Information on Massilia Sector

[Gray Lensman]

I am going to start putting together a campaign (a Hard Times/TNE scenario using CT and MT rules) in so called "Wild Space". Near as I can tell there was never very much (other than UWP) on Massilia Sector and it is basically ALL "Wild Space". Am I right or am I missing something somewhere that you "Gurus" can point me to. I will be "regressing UWPs for post virus hard times but do not want to overstep any Canon data either.

 

[far-trader]

I thought it got treatment in a Challenge article during the Rebellion or TNE years? Or I could be confusing it with another sector

EDIT: Thanks Hans. Knightfall, had that, that's why Massilia rang a bell. Pity it's "flawed". I think I'd read something at the time about it being a choice by the author(s)/editor(s) to upgrade the systems to reflect the core nature of the sector and a long history.

 

[rancke]

Massila was the venue for the adventure Knightfall, which, in addition to UWPs, contains infornation about Engorr (Massilia 1809), Khishan (1910), Datrumna, and 12 or more other worlds.

Sadly, there is a major problem with the UWPs, as they contain a big mistake or a big retcon, depending on who you ask. Basically, previously published material had established that TL 15 was the Imperial maximum. The highest available in the Imperium. Yet the UWPs inKnightfall had been fiddled to produce a whole slew of TL 16 worlds in Massilia (I can't remember how many; 24 or thereabouts I think). At least, I assume that the same random character generation sytem that produces one TL 16 world in 400 didn't randomly come up with a score in this particular set of 400 systems.

(My suggestion would be to assume that the so-called TL 16 worlds are all TL 15 worlds that are borderline TL 16 in one particular field each.)



Hans

 

[Maladominus]

I always called it "The Geonee Sector".

 

[Gray Lensman]

Dang Sometimers Disorder

I forgot all about Knight Fall, hehe, I even have a copy somewhere.

I kinda believe that certain older worlds in the heart of the Imperium would be TL 16 even if only in one or two areas. (Weren't Vincennes and the Darrians Worlds in SM also TL16?).

I am planning on regressing the Data "HARD" so that the campaign will revolve around several small polities rebuilding and recontacting/conflicting with each other. With this in mind the TL 16 worlds may be the only ones that survive the process to remain able to support starflight/ship construction.

I also found the 2003 thread about this sector interesting and useful.

Thanks Gentlemen.

Now to go to the attic and look for Knight Fall ;-}

 

[rancke]

I kinda believe that certain older worlds in the heart of the Imperium would be TL 16 even if only in one or two areas.

So can I. I even think it's a good idea. A source of prototype gimmicks that most people have only heard of as rumors or don't even realize exist. Not as items that several high-population worlds crank out by the millions. And certainly not as technology that 24 high-population worlds can crank out by the tens of millions, enough to equip the entire Imperial military establishment.

It's true that even that contradicts the statement that TL 15 is the Imperium maximum, but interpreting that to mean that the maximum High Common TL of any Imperial world is 15 is at least not nearly as big a retcon.

(Weren't Vincennes and the Darrians Worlds in SM also TL16?).

Yes. As I mentioned, the world generation system turns one out every once in a while. Personally, I firmly believe that raw UWPs are an unfinished product that needs to be vetted by an intelligent being prior to release. This would either produce an explanation for odd UWPS (Darrian TL is actually High Common 13 with 15 in several spheres, but they have quite a few TL 16 relics, so the fool Scout Census official put the TL at 16) or corrected (This world is actually TL 15, but borderline TL 16 in [rolls dice for technology], so I'll change the UWP to 15 and mention the TL 16 stuff in a note). Sadly, whoever wrote up Vincennes didn't take the hint from 'Darrians'.

I am planning on regressing the Data "HARD" so that the campaign will revolve around several small polities rebuilding and recontacting/conflicting with each other. With this in mind the TL 16 worlds may be the only ones that survive the process to remain able to support starflight/ship construction.

Wouldn't a TL 16 world be even more vulnerable to Virus? When I was working on the TML Pocket Empire project, we selected TL 9 worlds to be the nuclei of rebuilding.


Hans

 

[Gray Lensman]

Wouldn't a TL 16 world be even more vulnerable to Virus? When I was working on the TML Pocket Empire project, we selected TL 9 worlds to be the nuclei of rebuilding.

Oh yes, I quite agree, After I wreck the UWPs I will have to see what I can come up with. Virus will ruin a lot, but not peoples memories. In the rebuilding I think that starport grade will be just as important as TL. After all, takes a certain grade of port to build ships.

Knightfall wasn't in the attic, gotta call sis and get her to check my stuff there. ;-{

 

[rancke]

Virus will ruin a lot, but not peoples memories.

No, but memories alone won't build high technology. You need textbooks. And if the textbooks are stored in actual books, you can read it even if you've regressed to TL 0. If they're stored on vinyl, you can read them as soon as your mechanical skills are up to making a phonograph. If they're stored on a primitive electronic medium, you need a slightly higher TL, on CDs a bit higher, etc. And if they're stored on TL 12 holocrytals with TL 15 encryption schemes, you'll need to claw your way back up to TL 14 before you can get a peek at your instruction manuals. This was one of the two reasons we chose to go with TL 9 societies (the second was that a TL 9 society would be less vulnerable to Virus and thus not fall as far in tech capabilities in the first place).

