Jump-Gates
- Thread starter manley_t
- Start date
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
----------------------------------------
yer welcome!
at yer service, sir!
heretically,
The biggest problem with Jump Gates is the question of power. Even if one uses Antimatter, there would be constant need for recharging, Solar Power jump gates would take inordinate amounts of time to charge, of course there is also the danger of them falling into the nearby star after a few thousand years (working on the assumption that Jump Gates are Ancient artifacts).
I have never managed to resolve the above to my satifaction in my Fading Suns, simply stating the Ancients had the power to harness black holes and the null space inbetween usually pacifies the players.
In my Traveller campaign, however, it the Ancients who have managed to create artificial wormholes (the true reason for many misjumps) these are unstable points at the out edge of many systems where micro black holes reside from collapsed matter, the Ancients managed to widen their appeture and create wormholes, naturally, they also developed strong enough hulls to withstand the journey, something the Third Imperium has been on the verge of doing, but then the Rebellion put more money into weapons research... So it the stray ship which gets thrown into these corridors and ping bonged into another region of space.
I have never managed to resolve the above to my satifaction in my Fading Suns, simply stating the Ancients had the power to harness black holes and the null space inbetween usually pacifies the players.
In my Traveller campaign, however, it the Ancients who have managed to create artificial wormholes (the true reason for many misjumps) these are unstable points at the out edge of many systems where micro black holes reside from collapsed matter, the Ancients managed to widen their appeture and create wormholes, naturally, they also developed strong enough hulls to withstand the journey, something the Third Imperium has been on the verge of doing, but then the Rebellion put more money into weapons research... So it the stray ship which gets thrown into these corridors and ping bonged into another region of space.
I raised this issue on this very site last year (its probably still about if you look)- the general conclusion was that in canon (mainly via DGP's Starship Operator's Manual) jump mechanics need a constant field to keep the ship in J space. This therefore needs constant power to maintain, thus no jump gates.
Jump gates would act as great big catapults but what happens once the ship enters - how does it get out?
Jump gates would act as great big catapults but what happens once the ship enters - how does it get out?
This could quite easily be resolved. There are two aspects to the Jump Engine and the power requirements. 80% of the fuel is needed to charge the jump grid and punch a hole into jump space (this is an exact para-phrase approximating what the T20 rulebook says).
So, using this 80/20 rule we can surmise that were we to externalize the jump drive we could only externalize the 80 part and still must have a part of the drive internal.
Instead of a Jump Drive this would have to be a Jump Capacitor and would have weight and fuel requirements 20% of what is listed.
This type of drive is designed to work specifically with Jump Gates and must still be built according to the maximum Jump it will have to maintain. Given the variance in fuel use and jump duration the Imperial Research Designers overcompensated on the side of safety and constructed units that were 25% in size of the original jump engine with 30% of the fuel capacity.
LingStandard in it's commercial genius, built Capacitor Pods that were size rated in the whole (100T, 200T, 300T, etc) and can be sold at the Jump Gate for the duration of the trip. These Pods are automated and operated via remote connection by the Jump Gate Operators. Once the jump is finished the Pods can be detached or jettisoned as needed.
For trips from and to system that both have jump gates the Pods can be rented and returned once the ship re-enters normal space.
In this manner even small craft can jump by attaching to the 100T Jump Capacitor Pod.
Cryo-Standard Enterprises, not wanting to be left out in the grand new scheme of interstellar travel, prodcued a Capacitor Sled. This sled comes in three sizes, 250T, 500T and 1,000T. They can have any variety of small craft (100T limit) attach to it. Once it's full the entire sled can travel through jump-space.
Critics of this say that it's no different than a tender or a ferry. They also complain that Cryo-Standard, an upstart producer of small craft and fighters, have created a device designed to only be used with their product. Their spokesman counters that any form and type of smallcraft can be clasped to the sled and that all complaints are just an effort to thwart honest competition.
.....
So, using this 80/20 rule we can surmise that were we to externalize the jump drive we could only externalize the 80 part and still must have a part of the drive internal.
Instead of a Jump Drive this would have to be a Jump Capacitor and would have weight and fuel requirements 20% of what is listed.
This type of drive is designed to work specifically with Jump Gates and must still be built according to the maximum Jump it will have to maintain. Given the variance in fuel use and jump duration the Imperial Research Designers overcompensated on the side of safety and constructed units that were 25% in size of the original jump engine with 30% of the fuel capacity.
