General K'kree Diet

[Krikkitone]

I always find it amazing how a thread can develop when I was just trying to figure out what to feed a K'kree trading delegation at a formal dinner.

I think one consideration with the original question is the Vilani issue. When getting food for another species, you need to check Everything by your Xenobiologist. Even on the same biosphere, if you feed a Solomani delegation a random plant/animal from Terra there’s a chance it will poison all of them…and even if they are foods, there’s a chance one of them is allergic.

That said, once you check with your xenobiologist, since Kkree are grazers… (possibly like giraffes). I would expect the meal would look like a nice meal for a horse/cow…decent amount of a variety of different leafy greens for the main course, and probably some sweet fruit type treats and maybe some protein rich nut/bean type ingredients.

..However, I might not be surprised if Kkree can fix their own nitrogen, since Terran “herbivores” will eat meat when they can get it. If Kkree had that impulse, it would be a little harder for their culture to hold. In that case maybe the nuts/beans not be as much of a treat as say a lipid rich nut/avocado type ingredients.

I might avoid bread, until you know exactly what this particular faction of Kkree thinks about yeast.(there may be some fanatic hardliners where the yeast counts as an animal and so serving it to them is like slipping bacon grease into a delegation from the Middle east).

It may be good for at least some of the food to be mashed/ground up. This way it would be like the food they got as infants. However this would need some cultural research…would they regard it as a comforting reminder of their youth or as insulting baby food.
(This is where you can have the roll for “will it go horribly horribly wrong” or a “masterful spectacular success”…where it is more cultural than biological)

 

[whartung]

Their objective is to never be predated upon again.

And humans are no different. We do not get along well with high level predators, and there are always issues at interface areas where "civilization" and "wilderness" meet. But that's why they're interface areas, the internal "safe" areas have already been wiped clean of major predators.

Now maybe the K'Kree go farther. I mean, if they settle in a valley, how far out do they go in terms of clearing out predators? 1km buffer? 10km? 100km? But it's hard to imagine them, say, landing in Cabo San Lucas, and clearing the entire peninsula of high level predators. "Oop, guess we need to clear all of North America -- the Great Cabo San Lucas Grizzly Bear hunt".

Zero tolerance, to be sure, if anything gets "close", but practicality says they gotta stop somewhere.

 

[mike wightman]

Once upon a time there were wolves and bears in England. They were hunted to extinction because of their threat to livestock.

The deer population thus grew out of control and now must be regularly culled/hunted.

 

[Timerover51]

Once upon a time there were wolves and bears in England. They were hunted to extinction because of their threat to livestock.

The deer population thus grew out of control and now must be regularly culled/hunted.

A lot of US states have the same problem, but hunting has acquired a stigma in some of the states, along with severe gun regulations, so the deer problem is getting worse. Then you have those who are opposed to killing Bambi. Letting them starve to death does not seem to register on them. Then you have the car-deer interactions, which are not good for either.

 

[Krikkitone]

And humans are no different. We do not get along well with high level predators, and there are always issues at interface areas where "civilization" and "wilderness" meet. But that's why they're interface areas, the internal "safe" areas have already been wiped clean of major predators.

Now maybe the K'Kree go farther. I mean, if they settle in a valley, how far out do they go in terms of clearing out predators? 1km buffer? 10km? 100km? But it's hard to imagine them, say, landing in Cabo San Lucas, and clearing the entire peninsula of high level predators. "Oop, guess we need to clear all of North America -- the Great Cabo San Lucas Grizzly Bear hunt".

Zero tolerance, to be sure, if anything gets "close", but practicality says they gotta stop somewhere.

Realistically the “level of predator suppression” would depend on

1. World population (more pop= more resources in the effort)
2. Time & Location (even on a 0 pop world, Kkree would kill off predators…. but it would need to be near other developed Kkree worlds for a long time period.)

(also given Kkree don’t care about the herbivores except as they impact the Kkree, a 0 pop world would probably be an ecological disaster as they would get most of the large predators extinct fairly easily… but the herbivores would just have waves of starvation and disease…..until they wanted to colonize, then they would need to stabilize.)

So if Terra had no humans and was an uncolonized Kkree world for 1000 years, all of the big cats+bears and probably all whales would be extinct…wolves and some sharks would probably be fine. If it was colonized with 10 billion Kkree for 1000 year the largest life form that ate meat would probably be a rat.

 

[Timerover51]

When I told my hotel chef that we needed to prepare a formal dinner for K'kree, he went on a multi-language rant about how he did not feed animals, despised vegetarians, and had no idea as to what they might eat. After throwing his apron and chef's hat at me, he then stormed out the door, shouting that I should talk to a veterinarian about what to feed animals. Taking up his idea, I contacted a local veterinarian for their input. I was bluntly told that they worked with small animals only, and had no interest in researching what might be acceptable to a talking horse. Thinking about the horse comment, I checked to see if there were any establishments on the planet that maintained horses, or at least large herbivores. I finally located a very expensive stable where a number of Terran horses were kept for those who could afford the cost on keeping and riding them. When contacted, they initially refused to talk, thinking I was some form of scammer. After physically going to the stable, which required an hour grav car ride, they finally talked to me, and charged me 1000 credits for the privilege. I was handed a large number of printouts of various feeds for horses, many of which had some form of animal product in them.

I finally did what I should have started out with, and researched on the planet computer network about feeding horses. I came across some very old works that had useful information, and developed the following menu.

To start off, a large tray of cut up apples and freshly washed carrots, about one pound of mixture per K'kree with a good fudge factor.

