Kinetic Cloth

[kilemall]

Cloth can be treated to resist knives, swords and other melee weapons.

This kinetic cloth resists penetration by bladed weapons, animal weapons, etc., but not slug guns or other higher tech weaponry.

Using Striker rules, Kinetic Cloth gives an additional +2 armor value against melee weapons, and can be applied to normal clothing or armor. A similar conversion can be worked out for most versions, a low but useful additive value similar to Mesh.

Kinetic Cloth costs 10% or 200 Cr for the treatment, whichever costs more.

That cost is for items that are mass-produced- applying it to the unique fabrics of civilian dress is very much a custom process, especially if it is for a full wardrobe of a VIP. Roll 1d6 per item and multiply against 10% of the cost of the civilian item or 200 CR, apply whichever costs more.

It is available as a military item at TL9+, and as a civilian option at TL10+.

It is very popular with civilian hunters and hikers with jack armor as protection against wildlife and hazards, scout teams especially operating undercover on barbarian contact planets, a standard option for many service uniforms, highly desirable for vacc suits especially for working battle damage/salvage/construction, and an extra edge on high law level planets with only blades legal.

It's usually not worth adding to combat armor and battle dress due to the cost and limited need due to their higher protection against blades anyway.

One aspect often not considered ahead of time is that normal tailoring tools will not penetrate or break on attempting to cut or thread items on a treated piece. Lasers and high tensile power tools are required to tailor these clothes/uniforms, and insignia/rank are often magnetically/velcro affixed.

This is based on the US Army's program for rendering ballistic suits stab proof. Arguably I have set the value too low, I just didn't want this overpowered or eliminate melee weapons altogether too soon, too cheaply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYIWfn2Jz2g

I have also not postulated TL improvements in the technology. I figure there is an upper limit to what it can do.

Also, the 'tech tree' of melee weapons is not a settled thing across most Traveller versions, or issues like how the standard materials tech increases with composites/superdens/bonded superdense is applied to weapons, or what happens when powered armor with augmented strength or robots with a STR of 50 are wielding swords.

A lot of what one can or should allow with armor increases would be predicated on how that particular arms race proceeds.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Cloth can be treated to resist knives, swords and other melee weapons.

This kinetic cloth resists penetration by bladed weapons, animal weapons, etc., but not slug guns or other higher tech weaponry.

Using Striker rules, Kinetic Cloth gives an additional +2 armor value against melee weapons, and can be applied to normal clothing or armor. A similar conversion can be worked out for most versions, a low but useful additive value similar to Mesh.

Kinetic Cloth costs 10% or 200 Cr for the treatment, whichever costs more.

That cost is for items that are mass-produced- applying it to the unique fabrics of civilian dress is very much a custom process, especially if it is for a full wardrobe of a VIP. Roll 1d6 per item and multiply against 10% of the cost of the civilian item or 200 CR, apply whichever costs more.

It is available as a military item at TL9+, and as a civilian option at TL10+.

It is very popular with civilian hunters and hikers with jack armor as protection against wildlife and hazards, scout teams especially operating undercover on barbarian contact planets, a standard option for many service uniforms, highly desirable for vacc suits especially for working battle damage/salvage/construction, and an extra edge on high law level planets with only blades legal.

It's usually not worth adding to combat armor and battle dress due to the cost and limited need due to their higher protection against blades anyway.

One aspect often not considered ahead of time is that normal tailoring tools will not penetrate or break on attempting to cut or thread items on a treated piece. Lasers and high tensile power tools are required to tailor these clothes/uniforms, and insignia/rank are often magnetically/velcro affixed.

This is based on the US Army's program for rendering ballistic suits stab proof. Arguably I have set the value too low, I just didn't want this overpowered or eliminate melee weapons altogether too soon, too cheaply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYIWfn2Jz2g

I have also not postulated TL improvements in the technology. I figure there is an upper limit to what it can do.

Also, the 'tech tree' of melee weapons is not a settled thing across most Traveller versions, or issues like how the standard materials tech increases with composites/superdens/bonded superdense is applied to weapons, or what happens when powered armor with augmented strength or robots with a STR of 50 are wielding swords.

A lot of what one can or should allow with armor increases would be predicated on how that particular arms race proceeds.

I hope that T5 helps settles some of these issues.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[kilemall]

I hope that T5 helps settles some of these issues.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

I don't quite understand your point- are you referring to the tech tree question?

I think I can work something out in Striker, but I'm wanting more of the same 'offense leaps ahead/now defense/grungy reality' aspects in that iteration of weapons tech.

