Kafers

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by Colin:
Andromeda? Nope, don't watch it. Try to pretend it doesn't exist, in fact.

I don't think of them as a "domesticated" Kafer. More like one who realizes that there are other ways. And I wasn't clear on what I meant by meditation. In this case, its done in pairs, and involves long, hard pieces of wood. After stimulation, they would use the gain in intelligence to meditate alone, to study and learn. But the initiating act itself is very ritualized. The upshot is that these monks, through their ritualized fighting and the discipline they impose on themselves, are as smart as Kafer officers and scientists, without the overwhelming bloodlust. They are no nicer, really, but somewhat more amenable to reason. They are also not followers of "Striker-of-Stars", but follow a different path.

What I'm trying to do here is salvage the Kafers somewhat. They are really a one-trick pony, the "evil" alien invaders, fit only to be mown down like orcs in some other game. And that's the role the vast majority of them still fill (more-or-less, further details must wat, I'm afraid...)

They are not about to throw down their guns and declare peace-and-love. Even the monks are quite brutal by human standards. But at least they will talk. Kafer culture is not monolithic.

The Kafers we all know and "love" are the followers of Striker of Stars' regilion (sp?). They may dominate the colonies (which are part of the Kafer assault on the universe, a SoS thing), but the homeworld could be as complex as Earth. SoS might be the Christianity/ Islam of the Kafers, but other might exist.

Bryn

 

[Colin]

Exactly. And there are lots of those guys around. They far outnumber any other faction or cult, even on the homeworld. The monks I am speaking about are few in number, but, in 2320, they have an important role to play...

 

[Whipsnade]

Colin wrote:

"Andromeda? Nope, don't watch it. Try to pretend it doesn't exist, in fact."


Colin,

I've had the misfortune of seeing parts of an episode or two. (shudder) My question wasn't meant to be a 'crack', I was just wracking what little brains I have for an analogy of your Kafer monks.

"What I'm trying to do here is salvage the Kafers somewhat. They are really a one-trick pony, the "evil" alien invaders, fit only to be mown down like orcs in some other game. And that's the role the vast majority of them still fill (more-or-less, further details must wat, I'm afraid...)"

Spot on, the Kafer are one-trick ponies, little more than PC canon fodder and a handy tool for GMs.

Your 'monks' still adhere to the basic tenets of Kafer society; the daily violence schtick introduced by that Kafer whose name escapes me. They just happen to reject S-o-S's additions to that philosophy.

The 'Sourcebook' indicates that despite the worldwide triumph of the 'daily violence' philosophy, they were starting to show signs of their stupid cities vs. smart barbarian Motie cycle beginning again. S-o-S sidestepped the issue by launching a space program to look for opponents.

I could see your monks being heirs to a minority reaction to S-o-S's polocies. They could feel that only *inter-Kafer* violence begets 'true' intelligence, that intelligence gained by violent interaction with non-Kafers is somehow tainted or less pure than the 'real' thing.

This would still make them deadly, but they would also become NPCS that are more nuanced and not merely a 'knee jerk' or 'one-trick pony'. Having the Kafers loosing badly during their invasion of the French Arm; as as canon by 2302, could begin to tip the scales towards the monks' viewpoint. Much like in Niven's books when the effect of losing all those wars against humans eventually produced a more tolerant Kzin, losing the French Arm War could descredit (or kill off) more of the strident supporters of S-o-S tenets and increase the influence of the monks.

Your proposal sounds fascinating. I will anxiously await your Kafer materials as you produce them.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Colin]

The monk's violence is also heavily ritualized. It's the act of fighting itself, not the death or injury of the other, that is the focus of their philosophy. It is still dangerous, but only if the moves, the kata, aren't followed perfectly. Otherwise they get a whack, which helps them remember. By the time a Kafer monk gets the kata perfect, s/he is effectively permanently smart. Coupled with thier rigorous course of education, make the monks quite formidable individuals.

It is the fight that is important, which is why humans and Ylii aren't worthy opponents, because they don't, and can't, get it. Or, at least for the most part, don't get it.

The Kafer known as Sartre, from the Mission: Arcturus module, though not a monk, was trained by them in one of their mountain schools, far from the chaos and random violence of the Kafer cities.

Violence from the monks is never random...

 

[aramis]

One thing about the kafer...

