kuiper objects
- Thread starter Pwyll
- Start date
methane freezes at 90 K, boils at 111 K
nitrogen freezes at 63 K, boils at 77 K
hydrogen freezes at 14 K, boils at 20 K
i assume the near vacuum affects these numbers
seems like there would be a lot of frozen nitrogen and methane on pluto. not much free hydrogen.
further out, objects would be colder
nitrogen freezes at 63 K, boils at 77 K
hydrogen freezes at 14 K, boils at 20 K
i assume the near vacuum affects these numbers
seems like there would be a lot of frozen nitrogen and methane on pluto. not much free hydrogen.
further out, objects would be colder
salamander
SOC-9
You might want to take a gander at this link.
I found this little tidbit interesting:
JTAS also had an article about Oort colonies in one of the Sept.(?) editions. Contact me privately if you're interested in more details.
I found this little tidbit interesting:
That suggests to me that a self-sustaining colony could be established fairly easily given the stunning amount of raw material available in a 100km diameter iceball.
JTAS also had an article about Oort colonies in one of the Sept.(?) editions. Contact me privately if you're interested in more details.
Most Kuiper Belt objects are believed to be icy or carbonaceus asteroids. Some of the ones discovered are large (ie greater than a mile across). While not believed to have as much chance of obtaining useful metals as the main asteroid belt, it is possible. However the problem with them is the distance and their spread. You would travel a lot to get to one, then a lot more to get to the next and so on. This is all based on our current understanding of them (well actually my understanding of them from when I did my final year paper on Kuiper Belt Objects).
Spinward Scout
SOC-14 5K
Am I right in assuming that any culture that has abundant and cheap fusion power would be able to produce unlimited elements? Hydrogen fuses into Helium at about 100 million degrees. Helium fuses into Lithium, Lithium into Beryllium, Beryllium into Boron, and so on down the periodic table. If you can fuse one element, you should be able to create any element with a bit of technological tweaking. All of the elements in the solar system were created by a big fusion ball - the sun. Or it's predecessor. So all you really need from the Kuiper Objects is Hydrogen (i.e. ice before it's refined). If you get a powerful enough fusion plant - you're about a half a step away from the replicators on Star Trek. Once you can create an element - the next step is putting different elements together to make a compound. Once you can make a compound - you can make food, clothes, machinery, etc... Granted, it may take time to figure out the patterns, but the basic technology is there at the beginning of the fusion age. To me, I would think there would be stations around every Gas Giant to pull this abundant resource - hydrogen - to be able to create other, more rare, elements.
Scout
Scout
i found this useful: http://www.apl.ucl.ac.uk/lectures/3c37/3c37-12.html
seems like exploiting a kuiper belt might be significantly easier than an oort cloud. no nasty helium II
however, from the looks of things, the objects would be mostly of ice and carbonaceous nature in both places.
even the kuiper belt seems like a long way to go for resources of such little value.
what else might be out there worth mining?
freakish compounds that only form in really cold conditions, yet remain stable at higher temps
any suggestions?
other stuff you don't find farther in
any suggestions?
or is this sort of operation what you'd see in a system with no gas giants, no planetoid belts, and no water any of the worlds
seems like exploiting a kuiper belt might be significantly easier than an oort cloud. no nasty helium II
however, from the looks of things, the objects would be mostly of ice and carbonaceous nature in both places.
even the kuiper belt seems like a long way to go for resources of such little value.
what else might be out there worth mining?
freakish compounds that only form in really cold conditions, yet remain stable at higher temps
any suggestions?other stuff you don't find farther in
or is this sort of operation what you'd see in a system with no gas giants, no planetoid belts, and no water any of the worlds
M
Malenfant
Guest
While there will be nitrogen and methane and ammonia on Kuiper Belt objects, the bulk of it will actually be made of water ice and some silicate rock.
Methane (CH4) and Ammonia (NH3) and Water (H2O)contain lots of hydrogen, which can be mined. You might even have liquid or solid hydrogen on the really cold bodies.
Nuclear fusion can't create every single element, without a lot of tweaking. The 'fusion chain' naturally (in the middle of stars) goes from Hydrogen to Helium to Carbon to Neon to Oxygen to Magnesium to Silicon to Iron. I probably missed out a few elements there, but the point is that you skip over some elements because not all the elements that you create if you add neutrons and protons to nuclei are stable. And if you fire a helium nucleus at an atom, it's going to go up in mass in fixed steps (by two neutrons and two protons) and skip over the elements in between.
The chain stops at iron, because fusing iron actually requires energy to be put into it - it doesn't liberate energy from the nuclei. This is why stars go supernova - they try to fuse Iron in their cores, lose energy, and the core collapses and the star explodes.
*everything* heavier than Iron (which is actually pretty low down the periodic table) is created in supernova explosions. This is why those elements are rather rare in the universe compared to the lighter ones.
Methane (CH4) and Ammonia (NH3) and Water (H2O)contain lots of hydrogen, which can be mined. You might even have liquid or solid hydrogen on the really cold bodies.
Nuclear fusion can't create every single element, without a lot of tweaking. The 'fusion chain' naturally (in the middle of stars) goes from Hydrogen to Helium to Carbon to Neon to Oxygen to Magnesium to Silicon to Iron. I probably missed out a few elements there, but the point is that you skip over some elements because not all the elements that you create if you add neutrons and protons to nuclei are stable. And if you fire a helium nucleus at an atom, it's going to go up in mass in fixed steps (by two neutrons and two protons) and skip over the elements in between.
The chain stops at iron, because fusing iron actually requires energy to be put into it - it doesn't liberate energy from the nuclei. This is why stars go supernova - they try to fuse Iron in their cores, lose energy, and the core collapses and the star explodes.
*everything* heavier than Iron (which is actually pretty low down the periodic table) is created in supernova explosions. This is why those elements are rather rare in the universe compared to the lighter ones.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
Fusion is more complex than stepping up by twos. For example, Helium fusion requires 3 join to form Carbon rather than 2 joining into Berylium. Carbon fusion is C-C-He->N-N, then N-N-He->O-O.
Data shows that for D-D, D-T, and D-³He fusion there has to be a third nucleus present, acting as a Strong force "catalyst" of sorts. I don't know whether reactions beyond Oxygen are "trinary" as well.
Fusion beyond He requires stupendous temperatures and pressures. Achieveing a break-even energy reaction is not likely to be a break-even cost investment. Mining is soooo much cheaper.
Without a gas giant or inner world with water, Kuiperoids could be the only source of hydrogen. You'd use up so much time and fuel chasing one down that it would be commercially cheaper to jump fuel in for sale.
Data shows that for D-D, D-T, and D-³He fusion there has to be a third nucleus present, acting as a Strong force "catalyst" of sorts. I don't know whether reactions beyond Oxygen are "trinary" as well.
Fusion beyond He requires stupendous temperatures and pressures. Achieveing a break-even energy reaction is not likely to be a break-even cost investment. Mining is soooo much cheaper.
Without a gas giant or inner world with water, Kuiperoids could be the only source of hydrogen. You'd use up so much time and fuel chasing one down that it would be commercially cheaper to jump fuel in for sale.
