Jack-O-Trades and Zero-Level Skills

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Funny how everyone thinks hi-SOC will get vehicle skills... Most hi-SOC folks in our day and age don't drive at all, and many don't even know how. That's what money is for: to hire drivers.

Amen to that Fritz. Preaching to the choir here.

I also have a problem with the assumption that everybody and their dog will have VaccSuit skill just because they live on some vacumm world. It's far more likely, if it's high tech, that they will never need one. Their whole life will be spent inside a giant artificial biosphere and they'll never see the surface in all it's danger.

In fact I don't believe in automatic skills at all except in the case of a "natural" and even then you don't know you are until you try so that's more like a plus 1 to the skill level when first taken.

Heck, I don't even like the everybody has 0-level in every weapon. Nor that Jack of Trades is an automatic 0-level in every non-weapon skill.

But on the flip side the rule that no matter the level of Jack of Trades you only have 0-level strikes me as unfair too. Any extra rolls of it (and I had a Scout who rolled it four times once) are a waste.

My solutions for the above...

First a skill in a weapon class (i.e. Gun Combat or Blade Combat) grants you 0-level skill in all other weapons of that class. For example...

A: If I go through my career and never gain a 1-level in any weapon class I'm almost useless with any weapon (-4 to hit).

B: However let's say I roll Gun Combat and choose SMG-1. I get +1 with my bullet hose and am 0-level with all guns. I know how to use them without penalty. But I still have a hard time with pointy things (no Blade Combat skill) and trying to stab someone with a knife is nearly pointless (-4 to hit).

EDIT - frak, i punned again and didn't see it till I posted, at least it's not too bad, right?

Second Jack of Trades grants a +1 per level to offset the usual -4 penalty for being unskilled. So Jack of Trades-4 is like 0-level in all non-weapon skills. Jack of Trades-5 is like 1-level in all non-weapon skills. And so on.

Finally my "natural" rule of thumb is to roll 2D6 when a skill is first gained. A 12 indicates the person is natually gifted and gains an extra level in that skill immediately. Only one "natural" talent per person.

Originally posted by Fritz88:
2-4601, I think you have the right idea, but I'm not sure you have a good plan, yet. Keep poking at it.

I'll second that, bouncing ideas around is always good

Of course everyone will have an opinion and in the end the only one that matters for your game is your own.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Funny how everyone thinks hi-SOC will get vehicle skills... Most hi-SOC folks in our day and age don't drive at all, and many don't even know how. That's what money is for: to hire drivers.

Amen to that Fritz. Preaching to the choir here.

I also have a problem with the assumption that everybody and their dog will have VaccSuit skill just because they live on some vacumm world. It's far more likely, if it's high tech, that they will never need one. Their whole life will be spent inside a giant artificial biosphere and they'll never see the surface in all it's danger.

In fact I don't believe in automatic skills at all except in the case of a "natural" and even then you don't know you are until you try so that's more like a plus 1 to the skill level when first taken.

Heck, I don't even like the everybody has 0-level in every weapon. Nor that Jack of Trades is an automatic 0-level in every non-weapon skill.

But on the flip side the rule that no matter the level of Jack of Trades you only have 0-level strikes me as unfair too. Any extra rolls of it (and I had a Scout who rolled it four times once) are a waste.

My solutions for the above...

First a skill in a weapon class (i.e. Gun Combat or Blade Combat) grants you 0-level skill in all other weapons of that class. For example...

A: If I go through my career and never gain a 1-level in any weapon class I'm almost useless with any weapon (-4 to hit).

B: However let's say I roll Gun Combat and choose SMG-1. I get +1 with my bullet hose and am 0-level with all guns. I know how to use them without penalty. But I still have a hard time with pointy things (no Blade Combat skill) and trying to stab someone with a knife is nearly pointless (-4 to hit).

EDIT - frak, i punned again and didn't see it till I posted, at least it's not too bad, right?

Second Jack of Trades grants a +1 per level to offset the usual -4 penalty for being unskilled. So Jack of Trades-4 is like 0-level in all non-weapon skills. Jack of Trades-5 is like 1-level in all non-weapon skills. And so on.

Finally my "natural" rule of thumb is to roll 2D6 when a skill is first gained. A 12 indicates the person is natually gifted and gains an extra level in that skill immediately. Only one "natural" talent per person.

Originally posted by Fritz88:
2-4601, I think you have the right idea, but I'm not sure you have a good plan, yet. Keep poking at it.

I'll second that, bouncing ideas around is always good

Of course everyone will have an opinion and in the end the only one that matters for your game is your own.