LingStandard in it's commercial genius, built Capacitor Pods that were size rated in the whole (100T, 200T, 300T, etc) and can be sold at the Jump Gate for the duration of the trip. These Pods are automated and operated via remote connection by the Jump Gate Operators. Once the jump is finished the Pods can be detached or jettisoned as needed.
For trips from and to system that both have jump gates the Pods can be rented and returned once the ship re-enters normal space.
In this manner even small craft can jump by attaching to the 100T Jump Capacitor Pod.
Cryo-Standard Enterprises, not wanting to be left out in the grand new scheme of interstellar travel, prodcued a Capacitor Sled. This sled comes in three sizes, 250T, 500T and 1,000T. They can have any variety of small craft (100T limit) attach to it. Once it's full the entire sled can travel through jump-space.
Critics of this say that it's no different than a tender or a ferry. They also complain that Cryo-Standard, an upstart producer of small craft and fighters, have created a device designed to only be used with their product. Their spokesman counters that any form and type of smallcraft can be clasped to the sled and that all complaints are just an effort to thwart honest competition.
.....
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
________________________________________________
Aye, and the receiving Jump ring is the target (shoot a basketball thru two hoops.). This is what is postulated & explained in "Alternate technologies, FF&S. Ala Stargate SG-1.
Send & receive. The journey takes minutes (imtu) per paarsec plumbed. (If ya want I can reproduce the chart)!
Like I said in my earlier postulate, and Big Tim said later. 80%/20% The fist 80% of the energy is spent to get the ship into jumpspace the remaining 20% is to maintain the protective bubble of normal space around the ship for the 1 week it's there.
This means in theory a ship could be pushed into jumpspace by a gate, or even just a booster stage, the the engines on the ship would generate the bubble around the ship while it is in jumpspace, or possible before it entered jumpspace the bubble would be generated and then the ship would be pushed into jumpspace. It could either a} fall back into normal space on it's own or b} be caught on the far end by another gate, though option b seems less likely because the other gate would have to act on an object in jumpspace, It has been my impression that this is not possible.
Of course there would be problems, syncronizing two seperate jumpfield generators, and compensating for the mass of the gate. There would most likely be a loss of effency {as Big Tim points out} making the ship spend something like {maybe} 30% of the required energy, and the gate spend 90%. A less effecent process, but with benifits. A ship could be made to jump, yet still retain most of it's feul. I especially like Big Tim's idea of jump modules sold at the point of jump in different sizes and powers and put on a ship. ANY ship is now interstellar.
I don't think this is alternate tech, the ships still take just as long to get there, they still travel the same route, they just spend a little less of their feul, arrive with there tanks a little fuller, and can perform more hops. If a jump-6 ship had enough feul before for 2 jumps on 1 fill it could make 48 parsecs in 11 weeks assuming blind jumps a the arival point and 1 week every other jump to refuel. A gatejump-6 ship could make it the same distance in 8 weeks with only 1 fillup before departure, and 6 "tolls" along the way.
well i think i've rambled enough
This means in theory a ship could be pushed into jumpspace by a gate, or even just a booster stage, the the engines on the ship would generate the bubble around the ship while it is in jumpspace, or possible before it entered jumpspace the bubble would be generated and then the ship would be pushed into jumpspace. It could either a} fall back into normal space on it's own or b} be caught on the far end by another gate, though option b seems less likely because the other gate would have to act on an object in jumpspace, It has been my impression that this is not possible.
Of course there would be problems, syncronizing two seperate jumpfield generators, and compensating for the mass of the gate. There would most likely be a loss of effency {as Big Tim points out} making the ship spend something like {maybe} 30% of the required energy, and the gate spend 90%. A less effecent process, but with benifits. A ship could be made to jump, yet still retain most of it's feul. I especially like Big Tim's idea of jump modules sold at the point of jump in different sizes and powers and put on a ship. ANY ship is now interstellar.
I don't think this is alternate tech, the ships still take just as long to get there, they still travel the same route, they just spend a little less of their feul, arrive with there tanks a little fuller, and can perform more hops. If a jump-6 ship had enough feul before for 2 jumps on 1 fill it could make 48 parsecs in 11 weeks assuming blind jumps a the arival point and 1 week every other jump to refuel. A gatejump-6 ship could make it the same distance in 8 weeks with only 1 fillup before departure, and 6 "tolls" along the way.
well i think i've rambled enough
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Post 1701...