Those who fight require larger and larger threats to gain the boost, but they also lose less when coming down. I don't see any logic to why a non-violence movement would arise. The Ylii might be seen as a non-threat for the accomplished warrior, but for kafer cubs, they might be worthy training. The Smart kafer would probably prefer a "manageable threat" to internal dissent.

Asceticism in the kafer logically leads to outward directed violence. It was set up that way.

Attempts to make them "more civilized" really are attempts to make them more human. Lousy for story reasons.

If you are going to have less viscious Kafer, make them a pentapod tweak... or other externally created variant.

Biologically, go read Dawkins' "Selfish Gene". An organism will always be more likely to have soft feelings towards their own kind because it is the most advantageous situation for the genes which make the organism.

If the kafer developed an intellectual boost from their adrenaline analogue as a survival trait, then it was from outside threats that it was most strongly triggered, originally from outside their race, by predators. Their "boogie man" would be a carnivore that was "Stable in its smartness"; us violent omnivores are close enough to trigger that inherent unease in kafer.

If you don't want the Kafer wiped out, instead of having a pacifist faction (unlikely), have a "Realist Faction", which realizes that the Kafer are dommed if they don't stop losing to Humans, and Humans are winning far too often.

Time to stop, regroup, and hold the borders, but go no farther.

Use of a synthetic adrenal compound, or adrenal gland stimulant.... and use it early and often on the next generation. Make it the ritual change. (Medicine as a good thing... very cyberpunk.)

Add a different threat on the other side... one which the kafer can beat, but not quickly....

 

[TWILIGHT]

Im sure im not the first to express reservations about 2320. Dont get me wrong I WILL buy it as ive been looking forward to more 2300 stuff for years but im a little concerned over changes to it's canon. Have all the changes been ok'd by messrs. Miller, Chadwick etc? The idea of a pacifist (sorry, less violently unpredicatble) kafer is unsettling. Half my players will find the idea intriguing, then ultimately let down and return to anti-kafer slaughter and the other half will think that the writers have gone mad. The BEST ever concieved alien in any fiction (IMHO) reduced to acting like klingons. The fun from kafers is that they CANNOT be reasoned with. They are out to exterminate mankind so we better get them before they get us! True, a little simplistic but thats the humans view of the kafers and after the millions who've died in the war not to mention the genocide of Hochbaden it isnt going to change anytime soon. The kafers have MADE humanity into the smart barbarian just to protect itself. Anyway, smarter for the kafers means MORE violence not less, any smart kafer will realise the benefits of intelligence and how he got there. I see the kafer front as a no-mans land for arcturus with punitive small scale raids by either side (1 ship-squad level troops) which will give new opportunities to pc's to sneak into kafer systems and engage in small acts of sabotage and Human/Ylii joint operations at the other side of the Kafer sphere (an opportunity for 'operation back door' to see print maybe?). anyway, still looking forward to 2320 (please dont mess about with my beloved 2300 too much!) and hopefully all my fears will be groundless as they were with T20.

 

[Colin]

I'm not talking about all Kafers. Nor are the Kafer 'monks' pacifists. They simply approach their violence in a different way. There will still be Kafers to beat up on should the need arise. I am simply trying to interject a little more variety to the race as a whole. The 'monks' are not wide-spread, nor is thier 'religion' well-regarded by the majority of the Kafers. The leaders way understand it's value, but the rabble see them as traitors. The 'monks' are not a major part of 2320, and, quite frankly, I may have gone to far in my 'thinking aloud' here. Kafers will still be available as cannon-fodder, it's just that the race, as a whole, needs to move forward somewhat.

As for the question of whether M. Miller, et al, have OK'd this, he's only OK'd the outline. This would still have to pass muster with him, and the folks at QLI who run the show.

However, I think the possibility of encountering a Kafer who was 'different' lends value to the setting. The prescence of the 'monk' or some other faction, lends variety to the 2320 setting, by presenting more opportunities for conflict, and, perhaps, even interaction. This addition in no way affects prior canon, and simply adds to it. I'm not turning the entire race into pacifists, and indeed, the 'monks' wouldn't understand the concept. But thier intellectual regimen gives them the potential to understand things that other Kafers may miss.

I also do understand the importance of the Kafer adrenal analog reaction, and its survival benefit. But Kafers are past the simple survival portion of their culture, and into a phase where other modes of thought can arise. For a few, at least.

