Rules Only: Is there a case for a new skill of "Loadmaster"?

[Timerover51]

IRL, the Gallipoli Campaign (1915) was significantly affected by having to stop to combat-load a British Division that had been travel-loaded and sent off in the general direction of a fight.

The Interstellar Wars book has a few pages about stevedores and Cargomasters. It basically says "you can usually pay somebody to unload your ship for you."

If you are running a campaign with a lot of skullduggery, having a Cargomaster could give you a chance to notice something 'not quite right' - documentation errors, hazardous materials not marked as such, both parts of a two-part explosive to be loaded aboard your ship, being set up to fail an inspection. But if most life is above-board, the skill would seem to be less useful.

The comment with respect to the Gallipoli Campaign is correct as the British 29th Division was shipped out with equipment loaded for dockside uploading. I will have to check Ian Hamilton on exactly how it was shipped, but it was not ready for combat. We have problems with poor combat loading in the Torch Invasion of North Africa, with some necessary equipment, like ambulances, being located in the bottom of the cargo holds. Some of the reports making for interesting reading on how not to do things.

Again referring to Operation Torch, we and the British did not have enough manpower to clear cargo off of the beaches, so hired local Arabs to do the job. At Safi. Morocco, a check a couple of days later revealed tons of pilfered rations and ammunition in native fishing boats to be carried elsewhere along the coast. You can always find people willing to unload a ship, as long as they can grab what they want. The Army discovered that for cargo unloading in North Africa, the Quartermaster Corps had to assume an 8% pilferage rate overall, higher for stuff like rations and PX supplies.

As for Cargomasters spotting problems, you are assuming things are properly marked. Again looking at the U.S. Army experience in World War 2, there were major problems during the buildup for the Normandy invasion with getting cargo properly labeled in the U.S. for shipment. Some units had their equipment missing for weeks until it was located, having been ship separately from them. Again, it makes for interesting reading on how not to do things.

 

[Ulsyus]

I'm convinced. The next ship-based game I run that involves characters manning or owning an ACS trader of some description will see the need for a freightmaster, or character with some skills in that field, needed on the crew. I can see the Starport Authority requiring certification from a vessel before approving various hazardous materials, or combinations that could be hazardous, being loaded onto a vessel. Minimum safety standards stuff really. Especially if the same vessel is also loading passengers. If the SPA didn't require that because of particular policies in a system or subsector (say, quite libertarian or such) then there'd be scope for other organisations or guidebooks (as such) to recommend particular lines, vessels or routes where that sort of things was still done so that passengers could choose safer vessels, or less safe but cheaper passage.

There's some scenario options in there that are coming to me...

 

[Condottiere]

Commercially, if you can off shore labour, it probably is cheaper, since you'll only likely need him for the loading and unloading, and don't need to have an extra air breather to waste your precious life support, which I presume costs more than his salary.

With the military, you might want to keep as many capabilities inhouse as possible.

 

[Timerover51]

I"m convinced. The next ship-based game I run that involves characters manning or owning an ACS trader of some description will see the need for a freightmaster, or character with some skills in that field, needed on the crew. I can see the Starport Authority requiring certification from a vessel before approving various hazardous materials, or combinations that could be hazardous, being loaded onto a vessel. Minimum safety standards stuff really. Especially if the same vessel is also loading passengers. If the SPA didn't require that because of particular policies in a system or subsector (say, quite libertarian or such) then there'd be scope for other organisations or guidebooks (as such) to recommend particular lines, vessels or routes where that sort of things was still done so that passengers could choose safer vessels, or less safe but cheaper passage.

There's some scenario options in there that are coming to me...

I keep thinking along the lines of the Cargo-master position in Andre Norton's "Solar Queen" series. A Cargo-master not simply in charge of loading, but also skilled as a Broker and cargo finder.

 

[BlackBat242]

I keep thinking along the lines of the Cargo-master position in Andre Norton's "Solar Queen" series. A Cargo-master not simply in charge of loading, but also skilled as a Broker and cargo finder.

