LBB 6 System Gen Perplexation

[jawillroy]

I'm trying to take Scouts out for a spin, and for the life of me, I cannot follow their star system generation rules without utter bafflement. I'm not even sure how many dice to roll, and when.

Is there, anywhere, a good walk-through? Or should I just close the book and walk away?

 

[aramis]

If you have MegaTraveller, or TNE, or T4, or T20... see if you can follow the charts there. They're the same process (TNE adds some steps to knock things back to end of the Virus Night standards).

Also: Understand that they have two separate sequences. One mode (continuation/Extension) starts with a known mainworld, and builds on. The other mode (Expanded) generates the system, then you pick the mainworld. They use the same tables, but in different order.

Broad overview of expanded gen:

• Generate the stars
  • Number
  • Type for each
  • specific distances
  • Determine orbits around each that are supposed to stay empty (called unavailable)
  • Determine maximum orbits filled for each star.
• Place gas giants
• Place planetoid belts
• generate the other worlds in remaining available orbits. (Standard method, but with modifiers for which orbit.
• Pick mainworld
• knock secondary worlds down, if desired.

 

[jawillroy]

Thanks, Aramis. That's a start, anyhow.

The die rolls for star size - that's two dice, yes? Or one? Because the scale only goes to 12, and going with the "continuation" type system gen you're already adding a +4 if the mainworld is assumed to be pop 8+ world.

And THEN, if it's a binary, the companion's size rolls are + whatever-you-rolled-for-the-primary? Seems like the basic field is going to go way beyond the 0-12 set out on LBB6 P. 28.

So, say I'm doing the continuation-type star system gen for a world with the UPP A 46687B 9:

I roll 2D for basic nature - straightforward. I get 7, a Solitary system. Great.
Next, I roll for Primary type. 2D? Or 1D? There's a +4 mod because the world population is 8+. But the table range is 0-12. So results of 13+ mean 12?

Likewise size: after the errata corrections, that's pretty much guaranteed to be V.

IF I rolled 12 for the primary size, AND there was a companion star, would the mod be +12 to that roll? Or +4, going off the type code on the Companion table? Or what?

Horrible. Horrible.

 

[aramis]

Thanks, Aramis. That's a start, anyhow.

The die rolls for star size - that's two dice, yes? Or one? Because the scale only goes to 12, and going with the "continuation" type system gen you're already adding a +4 if the mainworld is assumed to be pop 8+ world.

And THEN, if it's a binary, the companion's size rolls are + whatever-you-rolled-for-the-primary? Seems like the basic field is going to go way beyond the 0-12 set out on LBB6 P. 28.

So, say I'm doing the continuation-type star system gen for a world with the UPP A 46687B 9:

I roll 2D for basic nature - straightforward. I get 7, a Solitary system. Great.
Next, I roll for Primary type. 2D? Or 1D? There's a +4 mod because the world population is 8+. But the table range is 0-12. So results of 13+ mean 12?

Likewise size: after the errata corrections, that's pretty much guaranteed to be V.

IF I rolled 12 for the primary size, AND there was a companion star, would the mod be +12 to that roll? Or +4, going off the type code on the Companion table? Or what?

Horrible. Horrible.

See bottom 6 lines on page 21...

Conventions: The following conventions apply specifically to the systems
presented here.
Specified die rolls are on two dice unless otherwise noted. The abbreviation D
is used to indicate die or dice. Thus, 1 D mean one die; 3D means three dice.
Die rolls which are modified to less than zero (and for which no specific table
reading or code is indicated) become zero.​

 

[jawillroy]

Die rolls which are modified to less than zero (and for which no specific table
reading or code is indicated) become zero.[/indent]

I suppose the same must be assumed for rolls that go off the opposite end of the scale?
12+ =12?

 

[aramis]

I suppose the same must be assumed for rolls that go off the opposite end of the scale?
12+ =12?

with the possible exception of the maximum orbits, yes.

 

[jawillroy]

Does this look crazy? Used the continuation process. Solitary system with few orbits and plenty gas giants, with the big one in the habitable zone: hence the mainworld as a LGG satellite.

Mainworld ISMIR, 	 A 46687B 9	Rich NS pop @ 300 million
					
Star: SHAIM, Solitary F5 V								

1		planetoid belt				
2		planetoid belt		
3		Lorem		Y-460000				
4		Impsum	SGG				
5		Dolor		LGG 				
	[I]4	Sit		Y-310000				
	40	Amet		G-66642B-9		Farming	Military base	
	45	Consec	G-37A21E-8				
[B]	50	ISMIR		A 46687B 9		Rich	NS	pop @ 300 million[/B]
	55	Tetuer	Y-S00000				
	60	Adip		G-54373B-8				
	65	Scing		G-8B653E-8		
	150	Elit		G-49A46B-8		
	175	Duius		H-47933A-8		
	200	Tellus		Y-S00000		
	225	Donec	Y-100000		[/I]
6		Antedolor		SGG 		
	[I]4	Iaculis		Y-S00000		
	12	Nec			Y-S00000		
	125	Gravid		H-410000[/I]

(italics are satellites, couldn't get my tabs to play nice)
Edit Note: I can get them to play kinda nice for you - [code][/code] tags!