Lots of Good stuff Tim, Spank!
For kafa47 the skeptical...
there is a trade off in technology level/ distance plumbed by the paired gates, and the size of tarffic they can handle...
From FF&S, pp44-45:
Summary
GOE: Gate Opening Energy= Mj per disp.ton
GSP: Gate Sustaining Power= MW divided by parsec end point
Gate Capacity: In displacement tons
Gate Volume: Gate Capacity x 1
Gate Mass: Gate capacity (in dtons) x 14
Gate Price: gate volume multiplied by the cost constant. Varies from .001Mcr per dton to 1Mcr per dton
Machinery for the stargate is equal to the tonnage to be transferred (Thus 1,000 dtns of Stargate to move a 1kton ship)TL-10 thru 13. AT TL-14 higher tech efficiency kicks in...and the size of the machinery gets smaller incrementally. IMTU, I made this an arbitrary 20kton limit left by the Ancients (and their gates were TL-18-20), or 60% to 50% of TL-10/13 sized reproductions attempted by the Geonee (12ktn-15ktn displacement tons of stargate).
TL EPL GOE GSP Vol
10 6 20 100 1
11 7 18 100 1
12 8 16 100 1
13 9 14 100 1
14 10 12 100 .9
15 12 10 100 .8
16 15 9 100 .7
18 20 8 100 .6
20 25 7 100 .5
21 30 6 100 .4
Tim is correct, they do have capacitors/ homopolar generators, set near a Star for constant power gathering (TL-18-20 Solar collectors are immensely more efficient and smaller than those we see at their beginning in TL-7 here on Terra/Sol.
Most of the "hard details" (those crunchy bits!)
Are left to the referee/GM to detail. But the HPG capacitor banks internally stored, do have to recharge. Another detail fer GMs to figure out between uses.
In a campaign use, one could see one of these paired up to cross say a large stellar reft (BTC?)
Or to connect former Ancient races sites...!
Lots of Good stuff Tim, Spank!
For kafa47 the skeptical...
there is a trade off in technology level/ distance plumbed by the paired gates, and the size of tarffic they can handle...
From FF&S, pp44-45:
Summary
GOE: Gate Opening Energy= Mj per disp.ton
GSP: Gate Sustaining Power= MW divided by parsec end point
Gate Capacity: In displacement tons
Gate Volume: Gate Capacity x 1
Gate Mass: Gate capacity (in dtons) x 14
Gate Price: gate volume multiplied by the cost constant. Varies from .001Mcr per dton to 1Mcr per dton
Machinery for the stargate is equal to the tonnage to be transferred (Thus 1,000 dtns of Stargate to move a 1kton ship)TL-10 thru 13. AT TL-14 higher tech efficiency kicks in...and the size of the machinery gets smaller incrementally. IMTU, I made this an arbitrary 20kton limit left by the Ancients (and their gates were TL-18-20), or 60% to 50% of TL-10/13 sized reproductions attempted by the Geonee (12ktn-15ktn displacement tons of stargate).
TL EPL GOE GSP Vol
10 6 20 100 1
11 7 18 100 1
12 8 16 100 1
13 9 14 100 1
14 10 12 100 .9
15 12 10 100 .8
16 15 9 100 .7
18 20 8 100 .6
20 25 7 100 .5
21 30 6 100 .4
Tim is correct, they do have capacitors/ homopolar generators, set near a Star for constant power gathering (TL-18-20 Solar collectors are immensely more efficient and smaller than those we see at their beginning in TL-7 here on Terra/Sol.
Most of the "hard details" (those crunchy bits!)
Are left to the referee/GM to detail. But the HPG capacitor banks internally stored, do have to recharge. Another detail fer GMs to figure out between uses.
In a campaign use, one could see one of these paired up to cross say a large stellar reft (BTC?)
Or to connect former Ancient races sites...!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Dernit..killed another thread... 
yaskoydray
SOC-7
Hi folks!
Jump gates are a concept I've toyed with too... I think for me a renewed interest stems from the depiction of gate tech in Babylon 5
I poked around the link cited a number of posts above--very nice--but I was wondering: can anyone offer a list a links on the subject? (Pretty please... )
There are a number of things that come to my mind (I'm sorry I don't have FF&S or any fan stuff
) that are worth asking:
Assuming one wishes to insert jump gate tech into your Traveller game...