 

[Colin]

The Kafer 'monks' are an evolving concept, as are my ideas for any of the races in 2320. I have no desire to fundametally change any of hte races, I do, however, want to add more nuances to them, make them a little more detailed, a little more unpredictable.

Thanks,

Colin

 

[Murph]

How do the Kafer interact with each other? A struggle of the fittest, killing off the weakest, a contest of domination? Or something else?

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Colin:
The Kafer 'monks' are an evolving concept, as are my ideas for any of the races in 2320.

Colin,

Good, 'evolve' them into your computer's recycle bin then.

The 2320 crew has done one helluva a job updating the game but the idea of Kafer 'monks' is mind boggling. It will be an 'improvement' remembered with the likes of others such as T4's FusionPlus.

I re-read the Kafer Sourcebook after hearing of this idea. I re-read 'Arcturus Station[/i], Invasion, and the Aurora books too. The Kafer 'route' to intelligence is pretty clear; force a 'flight or fight' response in an individual Kafer and its intelligence will increase. The biochemical mechanism is pretty much spelled out and Kafer society in 2300AD is superbly crafted around it.

The idea that Kafer 'monks' engaged in ritualistic 'katas' could trigger a endocrinlogical(sic) response close enough to the actual 'flight or fight' response in just plain silly. Can human 'monks' trigger adrenal bursts through 'katas', 'meditation', and other practices? Of course they can't.

I suspect the idea of Kafer 'monks' is just an clumsy attempt to give 2320 players 'Klingon' characters for the setting. That is not neccesary. There are aready plenty of 'smart' Kafers who don't automatically kill any sophonts they come in contact with and not all at the socio-political level of Triumphant Destiny either. 'Sartre' aboard Arcturus Station was one such. The need for Kafer officers, economic leaders, and the like means that permanently 'smart' Kafers do exist and exist in large enough numbers for Kafer PCs to exist in extraordinary situations.

Creating Kafer 'monk' Klingon-clones is both a disasterous idea and an unneccessary one.

Just my 0.02Cr.


Bill

 

[Colin]

Gah. A two-year-old thread resurrected...
The monk concept did evolve into something rather different, which will come to light in some adventures planned for after the book's release.
Does something like these monks still exist? Not really. Not in the way described, in any case. The monks got the boot over two years ago.

 

[Whipsnade]

Colin,

Yes, I should have noticed the dates when I followed the 'Recent Posts' link. Mea culpa.

Still, if I had stumbled across the Kafer 'monks' idea two years ago I would have written the same post.

I'm glad the idea got 'evolved' into the 'circular' file! It was both goofy and a disaster in waiting.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Commander Jameson]

Apols for contributing to this thread necromancy, but I just wanted to register another concern about the Kafers.

The chances of a nearby intelligent species having roughly the same tech level as humanity when we meet them are very remote. Of course it makes for a more exciting war than one against a bunch of cavemen or superbeings. But 2300's strongest suit is plausibility, and here's one area it seems to fall down.

My suggestion would be greatly to lengthen the timespan of Kafer development from what's in the existing material (I think the old Kafer sourcebook has them industrialising in the early centuries AD). Have them running round the cycle of progress and collapse to smart barbarians for millennia. Then perhaps a lone Ylii scout ship crashlands on their homeworld in territory controlled by Striker of Stars, and gives them their start on the road to technology. (We already know the Ylii are very old.)

Just my tuppence-worth.

 

[Kzintosh]

Very interesting threat here. Colin, I like the thought you've put into everyone's favorite 2300 AD alien, and I think the rounds of discussion have been pretty informed. Sometimes you have to take an old idea and try to tweak it. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. A thread on "Transkafer" helps open a forum on the potential fate of the Kafer species in the setting. I think the task to evolve the Kafers in the setting will be a monumental one. The idea of adding a little more variety to the Kafer, as a whole, is a good idea. I'd encourage you on this. I think you'll find the Kafer exceptions to the SoS's monolithic culture are those Kafer who have been blessed with more advanced intelligence to begin with. They have the intelligence to introduce subcultures into the whole cloth of Kaferism.

