• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

IYTU - How do you describe --fill in the blank here--

"And the scouts definitely should not be navspec, but IISS Spec's..."

Specs? What are those? ;)

No, ships are built to navspec. Navy good at bureaucracy; Scouts bad at bureaucracy (Admin not in their skill tables). Besides, Scout Service doesn't have the budget to commission writing of a separate set of standards.
 
I would have the Scouts choose their ships by field testing every new design that comes out (within certain parameters) that could be adapted to scout service. The ones that prove themselves in the field, whether civilian design (+ extras) or navy, are the ones that are then bought in "bulk".
You may even end up with "borrowed" foreign/alien designs reverse engineered and used by the Scout service.
YMMV, of course ;)
 
Aramis wrote:

"And solid state cooking devices SCREAM in waves monitored by pre-stellar racces."


Mr. Aramis,

Huh? Let me see if I've got this right... I 'nuke' a bag of popcorn in the microwave aboard my Suleiman-class scout/courier in orbit above Arglebargle-IX and their pre-stellar sensors start screaming? Answer me this one; do the millions of micorwave ovens constantly in use around the world interfere with radio telescopes? Satellite comms? Cell phones? Radios recievers?

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

"I'm talking about a steam system with a few dozen L of total fill volume, all potentially potable pre-use, demand fed."

And I'm talking about the finicky maintenance such as system would require and the fact that even a 'few' liters of UHP steam can fill a surprisingly large compartment and smother you.

You also fail to realize that water rated as 'human potable' is not pure enough for steam systems. You'll have to purify the feed water for your UHP system beyond mere 'potable' standards and that will require even more equipment to maintain. Shall we throw in the chemical requirements of your steam generators too? How often is your engineer or pilot or steward going to test feed water, add chemicals, and perform 'bottom blows' to control sludge?

"For cleaning dishes, UHP steam is IDEAL stuff."

Yup, it is also ideal for amputations - but it is so costly to produce and handle safely that it isn't used for that purpose.

"But that's also for scouts. NOT for all ships."

I'd put it in ships that had large crews to do the necessary maintenance - if I put it a ship at all.

"Besides, a steam-line system is also great for ship's defense."

Sure, it would make a nifty GM-mandated gimmick in an adventure or three. I just won't make it standard equipment.

"And yes, I know about cutting brooms with steam line cracks."

If the the line is 'cracked' you're already dead or smothered. Those broom handle cutting leaks are pinholes; usually in faulty welds, and must be detected and repaired immediately lest they grow into pipe-rupturing, life-taking cracks.

"Put a controled valve at the door to engineering, with the switch remoted fromm the bridge and the engineer's seat... As I said, ships defense."

And if the leak is in engineering? As I said, a nice GM-inflicted gimmick to torture PCs with and definitely NOT standard equipment aboard any starship.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
Larsen, what part of "Demand fed" did you not understand?

Demand fed, in simple english: No pressure until there is demand. IE, dry when not in use. Simple to do.

And no, not the radio telescope crowd, either... scouts often, according to canonical sources, need to operate dirstside in steath mode. (See WBH.) Essentially, electronics off.

Microwaves are readily monitored; they are common comm frequencies. Sure, they're not part of SETI's search, but MANY other groups use them, including TV, radio, newspaper, internet, and telephone companies. I don't know about your world, but I do know that when there is a sudden change in microwave noise, the local TV stations take note... if this coincides with a UFO, someone's bound to look. I know that my neighbor's microwave interferes with a lot more than just the microwave spectrum, too. I suspect mine does, but the items I notice being affected are not ones I'm using when i use my microwave. Things like TV, 2m radio, etc, all pick up the vast ammounts of noise from microwaves, computers, etc. IMTU, soutships are set for nearly all contingencies. Including short periods totally powered down and using hand fed steam for cooking.

Likewise, the military supply mind is not prone to safety concerns (otherwise you'd have had a wholly different specialty). It is prone to using the lowest tech solution to a need available. To wit, a demand fed steam system for cooking. The steam powered oven need not even be open cycle... and unlike terrestrial naval steam useage, you can often hav a pressure-drop vent which will vent to space... and WILL flush the system to space when open.

Steam is very dangerous stuff for a certain pressure range or in large quantity. In the dishwasher, absolutely. A few L of steam is going to do little to a scout craft, slightly more to the occupants, which will be most likely shielded against the excess watrer for a number of LS based reasons, not the least of which is that we combine carbon-hydrogen compounds with oxygen to make CO2 and H2O in our bodies.

Steam heating is, in fact, so safe, that many army and airforce bases use HP steam for central heating of housing. (Elmendorf AFB does....) 700° steam at that. and that's at the quarters supply transfer, in an earthquake prone area.

Besides, unlike a microwave, it's got few moving parts, is field repairable, low-tech (TL4+ rather than 7+,) replaceable, and the cooking and cleaning media are essentially free to a ship with life forms of our ilk aboard, so the cost of water for the steam line are nil, and thus comparable. Plus, the steam line can use residual heat in the radiator systems, and/or the Power Plant core, so the power need not be on to use it.

Yes, if a steam line ruptures, it can be ugly. Microwaves are deadly to pacemaker patients. Hot air can be just as dangerous. (and has been proposed in the past by others.)
 
Aramis explained:

"Larsen, what part of "Demand fed" did you not understand?"


Mr. Aramis,

Quite a bit actually, but that is not the point here. Let us agree to disagree, this is an 'IMTU' topic anyway.