1) Do you need a gate at both ends of the jump?
2) Do you set a size limit? Perhaps based on tech level? (The
's in the details--but the general concept needs to be clarified first I think.)
3) Are there time and/or distance advantages to jump gate travel vs regular jumps? And to what degree?
4) Jump gate security; wouldn't such a device foster concern over its safe and secure use? Wouldn't jump gates need naval protection? (Lots of fodder for military/political/strategic campaigns I think!)
5) I like the 80/20 "formula"--but does this mean just a regular jump vessel benefits from the 80% savings to fuel consumption? Or only specifically designed vessels use the gates? Or both?
6) And a wilder tangent: are the gates designed by high tech worlds a primitive precursor to stuff the Ancients had? (This assumes current gates are primitive while ancient more powerful gates lurk in obscure locations in space...) Or are the gates purely Ancient tech (which removes some of the tech calculations in favour of some simpler referee "handwaving")?
Something like this can really change the setting for your campaign rather dramatically if one's not careful...
Just my 2 imperial cents
Cheers,
That Yas Dude.
Jump gates are a concept I've toyed with too... I think for me a renewed interest stems from the depiction of gate tech in Babylon 5
I poked around the link cited a number of posts above--very nice--but I was wondering: can anyone offer a list a links on the subject? (Pretty please...
)There are a number of things that come to my mind (I'm sorry I don't have FF&S or any fan stuff
) that are worth asking:Assuming one wishes to insert jump gate tech into your Traveller game...
1) Do you need a gate at both ends of the jump?
2) Do you set a size limit? Perhaps based on tech level? (The
3) Are there time and/or distance advantages to jump gate travel vs regular jumps? And to what degree?
4) Jump gate security; wouldn't such a device foster concern over its safe and secure use? Wouldn't jump gates need naval protection? (Lots of fodder for military/political/strategic campaigns I think!)
5) I like the 80/20 "formula"--but does this mean just a regular jump vessel benefits from the 80% savings to fuel consumption? Or only specifically designed vessels use the gates? Or both?
6) And a wilder tangent: are the gates designed by high tech worlds a primitive precursor to stuff the Ancients had? (This assumes current gates are primitive while ancient more powerful gates lurk in obscure locations in space...) Or are the gates purely Ancient tech (which removes some of the tech calculations in favour of some simpler referee "handwaving")?
Something like this can really change the setting for your campaign rather dramatically if one's not careful...
Just my 2 imperial cents
Cheers,
That Yas Dude.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
__________________________________________________Originally posted by Yaskoydray:
Hi folks!
Assuming one wishes to insert jump gate tech into your Traveller game...
1) Do you need a gate at both ends of the jump?
2) Do you set a size limit? Perhaps based on tech level? (The's in the details--but the general concept needs to be clarified first I think.)
3) Are there time and/or distance advantages to jump gate travel vs regular jumps? And to what degree?
4) Jump gate security; wouldn't such a device foster concern over its safe and secure use? Wouldn't jump gates need naval protection? (Lots of fodder for military/political/strategic campaigns I think!)
5) I like the 80/20 "formula"--but does this mean just a regular jump vessel benefits from the 80% savings to fuel consumption? Or only specifically designed vessels use the gates? Or both?
6) And a wilder tangent: are the gates designed by high tech worlds a primitive precursor to stuff the Ancients had? (This assumes current gates are primitive while ancient more powerful gates lurk in obscure locations in space...) Or are the gates purely Ancient tech (which removes some of the tech calculations in favour of some simpler referee "handwaving")?
1)***Unless you use Weber verse naturally occurring wormholes, yes Imho. Even B5 does this.
2)See my above postings. (yes). Tech defines parsecs plumbed. Size and cost reflects what the system/ polity/ pocket empire is willing to spend.
3)yes, parsecs plumbed = minutes!(so a seven parsec TL-10 gate takes seven minutes end to end). IYTU, you can alter that, of course. to say, 10 minutes/parsec; 1hr/parsec/ whatever. Its an altenate to Jump technology. Even at a thirty parsec leap( at say..30hrs) thats shorter than the 6.5 days of J-space! Revenues raised by traffic help maintain the gates/ and are $$$ in the powers that be running/ holding them.
4)I should say so. B-5 guarded her end. Weber's universe has Manticoran navy bases and Manty-SPA monitoring traffic/ security etc, collecting passage fees.
