Rules Only: Is there a case for a new skill of "Loadmaster"?

[Redcap]

Along the lines of "Don't park this next to that, there's likely to be a bit of a reaction that could ruin your whole day" (Radwaste alongside blank x-ray plates, for example, at the mildest end

Yeah, thought about that too, along with hazmat signage, etc. You're spot on, though, and unlike the majority of loadmastery skills (which are learned on the job), that WOULD be likely be a "classroom-taught" skill, primarily, I would have thought, due to the 3I requiring this to be a certified skill, so as not to allow dangerous practices to affect other shipping or ports (no bulk powder shipping with naked spark or flame sources nearby, sort of thing).

 

[Redcap]

Just make a career template and add whatever skills you think Travellers might need for a game.

I may well go down that route for a tourny game I'm working on; however, it occurred to me that others might find the topic useful, and at the very least, I needed to get opinions: Hence, this thread

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

The "There's no benefit from success, only penalties for failure" excuse also holds no weight - Navigation is already such (excepting in TNE). So is Engineering in CT. And also, Admin. They're used for avoiding problems in the CT and later mechanics, seldom for actually accomplishing some PC goals.

I think the difference is that nav, engineering and Admin can be:

A) used creatively in a proactive manner to achieve something (for example, use Admin to game the system and get around bureaucracy, or Engineering to overclock a reactor for a little extra power), while the proposed "loadmaster" skill or task would basically be almost a passive "saving throw" type skill. the other skills have "carrot" uses, this just has a "stick"


B) its hardly "Heroic". I know that Nav or Admin aren't really classical heroic, but we are all aware of situations where a character with good skils in those areas can "save the day" and advance the plot in some useful way (for example, working though the layers of shell corporations and such to work out who really owns the company the players are investigating), where as loading.....just seems like a boring real job that needs to be done, and I struggle to see a situation where the skill would be anything other than a speed trap.


C) the price of a failure isn't meaningful. Nav, admin, engineering, they all have times when you simply must make that roll, when you really need that jump drive working again, ect. Therefore, their is a meaningful and/or dramatic price of failure. but if you fail a loadie roll, whats the result? either loss of time (if you need to repack the hold), which is a nebulous concept in most games anyway (especially as cargo loading would normally happen in the "downtime" parts of an adventure where there are no time pressures), or a loss of money if cargo is damaged due to improper storage, which, while it something the players care about, is unlikely to actually harm them in the long run (or it shouldn't if your GM is doing his job right.).




Now, I;m not saying that their are no RP opportunities that can come out of cargo and cargo handling. I;m saying that their are no RP opportunities that can come out of the cargo handling skill, only frustrations and minor, annoying setbacks without any real benefits. I can see that the "job" of loadmaster would be a good crew position for a character without much in the way of starship skills that needs a reason to be on the ship, however (for example, a "gun bunny" ex marine, or that scientist who has no other reason to be roving round the galaxy).

So, in the end, we have a skill that makes it harder for us to do something the players do all the time, but doesn't really let them do something better, new or different.

 

[Garyius2003]

Real life example, the field slingloading class for helos was a 2 day class in the late 1980s USMC (typed Marines at first, then I remembered we have Brits here). It was taught by the Landing Support Battalion.

We already had mil vehicle licenses and my class was all in the air wing.

I ended up being the only controller in my class, and a lot of people had mic fright, so I got to be the outside director most of the time. Perfectly fine with that, even with the special helmets it was scary under there.

My point is that a lot of the included skills can be taught in short amounts of time.

 

[Redcap]

Real life example, the field slingloading class for helos was a 2 day class in the late 1980s USMC (typed Marines at first, then I remembered we have Brits here). It was taught by the Landing Support Battalion.

We already had mil vehicle licenses and my class was all in the air wing.

I ended up being the only controller in my class, and a lot of people had mic fright, so I got to be the outside director most of the time. Perfectly fine with that, even with the special helmets it was scary under there.

My point is that a lot of the included skills can be taught in short amounts of time.

The RMP (Royal Military Police), and the army as a whole, taught helo/ground hand signalling ops to certain key personnel; it was also included as an aide memoire in the commanders battle book, a filofax sized binder issued to Platoon Commanders.

