It's Here!

[tbeard1999]

HG effectively made B2 obsolete.

The problem with this claim is that GDW revised and reprinted CT with the LBB2 starship design system well after the release of the second edition of High Guard. (HG 2nd came out in 1980; CT LBB 2nd came out in 1981; The Traveller Book came out in 1982 and Starter Traveller in 1983).

In addition, High Guard explicitely allows ships to use Book 2 drives (HG 2nd p23).

So GDW never took the position that High Guard replaced the LBB2 system or rendered it obsolete.

I'd also note that the HG combat system has serious flaws when dealing with smaller warships without spinal mounts (under ~20kton in my experience at TL 14-; under ~10kton with TL15 power plants). Only spinal mounts have ratings of A+. And weapons of ratings of 9- have a +6 on the damage table. Armor adds to the damage roll and is only limited to tech level. This can easily result in warships that can't really hurt each other. For instance, I rerated my Book 2-designed "Virginia" class 5kton battleship in High Guard. The TL 12 ship had an armor factor of 12 and carried a maximum weaponry load (3 100 ton missile bays; 20 turrets/or 2 more 100 ton bays). The armor modifier (+12) and weapon factor 9- modifier (+6) meant that each hit would damage the ship only on a 2d6 roll of 3-. The only effective solution would be to use nuclear missiles, which would cause damage on a roll of 9-.

A battle between sensibly designed non-spinal mount warships* would be miserably unplayable unless both sides used nuclear weapons. Not my kind of universe.

EDIT -- the rule that allows weapons to score critical hits equal to the difference between the weapon code and target's size code offers minimal relief (and none at all if we're talking about sensibly armored ships bigger than ~200 tons).

*At TL13+, meson gun bays offer some theoretical ability to cause damage, since armor does not affect them. But they are effectively unable to penetrate even level 1 meson screens (a TL15 100 ton meson gun bay needs a 12+ to penetrate a level 1 screen), so this ability is largely theoretical. Meson screens are small and relatively cheap -- 90 tons at TL12; 30 tons at TL 13; 16 tons at TL 14. They are a very minor expense on 1000 ton+ ships.

And TL12- designs can't have meson gun bays.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Nevertheless, B2 is a dead end. Almost all designs published after 1980 cannot be built using B2.

 

[tbeard1999]

Nevertheless, B2 is a dead end. Almost all designs published after 1980 cannot be built using B2.

Well, Adventure 7 (1982) contained the Broadsword class mercenary ship, which was a Book 2 design (although it did have rules for retrofitting HG armor). Adventure 10 contained the Safari ship, which is a Book 2 design. Adventure 12 had Grandfather's ship, which couldn't be built with Book 2 or HG. Adventure 13 had a 600 ton subsidized liner, a Book 2 design. Double Adventure 5 had a 400 ton subsidized merchant, a Book 2 design. Double Adventure 6 had a far trader, also a Book 2 design.

It is interesting that you chose post-1980 for your break point. Supplement 7, containing eight starship deckplans, came out in 1980. At least six of those ships are Book 2 designs (the Gazelle and SDB may be HG designs, but it isn't explicitely stated).

Supplement 9 (1981) was an explicitely military supplement ("Fighting Ships") and most of its designs were HG designs. But since this supplement contained no deckplans and the roleplaying potential of 500 kton battleships is rather limited, I think that it's a bit of a stretch to weight this supplement more than the others noted above.

So, given the considerable evidence that GDW did not abandon Book 2 post 1980, I fail to see why Book 2 is somehow a "dead end", while "High Guard" is presumably not. In terms of roleplaying support, GDW appears to have used Book 2 well past 1980 for most of its ships.

 

[Plankowner]

The latest post on the Mongoose boards seems to indicate that MGT High Guard will be an EXPANSION of the basic (book2ish) rules rather than a replacement. It will add more options etc, but not replace the design system shown in the core book.

 

[Golan2072]

Finally got it today! I'm all excited!

 

[Andrew Boulton]

It's a dead end because it can only handle a subset of the canonical ships. For smallish, fairly basic ships, it does okay, but that's all. For anything else you need HG, MT, or FF&S.

I can't wait to see a drive potential table that can handle everything from a Launch to a Tigress...

 

[Golan2072]

It's a dead end because it can only handle a subset of the canonical ships. For smallish, fairly basic ships, it does okay, but that's all. For anything else you need HG, MT, or FF&S.

I can't wait to see a drive potential table that can handle everything from a Launch to a Tigress...

They'll release their own HG-variant in a month or two, and that would probably cover the Tigress as well

 

[Dr_Skull]

Amazon is shipping the pre-orders.

AT LAST

I'm going to get my book soon, and now I can wave the $8 plus Shipping charges that I saved in the face of all you suckers who paid full price and have had your books for a month or so.

 

[Jamus]

Just out of curiosity im asking but why would you ever need detailed rules for ship construction and combat involving capitol ships or ships in the 10kton + range? Is it common to have your adventurers in command of such a beast or are you just using the traveller rules for war gaming?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

For big ships, a simplified system is fine, but you have to ensure it gives the same result. It's easier to use the same system for everything, like FF&S1/2, MT, and even HG.

 

[tbeard1999]

For big ships, a simplified system is fine, but you have to ensure it gives the same result. It's easier to use the same system for everything, like FF&S1/2, MT, and even HG.

I agree with you on this, although I don't much care for gearhead fetishes like FF&S. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why GDW didn't replace the LBB2 starship design system with HG. If they wanted to preserve the LBB2 design sequence, they could have easily re-rated the A-Z drives with High Guard.

And ironically, HG had a much more RPG-friendly combat system (no need to setup a miniatures battle). I used it in most of my CT campaigns.