5) was someone elses idea. I''ll let them answr that (tho its a good one)!
6)IMTU, the Geonee inspired gates were copied from Ancient Tech. Their Gates are limited in size. They had figured out to do the same thing, retro active engineering wise-it was just bigger (ie, 20ktn gate machinery to do what TL-20 did at 10ktns).
So when they repaired the non working gate at their end in massilia-they made it larger than it had been, as they had at best, some TL-16 remnant stuff to work with, and TL-12 from the main world of Shiwonee.
In the time versus distance thing. yes, it allows for NJ ships to "travel" as we call it in traveller..but:
Only on the proscribed routes of paired gates!
A jump shuttle/ pod/ frame is still utilized for any other off gate travel..
my .000000125Mcr. worth grandfather Y
Jim Richmond
SOC-2
Some thoughts on Jumpgates. Please chime in with your thoughts.
1. One or two gates?
Perhaps both. Consider the idea that travel is about as safe as or safer than normal when using both a departure and destination gate, but allowing just a departure gate with increased risk of a misjump.
In the case of using two gates the technology safely gets around the hazard of the departure gate acting as a nearby hazard (such as that caused by drop tanks only worse due to the shear size of the gate itself and should be different depending on tech level).
With just one gate perhaps the added risk should increase by one for every tech level below 21 the gate technology is using with TL10 perhaps being the lowest level to potentially have gate technology.
2. Time/Distance of gate assisted travel?
With use of two gates perhaps it cuts travel down to hours/parsec instead of a week, but using just a single gate the time would remain the same.
3. Jump Rating of the gate?
Does the Jump Rating of the gate factor into time, distance, or both? Since Jump rating works for distance with a ship under its own operation, perhaps that model should be kept with gate jump rating ... it allows greater distances in the same time span.
1. One or two gates?
Perhaps both. Consider the idea that travel is about as safe as or safer than normal when using both a departure and destination gate, but allowing just a departure gate with increased risk of a misjump.
In the case of using two gates the technology safely gets around the hazard of the departure gate acting as a nearby hazard (such as that caused by drop tanks only worse due to the shear size of the gate itself and should be different depending on tech level).
With just one gate perhaps the added risk should increase by one for every tech level below 21 the gate technology is using with TL10 perhaps being the lowest level to potentially have gate technology.
2. Time/Distance of gate assisted travel?
With use of two gates perhaps it cuts travel down to hours/parsec instead of a week, but using just a single gate the time would remain the same.
3. Jump Rating of the gate?
Does the Jump Rating of the gate factor into time, distance, or both? Since Jump rating works for distance with a ship under its own operation, perhaps that model should be kept with gate jump rating ... it allows greater distances in the same time span.
Actually, Jump gates are already in Traveller, but as mentioned earlier, they are Ancient technology. For some info, read Secrets of the Ancients.
Also, CT's High Guard used to have a TL18 (i think) weapon called a Jump Projector, which forced targetted ships into Jumpspace on a deliberate misjump.
I've been toying with the thought that at TL17 or TL18, we should be able to see the creation of a jump field without the need for a physical grid to support it. (Else, how would Jump Projectors work?)
If that's the case, then we get off into another topic: If you can create a jump field without a grid, then you are no longer limited to a minimum hull size. The field would still encompass 100 dtons of space, but the vessel inside could potentially be much smaller.
Back to our subject: the Jump Projector is a great example of an outside force applying a jump field to an object, just like Jump Gates would have to do. It also implies that only a sending Gate would be necessary. (Of course, you'd need one on the other side to get back.) Making them at TL18 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for the milieu, and that TL is so rare as to be limited to Referee intervention.
Just some food for thought,
Flynn
Also, CT's High Guard used to have a TL18 (i think) weapon called a Jump Projector, which forced targetted ships into Jumpspace on a deliberate misjump.
I've been toying with the thought that at TL17 or TL18, we should be able to see the creation of a jump field without the need for a physical grid to support it. (Else, how would Jump Projectors work?)
If that's the case, then we get off into another topic: If you can create a jump field without a grid, then you are no longer limited to a minimum hull size. The field would still encompass 100 dtons of space, but the vessel inside could potentially be much smaller.
Back to our subject: the Jump Projector is a great example of an outside force applying a jump field to an object, just like Jump Gates would have to do. It also implies that only a sending Gate would be necessary. (Of course, you'd need one on the other side to get back.) Making them at TL18 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for the milieu, and that TL is so rare as to be limited to Referee intervention.
