about Traveller if you can start to talk about how the game is actually played.
What I would recommend for anyone thinking of visiting theRPGsite to discuss Traveller is:
A. Don't do it.
B. If you ignore "A" and decide to go anyway, forget putting on a thicker skin ... go straight to Full Battle Dress.
C. It is located in the middle of a festering swamp, so prepare for swarms of mosquitoes. If you start swatting at the mosquitoes, it will only draw more mosquitoes and you will spend all of your time focusing on the pests.
D. Engage the locals in strategic conversations. Talk with whoever is 'listening' and ignore the rest. Avoid conversations on a theoretical level ... that way lies madness (and flamewars). Focus on actual playing Traveller ... rules specifics and what you like, then let them decide for themselves if they want to know more.
E. Come prepared for unimaginable rudeness, profanity and trolling ... I was serious about the swamp analogy ... it is an innately unfriendly place.
F. Don't do it. (That needed to be said more than once).
PS. A public and personal 'Thank You' to Hans Rancke, without whose support on theRPGsite, I would not have stayed long enough to discover that there are actually non-Traveller RPG players interested in learning about Traveller.
PPS: Thank You, Hunter and Marc and Aramis and the moderators who came before, for COTI. I have seen what COTI would be without moderation and I will never again even think about complaining about an 'unfair' decision.
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Even so, I think the Fantasy game is easier to pick up than Traveller because the setting and play are slightly easier.
The [Traveller] thread you started there was nice reading for me. But then I already have the offending posters there blocked, so I could read through the thread without all the garbage in it.
festering swamp
:rofl:
Well you know what they say happens to people that spend their entire lives playing D&D? Absolutely nothing:file_21:
In fact, that is one reason I liked T20. I could harvest players and hand them a starship. A few neighboring capital ships (battlestars) to impress scale on would be terrorists and Virus to crush those that would oppose the ref. Ended up with a crowd that respected the game and had fun.
I'd upgrade that armor to a Heavy FBD with a neck backplate and ZOC auto defense software with the anti-thief module and a fusion gun. :smirk:
:rofl:
Well you know what they say happens to people that spend their entire lives playing D&D? Absolutely nothing:file_21:
In fact, that is one reason I liked T20. I could harvest players and hand them a starship. A few neighboring capital ships (battlestars) to impress scale on would be terrorists and Virus to crush those that would oppose the ref. Ended up with a crowd that respected the game and had fun.
I'd upgrade that armor to a Heavy FBD with a neck backplate and ZOC auto defense software with the anti-thief module and a fusion gun. :smirk:
Could someone PM me a link to one of those threads? I cruised their boards briefly, and couldn't find anything.
Unfortunately, I am being dogged by a moderator. Since I can't ignore him and find the attacks tiresome, I have yielded theRPGsite to others.
At 51 years old, life is too short to deal with that.
I find the general honesty over there somewhat refreshing... tho' the cesspit nature and almost total lack of moderation is problematic.
Unlike RPG net, the hostility is open and in your face.
It's a cesspit, but one with the occasional gems.
Rooster Cogburn
SOC-9
No offense meant, but.....
No offense meant, but.....
......my initial forays into exploring Traveller (2005-ish), after having messed around with MT back in the early 90s and just getting back into general gaming again after a work/life imposed hiatus, was not very pleasant. I'm not a dumb guy, but I am an accountant by trade and a science layperson. When I first started to interact with Traveller Laity, it was shocking that fellow gamers were so condescending and nasty to those who were making an attempt to enter the hobby.
My experience over the last few years to get my groups to even consider the game may reflect my past experiences as they seem happy to play SW, ST and WH40K.
No offense meant, but.....
......my initial forays into exploring Traveller (2005-ish), after having messed around with MT back in the early 90s and just getting back into general gaming again after a work/life imposed hiatus, was not very pleasant. I'm not a dumb guy, but I am an accountant by trade and a science layperson. When I first started to interact with Traveller Laity, it was shocking that fellow gamers were so condescending and nasty to those who were making an attempt to enter the hobby.
My experience over the last few years to get my groups to even consider the game may reflect my past experiences as they seem happy to play SW, ST and WH40K.
None taken.
I have never intentionally been condescending let alone nasty, but I've been told on several occasions that I've come across that way. I guess that when you're discussing issues that we grognards have been discussing for a couple of decades, you can be disposed to treat the same old fallacies a bit curtly when they crop up for the umpteenth time. But I can assure you that most of us have our hearts in the right place and are only trying to be helpful.
My advice to newcomers is that when faced with something that can be interpreted two ways, go with the positive interpretation. The grognard that appears to be offensive to you is most probably being inept rather than malicious. Tell him your concerns and usually he'll make haste to clear up any misunderstanding.
To paraphrase one of my favorite aphorisms, never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by exasperation.
Hans
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Strange, others seem to be able to talk Traveller there without giving offense. Maybe it was your approach? Golan doesn't seem to be having any problems and neither do others, myself included.
(C, modified slightly) and (D, as is) are excellent advice for discussing Traveller here on COTI, as well.
No maybe about it. I am not 100% certain what I did wrong. Bad luck with when I chose to check it out, which topics I selected to post on, and who I first encountered played a part ... but the lion's share of the blame belongs to me.
The only clarification that I would make to your assessment is that I never went there to 'talk Traveller'. I was curious about a site described as the Moss Eisley cantina of forums and selected a topic on death in Old School RPGs. The Traveler discussion was an organic outgrowth of that.
cf. "What Type of Player are you" Thread
Note the results from the "[FONT=arial,helvetica]What Type of Player are you"[/FONT] thread[FONT=arial,helvetica]. [/FONT]
(Category Breakdowns: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=458965&postcount=69 )
It's rather interesting to note that the vast majority of us seem to primarily fall into either the Character Player or Storyteller category. That might be something to keep in mind as people are thinking about expanding the popularity of Traveller: It seems to appeal most to a particular type of roleplayer.
Note the results from the "[FONT=arial,helvetica]What Type of Player are you"[/FONT] thread[FONT=arial,helvetica]. [/FONT]
(Category Breakdowns: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=458965&postcount=69 )
It's rather interesting to note that the vast majority of us seem to primarily fall into either the Character Player or Storyteller category. That might be something to keep in mind as people are thinking about expanding the popularity of Traveller: It seems to appeal most to a particular type of roleplayer.
If you're a referee who prefers that kind of play.
I've found that it's harder to get Traveller Referees than it is to get Traveller Players, so maybe we should work on building better Traveller Referees that are good at explaining the rules in an easily understandable way.
It also has to do with the fact that people can't see facial expressions and body language over the Internet. Sarcasm is usually lost unless pointed out, and such like that.
It also has to do with the fact that people can't see facial expressions and body language over the Internet. Sarcasm is usually lost unless pointed out, and such like that.