But the end result is that their still dependent on their evolved adreanal-intelligence dependance.
The Kafers were literally designed by Chadwik et. al to be the implacable alien. Humanity might come to understand them, but to deal with them - let alone arriving at a solution of peacefully co-existing them with - will be (has been) a horrendous cost in lives. A price I think humanity will not want to pay. The Kafers are a "victim" of their own evolution. Their primitive understanding of medicine dooms their species to their cycle of violence (a lifestyle they must demand of their galactic neighbors around them).

Their will be plenty of exceptional Kafers. Perhaps enough to form their own little subcultures (ala Foundations).

The best solution to the Kafer "problem" is brutally simple:

Containment of the Kafers to their sphere of space (a very costly option in the long run),

Introduction of the Pentapod plague (or a varient) to the rest of Kafer space, or

Genocide.

 

[Gnusam Netor]

Like with so many others i like the Kafers too. (although, me being a smart-ass forces me to inform you that it should be spelled "Käfer", never mind that though

)

I like the motivation behind the Kafers aggression, they realising they get smarter by it, it is a very alien idea and that is as it should be with aliens.
Further why why don't they manufacture artificial intelli-adrenaline? That has a good answer too, they have stone-age medical technology. Why do they have that? The pain from wounds or sickness raises their temp-intelligence. They don't want to get better or be treated, nor has there been any evolutionary drive for it. Thus, medical tech never advanced. Brilliant!

Thats how i understood my friend Cymews seriously waterdamaged Kafer sourcebook atleast.
(he must have bathed with it or something)

Now here is an idea i thought of. What if the Humans started manufacturing artificial Kafer-adrenaline? After 20 years humans would have chemically identified the Kafer-smart-adrenaline for sure. I'm sure the Kafer Suzerains(?)/their government would see this as the ultimate biological weapon. A concept of warfare they have the know-how to do themselves surpisingly. If they don't know their own biology, why would they understand what effects humans?

Anyway, they would certainly try to stop human-smart-drugs from spreading in their civilization. If the spread is successful however, artificial smart drugs for the Kafers would inhibit their prime motive for wanting war. If I lived on Aurora and wanted peace with the Kafers, I would definatly try to make smart-drugs for the Kafers, perhaps distributing it among captured Kafers while conditioning them to be flower-picking Buddhas. I would go Hiver on their ass in short.

I know this isn't so good for the story though, a good genocidal alien makes scenariobuilding easier. So how do you stop my evil and cunning plan?

 

[Colin]

See a thing called a "Drug Bug" (Loren's name, not mine) in the Alien Tech section of 2320AD when it comes out. The few examples found had traces of para-adrenal analog in them, which can make a dumb Kafer smart, or keep a smart Kafer smart. Both the drug-bug and the para-adrenal analog appear to be products of an advanced biotechnology, but not obviously Pentapod.

Yes, I know how it should be spelled. However, Kafer is the way is has been spelled, and that is the term that has enetered the common lexicon of the 2320AD world.

 

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Colin:
*snip*
Yes, I know how it should be spelled. However, Kafer is the way is has been spelled, and that is the term that has enetered the common lexicon of the 2320AD world.

FWIW, "Kafer" is pronounced exactly the same way as the German "Käfer", so - not knowing the canon origin of the term - I´d say some German native speaker coined the term, and English native speakers heard it and adopted it into English without knowing (or caring about) how it is spelled.

 

[Colin]

Originally posted by Chaos:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Colin:
*snip*
Yes, I know how it should be spelled. However, Kafer is the way is has been spelled, and that is the term that has enetered the common lexicon of the 2320AD world.

FWIW, "Kafer" is pronounced exactly the same way as the German "Käfer", so - not knowing the canon origin of the term - I´d say some German native speaker coined the term, and English native speakers heard it and adopted it into English without knowing (or caring about) how it is spelled. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, pretty much. Just like many other words that have been absorbed by the giant linguistic amoeba that is English.

 

[Gnusam Netor]

So smart-drugs won't be a Kafer-breaker then? Good.

Annoying side-effects and stuff like that. Maybe it will be in their genes to find it "unmanly"? Or perhaps they will get addicted to it (and get the violence but not the brains) if it isn't real?

It is not pronounced exactly the same... it probably even differs among germans.

I don't like amoebas amoebic behaviour, but respect and adjust to their power.

 

[BMonnery]

The term comes from Bavarian legioniares in the Legion Etranger, who encountered them on Aurore. Prior to this they were called Arcturians.