Just some food for thought,
Flynn
First, there needs to be a correction made -- in B5 there are a number of instances of the Jump Gates showing that while they can be used as an origin and destination gate, they do not need to be. There are episodes where a jump gate opens a portal with no gate being on the receiving end. The nature of B5 Jump Space is that the gates opened portals and the ships traveled through them, and through jump space to the exit portal on the other end; very different beast than Traveller's jump space.
As for the question regarding my idea of 'jump capacitors' I see the "jump engine" as a collection of engine modules, each serving a different purpose. So, 20% of the engine is the 'jump capacitor' which keeps the ship stable while in jump space. And 80% of the engine is the jump charger, which punches a hole through normal space into jump space.
To answer the question then -- yes, all jump capable ships have built in capacitors.
Now, based on our current theories of projected energy space travel, it might be easier to create a jump gate before ships actually have jump drives built for them.
An alternative FTL method that I'm using in MTU is the 'warp-point or jump-point' system. These are more akin to the Nivel-Pournell 'Alderson Points' from the Mote series...or the warp points similar to many other sci-fi stories. Warp Points are created by Gravity Well interactions between stars and gas-giants. There is a gravity grid 'sweet spot' that ends in a well that links with another like it in some system some place far away. There is one warp point per gas giant per star -- so the more stars & gas giants the better. There are also warp points in a star per star relationship (these are farther reaching). There are short 'open ended' warp points in gas giant per gas giant interaction -- but these end in deep space outside the system and taking them is generally a death sentence.
I'm using this FTL method as it fits into the campaign story that I'm running. Mankind is new to star-travel and has only a few extra-solar colonies with about a 1/2 dozen outposts and mining/research facilities. Space travel is dangerous and lonely.
Now, I was going to use my rocket rules -- even have them written up for T20 and ready to go. I began to talk to my players about the campaign and heard a unified wail regarding using rockets and G-Hour of fuel/thrust. One player asked "so we have to be worried about passing out" and another said "I don't want to do the math". My argument that I did all the math, and had spreadsheet forms written to figure out everything they needed to know -- even the travel time for shooting a rifle round at a space ship, but they were unconvinced. They asked (pleaded really) that I while they liked the FTL idea and the campaign setting (as I described it to them) they would rather stick as close to rules as they could for most of it.
So, the only thing I'm adding is this:
1) any vessel can enter the warp point. To do so means that you must make a astrogration and a piloting skill check against some really high number or you suffer some form of side effect (i.e. an internal hit on the combat chart or, if it's a bad failure, total ship destruction).
2) having a 'jump capacitor' will charge the hull and align its gravity signature in a way that will enable it to traverse the warp point without harm. You still need to make an astrogration and piloting check -- but only a fumble will result in an internal hit.
3) jump capacitors require EP to run (it'll be much higher than the normal jump drives) and are the same size as jump drives.
As the game begins man-kind has only met non-sentient life-forms on the planets it’s explored.
The 1st species that man will meet is a pithicine race that is highly aggressive and very war-like. Though, they are at a much lower tech than the humans. They'll use my infamous rocket rules (heh...got 'em in there anyway) and will only use vehicle based weapons (no star ship weapons) and they have not developed the jump capacitor yet. But, they have highly developed and fully sustained colonies across 15 star systems and a number of military bases on a few others. They might not be as advanced as the humans, but they have a better organized space military and are all mostly veteran combatants.
The concept I had was that there are events that will occur set by a calendar that may or may not be affected by the players. The bulk of space travel is commercial and private (well, as private as possible) with no real military presence except for self policing (self as in human only). So when a large interstellar war starts the call goes out for privateers and almost anyone that can help.
The game can pretty much go any direction the players want. I'll have the 'grand picture' occurring per my master calendar. I kind of saw it as a 19th century futuristic version of WW2. There won't be open conflict at first as both sides are 'feeling' each other out and seeing how and who they are but the pithicines will make a strike and the humans will be left scrambling.....
anyway, I hope it turns out fun.
As for the question regarding my idea of 'jump capacitors' I see the "jump engine" as a collection of engine modules, each serving a different purpose. So, 20% of the engine is the 'jump capacitor' which keeps the ship stable while in jump space. And 80% of the engine is the jump charger, which punches a hole through normal space into jump space.
