Like hard SFRPGs?

[Trent]

If you like traveller there's a chance you just might like SFRPGs with more science in them. OK, then, if you do like medium to hard SF in your SFRPGs yu might like a new game coming soon called "Eclipse phase" from catalyst labs.

www.eclipsephase.com and http://catalystgamelabs.com/eclipse-phase/


It's billed as a transhuman hard SF game, so maybe it'll be like "transhuman space" but less boring and something you can actually write adventures for. (Most of the time, transhuman space is used to write "ghost in the shell" type adventures.)

It's supposed to be 400 pages(!!!!), hardback, color and 50 USD.

I have it firmly in my targeting scanners and am charging up my money capacitors to nail a copy as soon as it comes in range.:rofl:

As to a traveller link, a lot of people seemed to want a "transhuman" version of traveller. I think as long as the jump rules are left as it, it would work OK. If this game does have some good hard science elements in it it might become a resource for traveller players who like hard SF in their games.

Since this is a polling forum, I guess I'll toss a poll in to keep the mods from whining.

Poll: How hard do you like the science in your SFRPGs to be?

I voted for medium not because I'm a fhan of rubber science, but because so much modern science is obviously incomplete or flawed in some way that, obviously, we have a long way to go. (Example, why is the speed of light 186,222 MPS in vacuum? No one seems to know, so we obviously don't know everything yet. If someone can come up with a "new physics" that is compatible with what we know and plausibly explains what we don't, and is workable, and is used consistently, then it's Ok with me, especially if it allows some neat stuff like star travel. )

 

[sabredog]

Hard enough to keep things consistent and soft enough that I don't have to write a 400+ page book to describe how to play a game. I'd rather spend the time on writing adventures.


"Transhuman", bah, its all the rage I know but I'll leave that to anime, edgy angst-filled cyberpunkers (been there, done that back in the day it all started anyway), and the Xbox. I want human drama in my RPG.

 

[Trent]

Hard enough to keep things consistent and soft enough that I don't have to write a 400+ page book to describe how to play a game. I'd rather spend the time on writing adventures.


"Transhuman", bah, its all the rage I know but I'll leave that to anime, edgy angst-filled cyberpunkers (been there, done that back in the day it all started anyway), and the Xbox. I want human drama in my RPG.

Hmm, because someone is genetically engineered or cybernetically enhanced then you wouldn't consider them "human" anymore?

 

[sabredog]

I didn't say that, if I want to play with transhuman themes I'll go back to running Cyberpunk. For Traveller I like ordinary people caught up in extraordinary circumstances.

More like Alien, Aliens, Outland, 2001, and a whole slew o' books....and less like Ghost in The Shell.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Clarke was the prototype. A true Grand Master.

 

[Gadrin]

Whatever works until it becomes boring.

I've seen all types, and if it's done well...or is at least interesting
it doesn't matter, as long as it works.

Transporters and push a button know everything Tricorders can
be interesting. Too much and it gets old.

Anything scripted can be made to look wunderbar, but if you go
off the script ...

I just finished watching both Ghost in Shell SAC 1 & 2 seasons on
DVD. Great stuff. Plus I like the artwork.

But for a anti-criminal organization, they run roughshod over the
criminals for the most part in the 1st season. By the 2nd season
the criminal is really someone in their own government playing at
their own level. How many times is that going to happen ? But
in a way that's cyberpunk.

Loren Wiseman once mentioned about doing "The Traveller Movie"
and then Firefly came out and well nosedived. Looking at the animations
these days, such as Clone Wars, Ghost in the Shell
and things like Iron Man the Armored Adventures might be the
way of the future.

That way when your actors get fat and old, they can still be around
to voice their part and not look ridiculous trying to save the universe.
Also limits the $50 million dollar sets with 10 cent storylines. I hope
Trek comes back in some fashion with an animation (not necessarily
cartoons). I probably sound dumb, but if the artwork (meaning anything
not "filmed live") is nice, I think people will watch.

It can't be any worse than the stuff already on sci-fi channel, right ?

Now back to your regular programming.

>

 

[aramis]

I'm between Classic Trav and AC Clark...

I like my gravitics, my jump drives, but I don't buy grav focussed lasers, nor TNE Virus, nor HEPlaR's efficiency (.98C He+ exhaust = CPAW)...

I can live without The TravellerMeson weapon, black globes, etc. And I don't buy the CT weapon ranges... nor the TNE ones... all way too long.

And transhumanism is totally uninteresting to me. I don't have ANY interest in it, and don't find it terribly realistic, either.

 

[Trent]

Whatever works until it becomes boring.

I've seen all types, and if it's done well...or is at least interesting
it doesn't matter, as long as it works.

Transporters and push a button know everything Tricorders can
be interesting. Too much and it gets old.

Anything scripted can be made to look wunderbar, but if you go
off the script ...

I just finished watching both Ghost in Shell SAC 1 & 2 seasons on
DVD. Great stuff. Plus I like the artwork.

But for a anti-criminal organization, they run roughshod over the
criminals for the most part in the 1st season. By the 2nd season
the criminal is really someone in their own government playing at
their own level. How many times is that going to happen ? But
in a way that's cyberpunk.

Loren Wiseman once mentioned about doing "The Traveller Movie"
and then Firefly came out and well nosedived. Looking at the animations
these days, such as Clone Wars, Ghost in the Shell
and things like Iron Man the Armored Adventures might be the
way of the future.