Follow this with a warm bran mash, prepared with wheat bran mixed with boiling distilled water, and about 1/2 ounce of salt per pound of bran, stirred thoroughly to make a thick gruel. Covered to retain the heat until served, and allowing a pound of mash per K'kree, with a 50% fudge factor.

Then, one large tray for each K'kree, holding about 5 pounds of mixed fresh timothy hay and blue grass (those were very expensive to get, by the way), with a large self-serve tray of the mixture, at about two and a half pounds additional per K'kree.

Then a dessert of baked oatmeal, prepared with all vegetarian ingredients, including soy milk and crushed flax seed to bind the oatmeal together. Approximately 1/2 pound of dessert per K'kree, again with additional large bars available.

Then there are the instructions to all attending to not have consumed any animal products for 72 hours prior to the dinner, and having a totally vegetarian meal for them. That was a pain as well, as dairy and egg substitutes cost a lot of credits, as the reason for the need got out, and prices went up accordingly from my suppliers.

Note to Self: Review supplier list for changes where possible.

The above account was taken from the hotel report on the K'kree dinner prepared by our former Guest Services head, Ramsey Pope. He has left the hotel and opened up a small restaurant specializing in meat cuisine, with no vegetarian meal options. He is fined regularly by the city health department for the lack of vegetarian meals, but as his restaurant is extremely popular, he views the fines as part of the cost of doing business. He is now catering most of the formal dinners for the Vargr and Aslan commercial delegations.

 

[King Midas]

You're misconstruing their goals. There's no hypocrisy.
It's not altruism towards all herbivores. Their altruism ends at "useful enough to us to be allowed to live."

Their objective is to never be predated upon again. They clearly will use any tool they can to do that.

They won't preserve anything that provides direct food competition.


there's no hypocrisy - only self-interest and a dangerous level of paranoia.

Hadn't thought of that. Does that mean that races like the Varushi, (and common grazer herbivores) are in as much danger as Aslan?

 

[Baroun Tardis]

..However, I might not be surprised if Kkree can fix their own nitrogen, since Terran “herbivores” will eat meat when they can get it. If Kkree had that impulse, it would be a little harder for their culture to hold. In that case maybe the nuts/beans not be as much of a treat as say a lipid rich nut/avocado type ingredients.

Makes me wonder about bugs and grubs and such.
Horses and cows just chow down, they don't pick out the little crawlies from their food. If there's a worm in that apple, they don't care.

Wonder how that works with K'kree...

 

[Condottiere]

Cane toads might survive.

 

[mike wightman]

Here are the choices for dealing with the K'kree genocidal mindset
the Hiver solution - manipulate a change to the K'kree mindset
Lucan's Imperial solution - crush them and enslave them as cyborgs
allow them to eradicate all threats across charted space - the Vargr and the Aslan may have something to say about this

 

[Krikkitone]

Hadn't thought of that. Does that mean that races like the Varushi, (and common grazer herbivores) are in as much danger as Aslan?

Varushi are just another sophont, and normal sophont relationships are possible (ie normal sophont relationships include standard supremacy of the Kkree and the Kkree way of life.) Aslan are an abomination, carnivorous sophonts.. they must not be permitted to exist. (if meat is a required part of their diet, then any Aslan in Kkree territory will doe of malnutrition)….given the Kkree
are TL 14+, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some bleeding heart Kkree scientist that works to Gengineer Carnivorous sophonts into herbivores. (mass gengineering as the kind alternative to mass annihilation)


As for bugs and grubs, I remember an insert that implied they did try to get them out (makes sense from hygiene) but it varies how strict/serious it is. (since there are certainly plenty of microscopic animals in the food)
(also what is considered animals, etc). Plenty of different factions.

 

[Condottiere]

They should faint at the sight of maggots doing their business.

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, genetically engineer maggots to crave K'kree living flesh...

 

[Condottiere]

They're going to be annoyed with parasites, such as mosquitos, fleas and ticks.

And once they discover microscopes, bacteria and viruses.

 

[Timerover51]

Hmm, genetically engineer maggots to crave K'kree living flesh...

I had not thought of that, but was thinking about more carnivorous rats and mice. I do not think it is possible to totally eradicate either of those critters.

You might want to read this one if you have not already. It is Join Our Gang?, by Sterling E. Lanier.

Join Our Gang?

www.gutenberg.org

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Condottiere]

Actually, now we know who the Xenomorphs were meant to deal with.

 

[Timerover51]

You could also try tsetse flies. You would just have to see if they liked the K'kree's blood for food, and then plant them on a K'kree planet with a lower population, so they could get solidly established.

I have now gone full circle, from determining what to feed a K'kree to what might feed on a K'kree. Not being a fan of them, getting them sick seems to be a good idea.

 

[mike wightman]

The mosquito should do it.
And vampire bats...

 

[aramis]

Hadn't thought of that. Does that mean that races like the Varushi, (and common grazer herbivores) are in as much danger as Aslan?

Depends upon whether or not the Virushi can function within their zone of influence. Virushi as a people are mostly extreme pacifist anarchists... this would indeed set them at odds with the heavily patriarchal and rigid social hierarchies the K'Kree have; they'd not "be worth the fodder to feed them." Meanwhile, non-mammalian fur bearers might be, for the fibers they can provide.

It's also worth noting that the most common pets in the US are mostly either omnivores or carnivores... their animal tolerance is likely highly utilitarian. Our utilitarian need is control of stores-raiding animals. Mostly of rodents and insects.

I suspect the K'Kree might tolerate insectivores from their fellow fur-bearing non-mammalian endotherms... up to about the 2 kg range. They're unlikely to care about the aquatic predation provided it stays aquatic. Their reaction to herbivorous small animals that raid their caches is likely to be quite terminal...