And also in dealing with alien societies - basically the cargomaster & apprentice cargoman were expected to learn/know the cultural peculiarities of their destination to not only determine what cargo they needed to pick up, but what NOT to try to sell there, what to do socially/politically/religiously to improve trade success and to prevent mishap/running afoul of the law or cultural specifics.

For ex: Most crew might not know that showing the sole of their boot to someone on world 1876A is a threat to trample them into the dirt, but the cargomaster was supposed to, and to inform the crew before anyone is let off the ship.

 

[Timerover51]

And also in dealing with alien societies - basically the cargomaster & apprentice cargoman were expected to learn/know the cultural peculiarities of their destination to not only determine what cargo they needed to pick up, but what NOT to try to sell there, what to do socially/politically/religiously to improve trade success and to prevent mishap/running afoul of the law or cultural specifics.

For ex: Most crew might not know that showing the sole of their boot to someone on world 1876A is a threat to trample them into the dirt, but the cargomaster was supposed to, and to inform the crew before anyone is let off the ship.

Thank you for fleshing my comment out a bit, Black Bat.

 

[BRJN]

Again referring to Operation Torch, we and the British did not have enough manpower to clear cargo off of the beaches

Gen. George Patton briefly states in War As I Knew It that the most important thing he had to do that day was to personally unload cargo from the Morocco beaches. But he does not explain further. The reader can figure out a serious supply / logistics breakdown has happened - given his druthers, the General would have shown up at or near a fight.

 

[Winged Cat]

I keep thinking along the lines of the Cargo-master position in Andre Norton's "Solar Queen" series. A Cargo-master not simply in charge of loading, but also skilled as a Broker and cargo finder.

Which suggests that, while it might not be needed for the ship's operations in flight, a position for which the primary qualification is the Broker skill (thinking in terms of High Guard crew assignments, much like the Officer position requires Tactics or Leadership skill) is essentially required for all mercantile ships - much like someone with Astrogation skill is required for all ships engaging in jump, even if that someone has nothing to do 99+% of the time (if someone else doesn't simply have Astrogation too, and takes a break from their normal duties when it's time to calculate a jump, which in practice is likely what happens with Broker: most of the time you're using it, you don't have any other ship duties to tend to).

 

[Black Vulmea]

If you are talking about break-bulk cargo, i.e. cargo in discrete packages, then a Loadmaster skill would be valid. If you assume that most cargo is transported in standard containers, then a Loadmaster skill is less needed.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Loadmaster would have much more to do on nautical vessels, making sure that the weight of cargo is distributed properly throughout the ship, and on aircraft making sure that the center of gravity is not messed up by too heavy a weight on one end.

You're thinking like someone who's never been outside of a gravity well then landed on worlds with different gravity, atmosphere, hydrosphere, climate, day/night cycles, or alien cultures and their attendant trade practices.

Imagine bigger.

I keep thinking along the lines of the Cargo-master position in Andre Norton's "Solar Queen" series. A Cargo-master not simply in charge of loading, but also skilled as a Broker and cargo finder.

The M&M skill provides a bonus on locating cargo - not too much of a stretch to think it was influenced by Norton's stories.

 

[Timerover51]

You're thinking like someone who's never been outside of a gravity well then landed on worlds with different gravity, atmosphere, hydrosphere, climate, day/night cycles, or alien cultures and their attendant trade practices.

I am someone who had to learn how to handle cargo.

 

[Black Vulmea]

I am someone who had to learn how to handle cargo.

On a world with a chlorine atmosphere at 1.8 G?

On an ice world world with 0.5 G gravity?

On an asteroid in vacuum?

During a red star flare?

For aliens who are averse to anything shaped like a rectangle?

Imagine bigger.

 

[Winged Cat]

You're thinking like someone who's never been outside of a gravity well then landed on worlds with different gravity, atmosphere, hydrosphere, climate, day/night cycles, or alien cultures and their attendant trade practices.

Nah, TR's right. Even when going from world to world, you secure the cargo for the conditions you're leaving, get through takeoff, re-secure (if necessary) for the conditions you're traveling to at some point during the week-long jump, and...that's it, for that jump.