To answer the question then -- yes, all jump capable ships have built in capacitors.
Now, based on our current theories of projected energy space travel, it might be easier to create a jump gate before ships actually have jump drives built for them.
An alternative FTL method that I'm using in MTU is the 'warp-point or jump-point' system. These are more akin to the Nivel-Pournell 'Alderson Points' from the Mote series...or the warp points similar to many other sci-fi stories. Warp Points are created by Gravity Well interactions between stars and gas-giants. There is a gravity grid 'sweet spot' that ends in a well that links with another like it in some system some place far away. There is one warp point per gas giant per star -- so the more stars & gas giants the better. There are also warp points in a star per star relationship (these are farther reaching). There are short 'open ended' warp points in gas giant per gas giant interaction -- but these end in deep space outside the system and taking them is generally a death sentence.
I'm using this FTL method as it fits into the campaign story that I'm running. Mankind is new to star-travel and has only a few extra-solar colonies with about a 1/2 dozen outposts and mining/research facilities. Space travel is dangerous and lonely.
Now, I was going to use my rocket rules -- even have them written up for T20 and ready to go. I began to talk to my players about the campaign and heard a unified wail regarding using rockets and G-Hour of fuel/thrust. One player asked "so we have to be worried about passing out" and another said "I don't want to do the math". My argument that I did all the math, and had spreadsheet forms written to figure out everything they needed to know -- even the travel time for shooting a rifle round at a space ship, but they were unconvinced. They asked (pleaded really) that I while they liked the FTL idea and the campaign setting (as I described it to them) they would rather stick as close to rules as they could for most of it.
So, the only thing I'm adding is this:
1) any vessel can enter the warp point. To do so means that you must make a astrogration and a piloting skill check against some really high number or you suffer some form of side effect (i.e. an internal hit on the combat chart or, if it's a bad failure, total ship destruction).
2) having a 'jump capacitor' will charge the hull and align its gravity signature in a way that will enable it to traverse the warp point without harm. You still need to make an astrogration and piloting check -- but only a fumble will result in an internal hit.
3) jump capacitors require EP to run (it'll be much higher than the normal jump drives) and are the same size as jump drives.
As the game begins man-kind has only met non-sentient life-forms on the planets it’s explored.
The 1st species that man will meet is a pithicine race that is highly aggressive and very war-like. Though, they are at a much lower tech than the humans. They'll use my infamous rocket rules (heh...got 'em in there anyway) and will only use vehicle based weapons (no star ship weapons) and they have not developed the jump capacitor yet. But, they have highly developed and fully sustained colonies across 15 star systems and a number of military bases on a few others. They might not be as advanced as the humans, but they have a better organized space military and are all mostly veteran combatants.
The concept I had was that there are events that will occur set by a calendar that may or may not be affected by the players. The bulk of space travel is commercial and private (well, as private as possible) with no real military presence except for self policing (self as in human only). So when a large interstellar war starts the call goes out for privateers and almost anyone that can help.
The game can pretty much go any direction the players want. I'll have the 'grand picture' occurring per my master calendar. I kind of saw it as a 19th century futuristic version of WW2. There won't be open conflict at first as both sides are 'feeling' each other out and seeing how and who they are but the pithicines will make a strike and the humans will be left scrambling.....
anyway, I hope it turns out fun.
RabidVargr
SOC-13
Potential reasons for using a JG at origin and destination:
1) Safety. They can lock onto one another by some super-duper-hyper-pulse signal and coordinate the jump between them, reducing the risk of a misjump or chance of jumping into an object (ship, rock, whatever) Kind of like startrek, why can they beam to anywhere on a planet surface, but when it's ship to ship, do they always end up in the transporter room?
2) Reduced energy cost. Both gates only have to fork out half the energy cost, resulting in the emerging ship getting a "survival toll" as well. Wouldn't wanna charge full price if they didn't make it, would you? That'd make me and TJ feel bad...
RV
1) Safety. They can lock onto one another by some super-duper-hyper-pulse signal and coordinate the jump between them, reducing the risk of a misjump or chance of jumping into an object (ship, rock, whatever) Kind of like startrek, why can they beam to anywhere on a planet surface, but when it's ship to ship, do they always end up in the transporter room?
2) Reduced energy cost. Both gates only have to fork out half the energy cost, resulting in the emerging ship getting a "survival toll" as well. Wouldn't wanna charge full price if they didn't make it, would you? That'd make me and TJ feel bad...