Better! Thanks.

 

[jawillroy]

Here's an aside:
The mainworld of the system I just pulled together, Ismir, has a trade classification of RICH.

The second-largest planet, Adip, has no specific trade classification under the LBB6 rules - but were it on its own, it would be classified as POOR.

Moreover, the mainworld's balkanized, and the other satellites appear to be mostly self-governed.

Would one not be justified in treating the two as separate world for trade purposes? It seems a really great opportunity for the clever merchant. Indeed, a lot of spec cargos that would be cheap to buy on a rich world like Ismir might bring good prices on a world like Adip - were it not just a planetary orbit away.

Pretty much everywhere in the system is high-law, indicating there's horrible red tape preventing this very sort of thing - but a lot of corrupt officials willing to look the other way?

 

[aramis]

Yes, it would. Note that in-system travel costs are somewhat variable, but largely, the trade is likely to be in-system.

Risk losses are much lower in-system (no risk of misjump), and costs considerably less (no J drive means not only not paying 8-16 KCr per ton of drive, but also not losing the fuel tonnage, either. And, on larger cargo haulers, often, one less engineer. The specific cost differential varies by which design system is used.)

 

[jawillroy]

Yes, it would. Note that in-system travel costs are somewhat variable, but largely, the trade is likely to be in-system.

Risk losses are much lower in-system (no risk of misjump), and costs considerably less (no J drive means not only not paying 8-16 KCr per ton of drive, but also not losing the fuel tonnage, either. And, on larger cargo haulers, often, one less engineer. The specific cost differential varies by which design system is used.)

But then too, it gets more interesting here.

It's a balkanized system. I don't recall how it would be in the OTU, but in MTU, the Grand Festrian empire won't let you "in" unless you've got a unified government. Ismir doesn't have that, and those oligarchies on the smaller moons - including Adip - are part of the reason why. Ismir may well not want trade with the little guys to happen at all. But the 100d limit the gas giant puts on things means there's less of a chokehold on the outer moons than the inner ones. So while it might be easy for them to control trade between Ismir and Adip, it's harder for them to put the kibosh on trade with Adip and anyone else... maybe? I haven't had a lot of time to think this through.

Great place to visit with a Yacht. The Starship moseys on towards Ismir, while the Ship's Boat makes a quick run past the trade patrols to hit Adip, and meet up again on the way outsystem...

 

[aramis]

But then too, it gets more interesting here.

It's a balkanized system. I don't recall how it would be in the OTU, but in MTU, the Grand Festrian empire won't let you "in" unless you've got a unified government. Ismir doesn't have that, and those oligarchies on the smaller moons - including Adip - are part of the reason why. Ismir may well not want trade with the little guys to happen at all. But the 100d limit the gas giant puts on things means there's less of a chokehold on the outer moons than the inner ones. So while it might be easy for them to control trade between Ismir and Adip, it's harder for them to put the kibosh on trade with Adip and anyone else... maybe? I haven't had a lot of time to think this through.

Great place to visit with a Yacht. The Starship moseys on towards Ismir, while the Ship's Boat makes a quick run past the trade patrols to hit Adip, and meet up again on the way outsystem...

Now think about this: The Firefly Verse is 5 stars, and several "protostars" that got ignited. (Large brown dwarves, essentially. Big enough to sustain, but not big enough to initiate naturally, a fusion reaction.) If you take the size D's as that (rather than degerate dwarves), you can generate the Firfly Verse just fine with Bk 6. A major system can be a whole campaign setting all its own.

 

[jawillroy]

And now I want to figure out how to map out the Ismir system, with orbital periods so I can calculate planetary distances.

This, I'm reasonably certain, is entirely beyond any maths I know.

 

[aramis]

And now I want to figure out how to map out the Ismir system, with orbital periods so I can calculate planetary distances.

This, I'm reasonably certain, is entirely beyond any maths I know.

Have you figured out their orbital periods? If so, the math isn't THAT hard... Paste the following into excell or numbers...

Date§	Period	Offset	Current degrees
32	245	36	=round(360*mod(($a$2+c2),b2)/b2,1)
	452	400	=round(360*mod(($a$2+c3),b3)/b3,1)

§ Date is in days after system reference date. Offset is how many days from your 0° line. It's arbrtrary. Pick it and leave it alone. Range 0...period.
period is in days. It's fine to use fractions in excel or numbers.