You're not spending the entire trip re-securing and re-re-securing as the ocean or air turbulence shifts your cargo, nudging it out of the balance you set up.

Granted, you do need to know a lot more conditions, and you'll be called on to look up data on new environments. ("Never been to a dense atmosphere world before? Look up the cautions and procedures in the library software, and know them cold before we arrive.") But that's just studying, and likely not much.

I'm not convinced this isn't covered under Broker and Admin, but it does reinforce the need for those skills on a merchant ship, just like Astrogation is required.

 

[Black Vulmea]

Even when going from world to world, you secure the cargo for the conditions you're leaving, get through takeoff, re-secure (if necessary) for the conditions you're traveling to at some point during the week-long jump, and...that's it, for that jump.

There's a great deal more to handling cargo than during jump, as I noted in my previous post, but even then there are considerations.

Frex, you pick up cargo on a jovian moon with a thin, oxygen-poor atmosphere and a gravity of .33 G en route to a water-world with a dense, oxygen- and carbon dioxide-rich atmosphere with a gravity of 1.2 G. Over the course of the week in jump-space, the captain is adjusting from the conditions at departure for the conditions at arrival, slowly increasing gravity and air pressure and changing composition so that passengers and cargo aren't woefully unprepared for conditions on arrival.

Does some of the cargo react to the changing pressure? the increase in oxygen or carbon dioxide? Does cargo need to be segregated for its protection and preservation? Atmosphere partitions? Grav plate adjustments?

This isn't Rotterdam to Abidjan or Long Beach to Singapore. Imagine bigger.

 

[aramis]

I am someone who had to learn how to handle cargo.

Spacecraft have similar load and balance issues, but the balance is about the center of thrust AND center of mass...

 

[Redcap]

I keep thinking along the lines of the Cargo-master position in Andre Norton's "Solar Queen" series. A Cargo-master not simply in charge of loading, but also skilled as a Broker and cargo finder.

OHO. That's an angle I'd not thought of. Good catch, thanks

 

[Redcap]

Spacecraft have similar load and balance issues, but the balance is about the center of thrust AND center of mass...

I mentioned that earlier, but not quite so concisely, and in relation to inter-atmospheric ops, but yeah, that's a key task for a loadmaster.

 

[Condottiere]

Stuff them into standard sized containers, and shuffle as per taste.

Then lock them down.

 

[khadaji2002]

So. After reading through all this what I've come away with is that one can make the case for a new "Loadmaster" skill. I'm hearing that skill would cover loading/unloading cargo in the most efficient way possible while keeping the cargo/crew/ship intact and safe during all phases of transport.

I'm also hearing that one could say that someone with ranks in Broker and Admin could be said to have above skills as a result of the synergy between the two. Or that if one incorporates the Loadmaster skill both of these skills would synergize with Loadmaster to provide bonuses to a number of tasks.

Did I get that close to the target?

 

[Timerover51]

So. After reading through all this what I've come away with is that one can make the case for a new "Loadmaster" skill. I'm hearing that skill would cover loading/unloading cargo in the most efficient way possible while keeping the cargo/crew/ship intact and safe during all phases of transport.

I'm also hearing that one could say that someone with ranks in Broker and Admin could be said to have above skills as a result of the synergy between the two. Or that if one incorporates the Loadmaster skill both of these skills would synergize with Loadmaster to provide bonuses to a number of tasks.

Did I get that close to the target?

I would say that the Broker and Admin skill combined would equal Loadmaster, or Cargo Master, depending on how you phrased it. Optionally, you could have them synergize with Loadmaster for a skill level boost.

Having been a supply officer, I would definitely argue for Loadmaster including the equivalent Admin skill level. There is this thing called "paperwork" to keep track of and people to deal with.

By the way, has anyone ever considered "Schmoozing" a Skill? I understand that the term is from the Yiddish, but around the north side of Chicago you do hear it a bit.

 

[khadaji2002]

By the way, has anyone ever considered "Schmoozing" a Skill? I understand that the term is from the Yiddish, but around the north side of Chicago you do hear it a bit.

I've always thought that what Carouse covered.