Lasers, nerfed

[aramis]

Oh man, I just had a look now, and now I can't find it. I think I read it under "special considerations" or it was on the actual combat chart pages somewhere.

It surprised me, because I didn't recall reading that rule in TTB, and could have sworn it was a Snapshot (or even BK4) only rule.

And yes, I do seem to recall pointing out to my trigger happy friend that panic fire with laser weapons was not allowed under Mercenary.

Just searched all four CT core editions for the word "Panic"
CT-77 not in book 1
CT-81 not in book 1
CT-83 (TTB) one hit, in the adventure.
CT-84 ST not in book 1, but again in the adventure in book 3.
AHL references morale only
Striker - morale only

Book 4 has the panic fire rule.

 

[infojunky]

I don't know Striker, but in AHL Laser Rifles and Gauss Rifles have the same penetration value, and none of them has the exploding extra damage (limited to HE and HEAP rounds)...

It seems Striker and AHL are not as equivalent as I believed from what I have been told...

In terms of equipment no they aren't. the bigger stuff got bigger in Striker in penetration terms.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'll re-read the section tonight .... maybe I was thinking about it when I read something else or something ... I don't know. I could have sworn I came across it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

You know, I just re-read the entire personal combat section, and could not find it. I must have been cruising the net, come across something, and then gone back to reading the personal combat rules or something, and just got the whole lot jumbled in my head.

Many apologies, but I staked my reputation that panic fire was in TTB and not just in Mercenary.

'Hate it when that happens.

related thread; http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=26965

 

[jec10]

I don't know Striker, but in AHL Laser Rifles and Gauss Rifles have the same penetration value, and none of them has the exploding extra damage (limited to HE and HEAP rounds)...

It seems Striker and AHL are not as equivalent as I believed from what I have been told...

I'd never noticed the difference in the exploding rounds rule between AHL and CT/Striker before now.

It would be interesting to hear from Chadwick why the change.

 

[McPerth]

In terms of equipment no they aren't. the bigger stuff got bigger in Striker in penetration terms.

Well, I guess Striker needs heavier stuff than the one used in ship's interiors, that is what AHL represents. After all, there's no point of having tanks , howitzers or heavy support weapons in AHL (and yet the VRF GG is on it :devil...

 

[Blue Ghost]

I seem to recall an infamous "Snapshot" only weapon that fired exploding rounds; a "rocket rifle" that fired three round bursts. I only let one player ever have the thing in all the sessions I Reffed.

*painting and chores beckon*

 

[infojunky]

Well, I guess Striker needs heavier stuff than the one used in ship's interiors, that is what AHL represents. After all, there's no point of having tanks , howitzers or heavy support weapons in AHL (and yet the VRF GG is on it :devil...

Just look at the weapons that exist in both. significant scale creep.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Just look at the weapons that exist in both. significant scale creep.

I only have AHL. Can you explain the difference to people like me who don't have Striker?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I seem to recall an infamous "Snapshot" only weapon that fired exploding rounds; a "rocket rifle" that fired three round bursts. I only let one player ever have the thing in all the sessions I Reffed.

It's already in LBB4:

Accelerator Rifle: Designed specifically for zero-G combat, the accelerator rifle fires a 6 mm, 5 gram bullet at an initial muzzle velocity of 100 to 150 meters per second which upon leaving the barrel is accelerated by a secondary propelling charge to velocities of 700 to 800 meters per second. Normally the rifle fires bursts of three rounds per pull of the trlgger, bur may be adjusted to fire single rounds at the end of any firing round.

I don't remember it being overpowered, just a cheap alternative to lasers in Zero-G.

 

[whulorigan]

It's already in LBB4:

I seem to recall an infamous "Snapshot" only weapon that fired exploding rounds; a "rocket rifle" that fired three round bursts. I only let one player ever have the thing in all the sessions I Reffed.

I don't remember it being overpowered, just a cheap alternative to lasers in Zero-G.