Modulus finds the remainder after division of X by 4. (mod x,y)
the 360 is degrees. Most of us want degrees, not gradians nor radians.

For the relatively low eccentricity orbits, that's all you need.

Formula tested in Numbers.

 

[jawillroy]

Yeah, I figured out periods for the GG moons, and was pleased to see they ended up pretty close to Saturns'. Guess I did something right! So your equations will probably be all I need! THANKS!

 

[aramis]

Yeah, I figured out periods for the GG moons, and was pleased to see they ended up pretty close to Saturns'. Guess I did something right! So your equations will probably be all I need! THANKS!

You're most welcome.

Now... if you look at my website... you'll find my variant of of it in one of the Elestrial Concordat pamphlets...

Once you get a feel, you can tweak it for your own setting needs.

 

[McPerth]

Another interesting moon in this system is Amet. wiht less tan 100000 inhabitants, agricultural, self governed and with a military base.

Who's this base owner? One of the factions in the balkanized government (unlike as it's self governed)? Own military (unlike with such few inhabitants)?

If it was IMTY it would probably be a mercenary corporation base (probably an undercover Imperial one to keep an eye to the whole system).

 

[jawillroy]

Another interesting moon in this system is Amet. wiht less tan 100000 inhabitants, agricultural, self governed and with a military base.

Who's this base owner? One of the factions in the balkanized government (unlike as it's self governed)? Own military (unlike with such few inhabitants)?

If it was IMTY it would probably be a mercenary corporation base (probably an undercover Imperial one to keep an eye to the whole system).

Agreed, Amet's a good part of the puzzle.

None of the smaller worlds, not even Adip, could really take Ismir if it came down to a fight. So there has to be some reason for Ismir not to just step in and take over throughout. I haven't yet decided how fine to divide the nations on Ismir itself, but it seems to me that Ismir is where any of the checks are going to have to take place. As far as MTU Imperium is concerned, they'd rather the government be unified by hook or by crook, and while the empire has some preferences as to the type of government that results, it has few preferences as to how it takes power.

The scout base on Ismir is mainly there to keep a finger on the proceedings.

My current thinking is that on Ismir there appear to be three major factions, which are actually more complex: The continental mainworld polity with the whip hand on the starport is a large type 9 government, commanding between a third and a half of the population: on its own, a population 8. The other "two" factions are type 2 and 3 governments, which in practice amount to dozens of subfactions that work in concert in terms of mutual defense but are by no means unified. I reckon that there has to be at least one more type B port on the mainworld.

The way the dice called things is pretty nice: the innermost populated world, Amet, is connected with the type 2 faction onworld. The military base is theirs: Mainly an insystem navy. The outer moons are oligarchies, associated with the similar factions on Ismir.

The Corporate world might be considered a wildcard except that the population's too low to really matter politically.

The captive government is in the hands of the type 9 faction on Ismir.

I gotta figure out names. And a world map...

 

[jawillroy]

I'm thinking I should recalculate the law levels.

The continuation approach checklist says that the law level of "subordinate governments" should be 1D -3, +main world law level. But with the main world government being type 7, it seems that the, well, insubordinate governments might have law levels more appropriate to their governmental type. The law level of those type 1, 2 and 3 governments should be much less.

EDIT
Just did the rolls. Amet and Duius drop to law 2; Adip and Scing go to law 4, ConSec drops to 0.

Now on the one hand, if I re-roll Elit its law goes to 8. But on the other, it's an actual subordinate government, and it makes sense that the dominant power on Ismir should be doing the ordinating, so maybe Elit's law should stay at 11.

 

[jawillroy]

Now... if you look at my website... you'll find my variant of of it in one of the Elestrial Concordat pamphlets... .

Okay, I got a grip on LBB6 now - thanks so much for the help. I'll check out the pamphlets...

 

[aramis]

I'm thinking I should recalculate the law levels.

The continuation approach checklist says that the law level of "subordinate governments" should be 1D -3, +main world law level. But with the main world government being type 7, it seems that the, well, insubordinate governments might have law levels more appropriate to their governmental type. The law level of those type 1, 2 and 3 governments should be much less.

EDIT
Just did the rolls. Amet and Duius drop to law 2; Adip and Scing go to law 4, ConSec drops to 0.

Now on the one hand, if I re-roll Elit its law goes to 8. But on the other, it's an actual subordinate government, and it makes sense that the dominant power on Ismir should be doing the ordinating, so maybe Elit's law should stay at 11.

Which is perfectly logical, and a good reason to bypass/ignore the rule. Just note that you did so in your system notes, so you don't forget and later go, WTF?