A straight up extrapolation of materials tech, say multiplying penetration by relative armor strength, yields starship hull cutting broadswords. A bit much for muscle power, although again robots and battle dress do not have the limits of human muscle.

But I can't help but think Marines are not going to sit idly by and let technology make their beloved cutlasses obsolete.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I don't quite understand your point- are you referring to the tech tree question?

I think I can work something out in Striker, but I'm wanting more of the same 'offense leaps ahead/now defense/grungy reality' aspects in that iteration of weapons tech.

A straight up extrapolation of materials tech, say multiplying penetration by relative armor strength, yields starship hull cutting broadswords. A bit much for muscle power, although again robots and battle dress do not have the limits of human muscle.

But I can't help but think Marines are not going to sit idly by and let technology make their beloved cutlasses obsolete.

All of the above.

I would like to see the T5 book edited and expanded with additional supplements / books that resolve questions like yours.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Timerover51]

How much padding is under it to absorb the force of the blow?

A sledgehammer has almost no penetration, but will break bones quite effectively.

 

[kilemall]

How much padding is under it to absorb the force of the blow?

A sledgehammer has almost no penetration, but will break bones quite effectively.

if I am reading between the contextual lines accurately, T5 does this sort of thing better.

Heh, we approached this in my ongoing CT Striker thread re: taking a mace to the head.

On a Striker system basis I would tend to still use penetration, under the theory that part of what advanced armor does is reduce overall hydrostatic shock, not just ship/tank type penetrate/no penetrate, and penetration is also used as a general measure of damage inflicted.

After considering this for a bit and playing with the Striker materials tech vs. extant melee weapons, I think melee weapons would go down four paths of development.

1) The increased toughness of the newer materials means weapons that retain extant forms and damage potential, but would be MUCH lighter and thinner. So think broadsword that has a 4 strength minimum and perhaps a 5 advantage. The lightness means less kinetic force based on weight behind the blade's impact but presumably sharper higher tech cutting/punching power and ability for the user to swing/stab faster that make up for it.

2) Melee weapons that retain their current form factors but are made of the new materials, so they weigh a LOT more, have better cutting/piercing properties and require STR 15-25, thus are used only by powered armor troopers and robots.

3) Entirely new form factors based on the above two materials paths which open up new design possibilities and weapon types, and

4) The exotic stuff that has nothing to do with materials toughness per se but operate on different principles.

I would expect your high tech sledgehammer to weigh something like 15-30kg while being the same size, and deal out terrible damage in the hands of augmented strength.

 

[Timerover51]

Actually, I was thinking of an old-fashioned 15 pounds sledge for driving railroad spikes or maybe the mauls used by the English longbowmen to pound on the French armored knights with.

 

[atpollard]

Actually, I was thinking of an old-fashioned 15 pounds sledge for driving railroad spikes or maybe the mauls used by the English longbowmen to pound on the French armored knights with.

I have seen people smash CMU blocks on the chest of a man with such a hammer without harming the individual, so the secret would be to spread the load out over a large enough area uniformly. This could be achieved with a material that was able to deform slowly, but not quickly. This would allow flexible movement while forming a rigid carapace to spread an instantaneous point load (like a blow from a sledge hammer) over the entire torso.

Just a thought.

 

[Lycanorukke]

This would allow flexible movement while forming a rigid carapace to spread an instantaneous point load (like a blow from a sledge hammer) over the entire torso.

Use a Non Newtonian fluid (shear thickening). A few militaries now are working on so called 'liquid armour' for bullets as well as melee armour.

 

[mike wightman]

They already exist in the form of body armour for extreme sports as well.

 

[flykiller]

a material that was able to deform slowly, but not quickly.

put more precisely, perhaps flexible at subsonic velocities but ridgid at supersonic?

 

[kilemall]

Use a Non Newtonian fluid (shear thickening). A few militaries now are working on so called 'liquid armour' for bullets as well as melee armour.

Um, ya, that's what I posted.

 

[kilemall]

Actually, I was thinking of an old-fashioned 15 pounds sledge for driving railroad spikes or maybe the mauls used by the English longbowmen to pound on the French armored knights with.

I'm reading that the latter were more in the 3-5 lb category, relatively light (not surprising since it isn't as big on the weapon part as say a halberd, and mostly mounted on wood. A full sized polearm version would weigh more of course.

A 15 lb sledgehammer would weigh a lot more in Traveller terms then even the top of the line broadsword/battleaxe, so pretty high on the strength requirements to use as a battle implement.

The PA versions I was mentioning would weigh 2-4x even that. I'm not sure the damage would just stop with bone breaking and organ damage/shock with one of those.