He might be referring to the ARL ("Assault Rocket Launcher" - I don't remember where it first appeared - I think I saw it in JTAS first), which was a heavier caliber auto-fire version of the Accelerator Rifle. I don't recall that the Accelerator Rifle of LBB4 had exploding rounds (that was only certain rounds for the snub pistol), just the secondary rocket-assist for the round so that it could be fired from the rifle with low muzzle velocity and recoil.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, it's been so long since I used that particular weapon that I can't really remember. I do recall one our marine medics having one, and causing all kinds of havoc with the thing. To the point where, in sessions I ran, it became another verboten Gauss device.

 

[infojunky]

I only have AHL. Can you explain the difference to people like me who don't have Striker?

The VRF Gauss gun in AHL has a Pen of 8, in striker 21
The PGMPs and FGMPs got a bump of at least 10 in Pen
Lasers got a couple of points too at the introductory tech levels.

Now I am not talking about Tech Level increases here just the basic as introduced weapons.

I suppose it is the by product of expanding the weapons tables.

 

[jec10]

Of course, CT/Striker also introduced far more effective armour than in AHL at later tech levels. The later tech levels of CA and BD were added, making for a potentially much better protected target for those beefed-up weapons.

 

[kilemall]

He might be referring to the ARL ("Assault Rocket Launcher" - I don't remember where it first appeared - I think I saw it in JTAS first), which was a heavier caliber auto-fire version of the Accelerator Rifle. I don't recall that the Accelerator Rifle of LBB4 had exploding rounds (that was only certain rounds for the snub pistol), just the secondary rocket-assist for the round so that it could be fired from the rifle with low muzzle velocity and recoil.

Not your imagination.

Hmm, looked up the AR in LBB4 it does indeed have a three round burst with great DMs to hit at medium to long range otherwise pretty much like a rifle/auto rifle against armor.

It's that range DM that made them so lethal, equal to the Gauss at medium.

Inexplicably the Striker version has no autofire for it. The ranges are also anemic, making the Snub Pistol the choice for shipboard zero-G.

Perhaps they designed it to look that way in normal G but in low or zero-G the AR gets those environmental multiples and looks better. Still, to make them like their LBB4 selves I would consider multiplying their range x10 and allowing for autorifle autofire DMs.

 

[kilemall]

Of course, CT/Striker also introduced far more effective armour than in AHL at later tech levels. The later tech levels of CA and BD were added, making for a potentially much better protected target for those beefed-up weapons. Cloth went up from 5 to 6 as well.

Er, Flak Jacket is 3, Cloth is 5, CES is 6. Past that point you get into the 8+ range with CA.

 

[jec10]

Yes, my mistake re cloth. I've corrected the post.

My point stands about the CA and BD in CT/Striker. AHL simply gives you one (low) level of protection for each.

 

[infojunky]

Yes, my mistake re cloth. I've corrected the post.

My point stands about the CA and BD in CT/Striker. AHL simply gives you one (low) level of protection for each.

Not sure I would use the appellation Low describing AHL armor. In that it matched the previous releases at the time. AHL was the 1st go at the rules set. And it was Infantry centric, While Striker was the 1st go at vehicle rules, and was very Armor centric.

 

[jec10]

I'm not communicating very well today!

I meant that when one plays AHL you find the only Combat Armour protection is -8 and the only BD is -10. Even TL15 Imperial Marines only get -10 for their BD.

In Striker BD and CA goes up to 18 protection.

So the AHL rating is "low" compared to the Striker rating.

The "scale creep" mentioned by an earlier post in this thread applies to the armour as well to a certain degree.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

He might be referring to the ARL ("Assault Rocket Launcher" - I don't remember where it first appeared - I think I saw it in JTAS first), which was a heavier caliber auto-fire version of the Accelerator Rifle. I don't recall that the Accelerator Rifle of LBB4 had exploding rounds (that was only certain rounds for the snub pistol), just the secondary rocket-assist for the round so that it could be fired from the rifle with low muzzle velocity and recoil.

Not your imagination.

Hmm, looked up the AR in LBB4 it does indeed have a three round burst with great DMs to hit at medium to long range otherwise pretty much like a rifle/auto rifle against armor.

It's that range DM that made them so lethal, equal to the Gauss at medium.

Inexplicably the Striker version has no autofire for it. The ranges are also anemic, making the Snub Pistol the choice for shipboard zero-G.

That might explain why I was not very impressed with it; I never used the basic combat system, only the Striker system.