 

[Ranger]

Well, I think there is a clear logic behind high Soc giving you transportation skills. Though it is true that many high Soc individuals do not drive themselves (or rode in carrages in the pre-industrial period) on a daily basis. Horses and Cars have been favored toys of the rich and famous. Given that the skill level we are talking about is 0, I think higher Soc gives a higher probability of access to learning the basics of driving a car or riding a horse than a lower Soc individual. It doesn't say they do it a lot, just that they have a higher probability of learning how to do it before age 18.

As to the Vacc Suit thing. I think any community on a Atmo 0 rock is going to be prepared for a failure. Part of that preperation would making sure every person over a specific age could quickly put on a Vacc Suit and get to an emergency shelter until the situation was corrected. At level 0 this skill is not enough training to actually be productive in a Vacc Suit, but enough knowledge to survive in an emergancy.

Just my take on things...

 

[Ranger]

Well, I think there is a clear logic behind high Soc giving you transportation skills. Though it is true that many high Soc individuals do not drive themselves (or rode in carrages in the pre-industrial period) on a daily basis. Horses and Cars have been favored toys of the rich and famous. Given that the skill level we are talking about is 0, I think higher Soc gives a higher probability of access to learning the basics of driving a car or riding a horse than a lower Soc individual. It doesn't say they do it a lot, just that they have a higher probability of learning how to do it before age 18.

As to the Vacc Suit thing. I think any community on a Atmo 0 rock is going to be prepared for a failure. Part of that preperation would making sure every person over a specific age could quickly put on a Vacc Suit and get to an emergency shelter until the situation was corrected. At level 0 this skill is not enough training to actually be productive in a Vacc Suit, but enough knowledge to survive in an emergancy.

Just my take on things...

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Ranger:
Well, I think there is a clear logic behind high Soc giving you transportation skills. Though it is true that many high Soc individuals do not drive themselves (or rode in carrages in the pre-industrial period) on a daily basis. Horses and Cars have been favored toys of the rich and famous.

I'd say favored toys of some of the rich and famous. When automobiles were first introduced they were the realm of the rich, and few of them even then...

"Mucking about with a dirty combustion engine and travelling faster than God intended? How very eccentric of you Lord Bottom. Come now, put down those labourers tools and clean that grease off you and join me for (drinks in the lounge/a game of cards in the parlour/a trip to the track to watch the hounds race/a little lawn tennis/a stroll through the gardens to see my new rose/etc. etc...).

There are a lot of other "pursuits" I can see high Soc having 0-level skill in. I don't think any of them should be automatic or even granted a chance.

But before long the automobile WAS the tool of the massess thanks to a gent name of Henry Ford. In short time nearly every farm kid in America knew not just how to drive but how to fix the thing with a bit of bailing wire.

So I can see the same thing with each level of "new" transport. First adopters will be the rich (high Soc) but before long it will be the masses (low to mid Soc) who know how and use them while the rich go on to new distractions.

Of course there are other considerations besides high Soc. Does the homeworld even allow driving? Maybe the planetary conditions are not conducive to it. Or maybe the government is too totalitarian to allow it. Or maybe the TL is such that all transportation is fully automated. Or...

Nope, automatic skills, 0-level or better, are best handled if you have to have them by just letting the player pick them and make them fit the character's background. Granting them, or a chance at them, based on just one characteristic is over simplified.

Originally posted by Ranger:

As to the Vacc Suit thing. I think any community on a Atmo 0 rock is going to be prepared for a failure. Part of that preperation would making sure every person over a specific age could quickly put on a Vacc Suit and get to an emergency shelter until the situation was corrected. At level 0 this skill is not enough training to actually be productive in a Vacc Suit, but enough knowledge to survive in an emergancy.

Just like any community on a fault line is going to be prepared for earthquakes? Or low coastal areas are prepared for storm flooding and tsunamis? Or flood plains for high water? Does everyone in a quake zone know what to do when the ground shakes? Even that is a far sight less prepared than the VaccSuit idea. Does everyone in a coastal area know how to swim and have a life vest and boat at hand for emergencies? That's more like the equivalent. They don't because there is a perception of safety that negates an urgeant need to prepare. You see the same thing with people in tornado alley. No shelters, no emergency supplies, not even a plan in most cases. The storm prediction comes and it's a mad rush to the store to buy plywood for the windows (what happened to past years sheets?) and water and batteries and such (from shelves that are mysteriously stripped nearly bare by the ones who got there early). Or they try to evacuate at the last minute only to run into a traffic jam of all the other last minute departees.