RV
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
________________________________________________Originally posted by RabidVargr:
Potential reasons for using a JG at origin and destination:
1) Safety. They can lock onto one another by some super-duper-hyper-pulse signal and coordinate the jump between them, reducing the risk of a misjump or chance of jumping into an object (ship, rock, whatever) Kind of like startrek, why can they beam to anywhere on a planet surface, but when it's ship to ship, do they always end up in the transporter room?
2) Reduced energy cost. Both gates only have to fork out half the energy cost, resulting in the emerging ship getting a "survival toll" as well. Wouldn't wanna charge full price if they didn't make it, would you? That'd make me and TJ feel bad...
RV
Point one: is well taken Safety/ cuts losses in ships (which equates in all ends to $$$(crews, ships, cargoes, insurance on same)!
Point Two: Though costlier in the short run, the safer the traffic, the higher the volume carried offsets in tolls( ala Weber-verse). Also FTL commo thru these is faster/ better co-ordinated than the standard 6.5 day between jumps, and systems markets, etc are more tied into news than systems where the gates are not.
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In reference to Flynn's post about CT-Jump gates/ Secrets of the Ancients Good scholarship sir! Thank you fer reminding even this old heretic of their existence! Kudos!
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Big Tim: Yes, B-5 had instances of ships targetting exits thru the gates to systems without, or from those without them to exit a gate. True.
A special sorta drive and nav system fer traveller might be required to "home-IN" on these in that way...a Keyhole drive(which is also in FF&S).
B5 references are not the "Tunnel NHN" model shown in FF&S; B5 gates are a "One-way-at-a-time portal, NH or HN". B5's hyperspace is navigated and flown using normal n-space flight mechanics, aside from the lack of sensor propagation. A B5 gate doesn't create a tunnel, merely a portal.
The FF&S Gates are a tunnel that goes NHN, requires no ship's power (You're pushed into it and fall out). Jump Projectors are the same thing, just without a "Fly through targeting".
Canonically, thrust in jump has either
(1) no significant effect, as it would have been tried and is not mentioned as having succeeded;
or
(2) is already acconted for. (this last is unlikely, as higher MD ratings have no effecct on jump accuracy nor range).
I'm a fan of Alderson Points. (I like Starfire, too...) Note that the Honor Harrington (David Webber Honorverse) points are neither gates, nor exactly alderson points; they can be/are replicated with FF&S Keyhole Drives. The stations are defending a known point, not creating it. The ships need jump-sails to catch the point and transit. (Note also, Webber is a former Starfire Line Editor, and one of the early Developers for the Starfire game line... the similarities are probably NOT coincidence.)
I also liked the 2300 Stutterwarp drives, and IMTU, J1 (0.5LY/day, TL 9, 4%) and J2 (1 LY/day, TL12, 6%) stutterwarp exist; they shut down at about 1000 diameters.
The FF&S Gates are a tunnel that goes NHN, requires no ship's power (You're pushed into it and fall out). Jump Projectors are the same thing, just without a "Fly through targeting".
Canonically, thrust in jump has either
(1) no significant effect, as it would have been tried and is not mentioned as having succeeded;
or
(2) is already acconted for. (this last is unlikely, as higher MD ratings have no effecct on jump accuracy nor range).
I'm a fan of Alderson Points. (I like Starfire, too...) Note that the Honor Harrington (David Webber Honorverse) points are neither gates, nor exactly alderson points; they can be/are replicated with FF&S Keyhole Drives. The stations are defending a known point, not creating it. The ships need jump-sails to catch the point and transit. (Note also, Webber is a former Starfire Line Editor, and one of the early Developers for the Starfire game line... the similarities are probably NOT coincidence.)
I also liked the 2300 Stutterwarp drives, and IMTU, J1 (0.5LY/day, TL 9, 4%) and J2 (1 LY/day, TL12, 6%) stutterwarp exist; they shut down at about 1000 diameters.
In current physics theory my understanding is that (forget the physicsts name, think he's an aussie) anyway, he says that a magnetic field on the order of about 10,000 Teslas should be powerful enough to rip open a worm hole.
I'll admit I have zero knowledge of what measure a Tesla is; but this sounds like it would take a fantastical amount of power.
I'll admit I have zero knowledge of what measure a Tesla is; but this sounds like it would take a fantastical amount of power.
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