Back on topic, I follow the arguments regarding game play et al, as well as the various comments/arguments regarding whether such a skill or derivative skill, should exist at all. I need to think further on this one, it seems.

Many thanks to all who have contributed to the thread.

 

[Ulsyus]

In Traveller, there are skills for working with passengers, notably 'Steward', but none appear to deal with cargos and/or freight. I believe this, on reflection, to be a serious omission.

The first question could be - will it help make the game more enjoyable for your players, and give one of them a unique role in the functioning of the ship they're running?

In T5, Freightmaster is listed under the Steward skill.

BBB p170, though it lists it (top of column two) as an additional duty for the Steward. Is there any reason this couldn't be a specialisation for a particular steward?

My point is that a lot of the included skills can be taught in short amounts of time.

So organising the loading of a Free/Far/Subsidised Trader cargo hold may have a little more in it than slinging a load, but it could still fall within a type of specialisation within the Steward skill just for simplicity's sake.

 

[Redcap]

The first question could be - will it help make the game more enjoyable for your players, and give one of them a unique role in the functioning of the ship they're running?

I don't know about more enjoyable, certainly it'll add a unique skill/ability to one of the crew of a small freighter/trader, at the very least; in terms of the tourny adventure I'm writing, it'll make it easier for the referee to move certain key elements of the adventure onwards; without the skill, it's still possible, but it means a little more - ahem - innocent PC shoving might be required to nudge them in the right direction.

BBB p170, though it lists it (top of column two) as an additional duty for the Steward. Is there any reason this couldn't be a specialisation for a particular steward?

No, not that I can see; it's certainly doable.

So organising the loading of a Free/Far/Subsidised Trader cargo hold may have a little more in it than slinging a load, but it could still fall within a type of specialisation within the Steward skill just for simplicity's sake.

I suspect that may be the way it goes, in the end.

Thanks for the comments, folks; I still have a bit of thinking to do on this Enjoy your weekends!

 

[coliver988]

As a side and still related note: BITS 101 Cargos does have rules for the labelling of cargos, as well as packaging. So warnings as to dangerous items (down to the sophont level - hey, this will kill Aslan only for instance) are part of that long code.

And I've also stuck it under steward after at least browsing the BBB. I may allow the next time I play that rolling steward the 2nd time you can start to specialize with load master, purser and other related skills. But that would only really apply if I play a merchant game I think (or military as per some of the samples given in this thread)

 

[Redcap]

I've got that (and a few more BITS products); I'm also a long-time member of BITS

I've always thought that the iconery (is that a word?) in that publication was a tad... rough... with the implementation seeming a little awkward (oh, all right, kack-handed and unwieldy) in places; still, the basic idea's there, alright.

However, it didn't take into account the little idiosyncrasies of Hazmat handling with items in the same hazard grouping being utterly destructive when parked alongside each other - I'm not a chemist, but think of the potential of two detergents when mixed to produce unwanted side effects, and you'll have a good idea of what havoc and mayhem that could be wrought for other products or substances

 

[kilemall]

I've got that (and a few more BITS products); I'm also a long-time member of BITS

I've always thought that the iconery (is that a word?) in that publication was a tad... rough... with the implementation seeming a little awkward (oh, all right, kack-handed and unwieldy) in places; still, the basic idea's there, alright.

However, it didn't take into account the little idiosyncrasies of Hazmat handling with items in the same hazard grouping being utterly destructive when parked alongside each other - I'm not a chemist, but think of the potential of two detergents when mixed to produce unwanted side effects, and you'll have a good idea of what havoc and mayhem that could be wrought for other products or substances

Railroads have a series of rules for building trains that keeps certain items away from others, and they will add empty buffer cars around particularly dangerous loads and a buffer car between the locomotive crew and hazmat cars.

I have more extensive rules regarding hazardous cargo, including higher carry rates but also higher costs for risk, handling, etc.

Also, reconfiguring the hold for bulk carry, temporary bulkheads that are filled up with whatever liquid/solid so it's sealed and more of the available dtons are fully used, and then pass inspection.

The idea is that the standard Cr1000 carry is predicated on relatively safe cargo being hauled in sealed containers that incurs little risk or overhead and liability is wholly on the shipper bar serious negligence by the starport or ship.

But if dangerous/exotic material is being shipped, or the cargo hold is reconfigured to carry say food items in a cryo state in open volume, it likely requires a specialist, and the higher value justifies the position.