Nope, the most likely thing to happen with a community living on an airless rock is that each home will have a hard room. In the case of the unthinkable and the biosphere is compromised everyone will run to the nearest shelter. It'll be quicker and safer than trying to fumble into a VaccSuit. Those who are a little paranoid or just like to be prepared will have a survival bubble handy under the seat of their personal transport or at their desk in case they are far from a shelter. Only the moderately paranoid will have a VaccSuit and skill unless they are part of an emergency preparedness team. And only the clinically paranoid will actually be wearing a VaccSuit all the time just in case. Of course that is most player characters in my experience so maybe the idea of granting them the skill isn't so bad, but all their sane neighbours and friends won't have the skill and will think the character a bit odd. Not that they'll say so to their face since they also have this unhealthy fascination with weapons of any kind

Originally posted by Ranger:
Just my take on things...

Which of course goes double for me

And that makes it all correct for our respective TUs

There are no wrong answers, just different correct ones.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Ranger:
Well, I think there is a clear logic behind high Soc giving you transportation skills. Though it is true that many high Soc individuals do not drive themselves (or rode in carrages in the pre-industrial period) on a daily basis. Horses and Cars have been favored toys of the rich and famous.

I'd say favored toys of some of the rich and famous. When automobiles were first introduced they were the realm of the rich, and few of them even then...

"Mucking about with a dirty combustion engine and travelling faster than God intended? How very eccentric of you Lord Bottom. Come now, put down those labourers tools and clean that grease off you and join me for (drinks in the lounge/a game of cards in the parlour/a trip to the track to watch the hounds race/a little lawn tennis/a stroll through the gardens to see my new rose/etc. etc...).

There are a lot of other "pursuits" I can see high Soc having 0-level skill in. I don't think any of them should be automatic or even granted a chance.

But before long the automobile WAS the tool of the massess thanks to a gent name of Henry Ford. In short time nearly every farm kid in America knew not just how to drive but how to fix the thing with a bit of bailing wire.

So I can see the same thing with each level of "new" transport. First adopters will be the rich (high Soc) but before long it will be the masses (low to mid Soc) who know how and use them while the rich go on to new distractions.

Of course there are other considerations besides high Soc. Does the homeworld even allow driving? Maybe the planetary conditions are not conducive to it. Or maybe the government is too totalitarian to allow it. Or maybe the TL is such that all transportation is fully automated. Or...

Nope, automatic skills, 0-level or better, are best handled if you have to have them by just letting the player pick them and make them fit the character's background. Granting them, or a chance at them, based on just one characteristic is over simplified.

Originally posted by Ranger:

As to the Vacc Suit thing. I think any community on a Atmo 0 rock is going to be prepared for a failure. Part of that preperation would making sure every person over a specific age could quickly put on a Vacc Suit and get to an emergency shelter until the situation was corrected. At level 0 this skill is not enough training to actually be productive in a Vacc Suit, but enough knowledge to survive in an emergancy.

Just like any community on a fault line is going to be prepared for earthquakes? Or low coastal areas are prepared for storm flooding and tsunamis? Or flood plains for high water? Does everyone in a quake zone know what to do when the ground shakes? Even that is a far sight less prepared than the VaccSuit idea. Does everyone in a coastal area know how to swim and have a life vest and boat at hand for emergencies? That's more like the equivalent. They don't because there is a perception of safety that negates an urgeant need to prepare. You see the same thing with people in tornado alley. No shelters, no emergency supplies, not even a plan in most cases. The storm prediction comes and it's a mad rush to the store to buy plywood for the windows (what happened to past years sheets?) and water and batteries and such (from shelves that are mysteriously stripped nearly bare by the ones who got there early). Or they try to evacuate at the last minute only to run into a traffic jam of all the other last minute departees.

Nope, the most likely thing to happen with a community living on an airless rock is that each home will have a hard room. In the case of the unthinkable and the biosphere is compromised everyone will run to the nearest shelter. It'll be quicker and safer than trying to fumble into a VaccSuit. Those who are a little paranoid or just like to be prepared will have a survival bubble handy under the seat of their personal transport or at their desk in case they are far from a shelter. Only the moderately paranoid will have a VaccSuit and skill unless they are part of an emergency preparedness team. And only the clinically paranoid will actually be wearing a VaccSuit all the time just in case. Of course that is most player characters in my experience so maybe the idea of granting them the skill isn't so bad, but all their sane neighbours and friends won't have the skill and will think the character a bit odd. Not that they'll say so to their face since they also have this unhealthy fascination with weapons of any kind

Originally posted by Ranger:
Just my take on things...

Which of course goes double for me

And that makes it all correct for our respective TUs

There are no wrong answers, just different correct ones.