I cannot seemingly explain to you the impracticality of demand fed, ultra-high pressure, superheated steam lines within an enclosed spacecraft. And it doesn't matter one whit.

Instead, describe spacecraft in your manner for your games and I'll describe spacecraft in my manner for my games and we'll both have fun.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
Originally posted by Straybow:
"And the scouts definitely should not be navspec, but IISS Spec's..."

Specs? What are those? ;)

No, ships are built to navspec. Navy good at bureaucracy; Scouts bad at bureaucracy (Admin not in their skill tables). Besides, Scout Service doesn't have the budget to commission writing of a separate set of standards.
No admin on the scout tables? Check again in Bk 6, or in MT. Or T4. Or T5.
 
Don't have supplements, MT, T4, or T5.


Mr. Whipsnade, I think by "demand fed" he means that the lines are not pressurized when equipment is not in use. Water is injected into a heat exchanger and converted to steam, then the lines are evacuated after you're done cooking and cleaning.

Perhaps "Ultra High Pressure" isn't the right term for Aramis' idea, and hence the conflict. I agree that steam wouldn't really be a good way to do it. If nuclear vessels use steam it's only because the steam is already there in the power system. Traveller fusion probably does not use a steam cycle turbine, and adding a steam system is unnecessary complication.
 
My 20 millicreds on the Nav-Spec issue:

IMTU, Scouts use MUCH better stuff than the Navy: They have a much higher demand for portability and durability.
 
That would stand to reason, and define a clear line between intricate scientific instruments and gear, as opposed to mass-produced and burly military gear... nice way to simulate, Milord, well done!
 
Data and Information Media

In my current game, most data storage from TL 10 up (it's T20 and CT based game) is in the form of Data Storage Disks, affectionately known as "slugs" (with a tip of the Helmet to Judge Dredd/2000AD) They are 1 inch diameter steel disks, micro/nano inscribed with any form of data (text, Video, sound, multimedia combinations of these) Storage Capacity and Quality of Capture is dependednt upon TL and Equipment used... some types can even capture smells and touch stimuli responses, making it a truly sensorially encompassing media...

An Avionics bridge, in a baseline standpoint, is a simple bay with rack-mounted components, similar to a modern recording studio. Most instruments are uniform in size across TL 9-11, then at 12+ they get a LOT smaller in size. These units can be easily swapped out with parts from whatever the TRaveller equivalent of NAPA Auto Parts is... it all works the same way as audio, with the Primary control components being Input, Output, Utility, and Power. These Components are linked in a series (Input to Output, etc...) so that you can replace a unit without having to gut the whole bay...

Jumpspace IMTU is an area of space that is the Crossroads of all other Dimensions... An area of reality where energy and matter have no roles, and tacyons predominate... some scientists refer to it as "Nth Dimensional Space" It is inpercievable to the human mind, detrimentally so... a human person looking into it would go mad from the multidimensional assaultive sensory overload, as the Human mind is unable to process what it is seeing, and it sort of acts like a Hard Drive with too much stuff on it, only more crazy...

If we're talking about special effects usage and representation, It looks sort of "Jack Kirby" ish, mostly an endless and unchartable yellow/golden void, with many black "spheres" these "Spheres" are Jump Drives in use, with each sphere representing the jumping ship's "universe" that travels with it through this strange area... There may or may not be "life" of a fashion there, but it would be incredibly alien (being "made" only of Tachyons), and unable to exist in or affect normal space at all...

omega.gif
 
IMTU, data storage is usually about TL 9 for most applications intended for off-world use, with higher tech stuff available. Most people are using essentially either Smartmedia or SD card type stuff... it's small enough for most uses, large enough to label (barely) and holds enough for common daily data useages. The TL 10 versions hold considerably more, but...

Then agian, IMTU, the 3I has a "Data Standards Manual" for computing technologies... many worlds will build stuff to the standard just for export compatability.

This export compatability means the ability to sell to the 3I, as well. Literally, nothing not meeting the specs will be purchased by the 3I or its agencies.

So, the TL 9 interface is supported for TL 9-10 devices by requirement, and is (for small short term media formats) physical connector memory cards. long term media are variants of optical data: CD/DVD tech. 5, 10, 15, and 20 cm standards, in about a 3 formats. TL 11-13 begins to use optical crystals, multi-gig stuff, on the "Av Stellar" interface for the readers. TL 14-15 uses a third connector standard, for very high speed large volume data throughput. The Holocrystal is a standard; an extruded trapezoid of media in standard sizes.

There is a single standards for the "Imperial Virtual Machine", as well. Some computers emulate it, others actually are built to it. It's essentially a set of references for what a "Model X" must do computationally, and a standardized RISC instruction set. Unfortunately, this also mmeans it is easier to hack.
 
I think jump space would be confusing if there were anything to look at&#133 but there really isn't. Stars are just dots; not much in themselves.
 
large enough to label (barely)
That's something people often ignore - your chips/holocrystals/etc have to be large enough to easily handle and label. 20x50x2mm is probably about the minimum practical size.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> large enough to label (barely)
That's something people often ignore - your chips/holocrystals/etc have to be large enough to easily handle and label. 20x50x2mm is probably about the minimum practical size. </font>[/QUOTE]I am using the datacrystal concept derived from the holocrystals for portable data storage. I think I remember reading about datacrystals in a Traveller's Digest and believe they are in Megatraveller as well.

The size idea if interesting if players start to get picky about size and how big and whatever. Very nice.

_
 
Back
Top