Consider just a jump to Cr3000- that means 4 tons of freight brings in Cr12000, more then a high passenger.

Another reason to have a loadmaster would be successful hauling and reduced drayage. You could have a similar bonus to Stewards bringing in passenger tickets with a plus loadmaster, more freight lots.

 

[Redcap]

Ooo Now THERE'S a good bunch of ideas Thanks

 

[flykiller]

I'm not a chemist, but think of the potential of two detergents when mixed to produce unwanted side effects, and you'll have a good idea of what havoc and mayhem that could be wrought for other products or substances

makes combat hits to the cargo bay a little more interesting.

been reading the horatio hornblower series. the brits capture a ship loaded with rice, the ship took damage but the rice was absorbing all the incoming water so everyone thought the ship was intact, then the rice starts to swell and eventually pries the ship apart.

 

[Redcap]

heh. Nothing so mundane, in the adventure I'm re-writing (after close to 30 years since last running it)... but I'm not about to spill the beans on that one until AFTER TravConUK'18

Also, OK on the Hornblower mishap - hadn't heard of that one, but it's a good one

 

[Black Vulmea]

First time I saw a reference to it was LBB8 as a Cargo Handling skill for robots.

Cargo Handling was presented as a skill in Paranoia Press' Merchants & Merchandise five years before Book 9.

I allow Merchant characters to take Cargo Handling in place of Steward.

 

[Timerover51]

Cargo Handling was presented as a skill in Paranoia Press' Merchants & Merchandise five years before Book 9.

I allow Merchant characters to take Cargo Handling in place of Steward.

If you are talking about break-bulk cargo, i.e. cargo in discrete packages, then a Loadmaster skill would be valid. If you assume that most cargo is transported in standard containers, then a Loadmaster skill is less needed. Loadmaster would have much more to do on nautical vessels, making sure that the weight of cargo is distributed properly throughout the ship, and on aircraft making sure that the center of gravity is not messed up by too heavy a weight on one end.

 

[kilemall]

If you are talking about break-bulk cargo, i.e. cargo in discrete packages, then a Loadmaster skill would be valid. If you assume that most cargo is transported in standard containers, then a Loadmaster skill is less needed. Loadmaster would have much more to do on nautical vessels, making sure that the weight of cargo is distributed properly throughout the ship, and on aircraft making sure that the center of gravity is not messed up by too heavy a weight on one end.

Depending on your view, starships may or may not be just as affected as aircraft in gravity wells/atmosphere. Also, load shifting has a greater importance when you could be doing accels of 10 meter per second or greater.

 

[BlackBat242]

Depending on your view, starships may or may not be just as affected as aircraft in gravity wells/atmosphere. Also, load shifting has a greater importance when you could be doing accels of 10 meter per second per second or greater.

Fixed that for you.

Acceleration is in m/s².

 

[kilemall]

Fixed that for you.

Acceleration is in m/s².

Fine, the point being loose cargo that isn't secured may find itself intersecting the back part of the cargo bay at a significant kinetic speed.

 

[BRJN]

IRL, the Gallipoli Campaign (1915) was significantly affected by having to stop to combat-load a British Division that had been travel-loaded and sent off in the general direction of a fight.

The Interstellar Wars book has a few pages about stevedores and Cargomasters. It basically says "you can usually pay somebody to unload your ship for you."

If you are running a campaign with a lot of skullduggery, having a Cargomaster could give you a chance to notice something 'not quite right' - documentation errors, hazardous materials not marked as such, both parts of a two-part explosive to be loaded aboard your ship, being set up to fail an inspection. But if most life is above-board, the skill would seem to be less useful.

 

[Whipsnade]

The Interstellar Wars book has a few pages about stevedores and Cargomasters.

Far Trader has even more.

If you are running a campaign with a lot of skullduggery, having a Cargomaster could give you a chance to notice something 'not quite right' - documentation errors, hazardous materials not marked as such, both parts of a two-part explosive to be loaded aboard your ship, being set up to fail an inspection. But if most life is above-board, the skill would seem to be less useful.

That's the Friction mechanic from SWN's Suns of Gold. Crawford wrote up a process where the results of various "side quests" can effect provide positive or negative DMs for the players' trade deals.