In the rebuilding I think that starport grade will be just as important as TL. After all, takes a certain grade of port to build ships.

It'd give an advantage in that there'd be production machinery to reverse-engineer and restore. A world without a shipyard would be handicapped. But any world with a good knowledge repository (library, university, etc.) would have a chance.



Hans

 

[Gray Lensman]

Valid points

A very valid breakdown. When I get to rolling up the regression I will see what UWPs I come up with. Then I will roll the clock forward a bit and see where the cores of a few little pockets seem logical.

Just talked to sis, no Knightfall, guess it's time to breakdown and get the MT cd ;-(

 

[DaveChase]

No, but memories alone won't build high technology. You need textbooks. And if the textbooks are stored in actual books, you can read it even if you've regressed to TL 0. If they're stored on vinyl, you can read them as soon as your mechanical skills are up to making a phonograph. If they're stored on a primitive electronic medium, you need a slightly higher TL, on CDs a bit higher, etc. And if they're stored on TL 12 holocrytals with TL 15 encryption schemes, you'll need to claw your way back up to TL 14 before you can get a peek at your instruction manuals. This was one of the two reasons we chose to go with TL 9 societies (the second was that a TL 9 society would be less vulnerable to Virus and thus not fall as far in tech capabilities in the first place).



It'd give an advantage in that there'd be production machinery to reverse-engineer and restore. A world without a shipyard would be handicapped. But any world with a good knowledge repository (library, university, etc.) would have a chance.



Hans

Now if those stones just would not deteriate over time, I would have the secerts of life and death, who the Watchers were and be king of ...., Well it seems the text ends there after the wall colapsed. (sigh)

Depends on what it is stored on and where it is stored. We have salt mines here in Kansas (United States) and even some of those records stored there have to be reviewed for deteriation regularly.
But I do like how you listed the various TL's way of storing information. Thanks

Dave Chase

 

[rancke]

Depends on what it is stored on and where it is stored.

Stored on whatever storage medium is favored by the people of this particular world (whichever world that may be) and stored in every library in the world. Proprietary technologies may be lost, but not the basic technologies. They're just stored in too many places.

We have salt mines here in Kansas (United States) and even some of those records stored there have to be reviewed for deteriation regularly.

OTOH, the KEO project has engraved glass CDs and exposed them to as much radiation as they'd be exposed to in 50,000 years of orbiting Earth, and they survived just fine. I've deliberately ignored time capsule type repositories because they'd be designed with loss of technological capability in mind, and the official timeline requires a 70 year hiatus.



Hans

 

[DaveChase]

Stored on whatever storage medium is favored by the people of this particular world (whichever world that may be) and stored in every library in the world. Proprietary technologies may be lost, but not the basic technologies. They're just stored in too many places.

...

I've deliberately ignored time capsule type repositories because they'd be designed with loss of technological capability in mind, and the official timeline requires a 70 year hiatus.

Hans

Well, sounds reasonable.
I was thinking of a longer time period of say no more than 1000 years, when I made my initial comment.

There is the destoryers of all knowledge that led us to this problem. They destroy every library and data records that they can find. But there are always some individuals who have a private library just because they like collecting facts, history, how tos and etc.
This could lead to a interesting scenario if played out by characters of that world.

But that is not what you all are talking/leading up to. But thanks for the clarification about the time frame.

Dave Chase

 

[Starviking]

My suggestion would be to assume that the so-called TL 16 worlds are all TL 15 worlds that are borderline TL 16 in one particular field each.

Coming into this a bit late, gomen ne?

Seeing that Massilia borders on Core Sector then perhaps the TL-16 worlds there are a structured attempt by the Imperium to grow a solid Imperial TL-16 area.

Going with your suggestion to focus on one area per world, the Imperium's initial goal is to develop the bare framework of a TL-16 society - but spread across the sector. Now there'd be lots of trial and error, some of the technology will dead-end - but once they've got the basics firmed-up then they can think about how to bring the rest of the Imperium up to the TL-16 standard whilst watching how Massilia matures.

Kind of like Research Station, but on a much larger scale and much more dispersed in nature.

As for Vincennes - perhaps it's linked to the study of Darrian pre-Maghiz science in some way? I.e. as TL-16 as the Darrians - save that they may be getting 'updates' from Massilia (and Massilia getting updates from them).

Also, Dethenes in Subsector A of the Old Expanses could be linked into the Massilia 'experiment' hypotheses - if only its semi-independent status could be reconciled. It's the core of the Dethenes Technical Alliance, from the days of High Passage magazine.

Not an elegant solution - but my viewpoint has always been that TL-15 being the Mature tech level of the whole Imperium does not preclude a few higher tech systems being scattered about - though they would not be very mature. (I remember something about 'Mature Tech' from an article on the Dynchia in an isue of JTAS, I just can't recall the details right now.)