That way when your actors get fat and old, they can still be around
to voice their part and not look ridiculous trying to save the universe.
Also limits the $50 million dollar sets with 10 cent storylines. I hope
Trek comes back in some fashion with an animation (not necessarily
cartoons). I probably sound dumb, but if the artwork (meaning anything
not "filmed live") is nice, I think people will watch.

It can't be any worse than the stuff already on sci-fi channel, right ?

Now back to your regular programming.

>

You know, there was an animated trek series in 73-74. The animation was terrible, not even as good as bugs bunny or tom and jerry, but it had some damn good storylines and stood out from typical saturday morning fare of the day even more than TOS stood out from the trash called "Prime time" a decade earlier.

You can get the whole series, all 22 1/2 hour eps, for 15$ at evilmart.

I did, and I'm nor ashamed to say so.

 

[Supplement Four]

For Traveller I like ordinary people caught up in extraordinary circumstances.

Yessirreebob.

More like Alien, Aliens, Outland, 2001, and a whole slew o' books....and less like Ghost in The Shell.

Not to start a Mongoose discussion, but that's how I feel about Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller. CT, to me, is Alien/Aliens/Outland. With Mongoose, I keep seeing it go closer and closer to Ghose in the Shell. Just look at the pic of the Vargr, both duking it out with japanese swords. That's not Sean Connery with a shotgun. That's anime.

Thus...my complaints about what Mongoose is doing to Traveller.

 

[beowulf2044]

Cyberpunk? How quaint and charming. But I haven't been in the mood for nostalgia in quite a while.

For me, I've always thought that surgery was something best avoided if possible. Imagine of one could have their 1980's vintage computers surgically attached. How many surgical upgrades would we have had by now?

Transhuman? Seems like just another super hero take, only you get modified as opposed to being bit by some radioactive arachnid.

Ordinary people; extraordinary situations. That spells heroic adventure for me, thank you.

 

[far-trader]

...Loren Wiseman once mentioned about doing "The Traveller Movie"
and then Firefly came out and well nosedived.

I know a legion of Brown Coats who'd take them as fighten words. Of course they wouldn't come after you until some studio execs* had been made to take a long walk out a short air-lock first

* for being the real reason it didn't get the ratings, or even a shot at making them

As far as a Traveller movie, never happen, the market is too small.

Now a Sci-Fi Adventure movie, that just happened to be made with all the trappings of Traveller, and dare I say even called "Traveller" might have a shot. If you get my drift. There's not enough Traveller fans to make it happen so it's gotta be approached a little more wide audience looking. If you advert it as "the movie based on the RPG" you just lost a huge section of the movie-going public.

Getting the right people is another issue. Even with a great marketable background there's not guarantee as several prospects have proven.

 

[Trent]

Jeez, guys. Instead of pissing and moaning about no traveller movie, why not make one? Get yourself a good free 3d modeller/animator, like blender 3d, get some resources from a college film course and some gamers who can act, and make a traveller movie?

Sheesh, the guys doing "star trek the new voyages" make classic episodes of star trek, with CGI replacing big sets and space scenes, and actors and decent sets covering the rest. Why can't you?

 

[beowulf2044]

I've been enjoying 'Starhunter 2300' lately. It's got the Traveller feel (at least I find it so).

I'm now going off planet for a while. Time and tide willing, I shall return.

 

[lucasdigital]

Yessirreebob.



Not to start a Mongoose discussion, but that's how I feel about Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller. CT, to me, is Alien/Aliens/Outland. With Mongoose, I keep seeing it go closer and closer to Ghose in the Shell. Just look at the pic of the Vargr, both duking it out with japanese swords. That's not Sean Connery with a shotgun. That's anime.

Thus...my complaints about what Mongoose is doing to Traveller.

I certainly don't care much for the post-cyberpunk style art that's associated with the Mongoose line, although I'd hesitate to damn the range on the basis of style. I add my own style, and it most certainly IS inspired by the 70s SF vernacular that holds to the tenets of classic Third Imperium Traveller. Mongoose has set out to capture new players, young blood that only knows Outland from late night reruns. To someone who's half way through their teens, manga and cyberpunk are much more part of the SF landscape than the stuff we enjoyed at their age. This sort of feels like a "Hendricks was better than Greenday" debate. The new stuff might not hold a candle to the old stuff, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to love both.

 

[saundby]

I echo Aramis.

Besides, there are things that my players will accept, and things that half my players will beat to death with math while the other half lose interest and wander away. If something is presented correctly they'll all buy it for a while, but I've got to be mindful of how I play their suspension of disbelief.

 

[Icosahedron]

I voted for medium not because I'm a fhan of rubber science, but because so much modern science is obviously incomplete or flawed in some way that, obviously, we have a long way to go. (Example, why is the speed of light 186,222 MPS in vacuum? No one seems to know, so we obviously don't know everything yet. If someone can come up with a "new physics" that is compatible with what we know and plausibly explains what we don't, and is workable, and is used consistently, then it's Ok with me, especially if it allows some neat stuff like star travel. )

Couldn't have put it better myself - but I'll try anyway.

There's a lot we don't know about science, and the more you know, the more you realise you don't know.

There's often a pseudo-science way of explaining things - 'new physics' as Trent calls it. This is part of the attraction of Traveller for me, figuring out what might be possible and how it might work, figuring out what current limitations we might sidestep and what routes this might open up.

Unlike some posters, I use Traveller as the basis for all my sci-fi, and hence MTU contains a bit of everything. If I want to play cyberpunk, I'll place the game somewhere in MTU where the local TL and LL permit it, and I'll play it with Traveller rules.

Compatibility, plausibility and consistency are the key concepts for me too.

The Q entity fron Trek? - BS. I got up and made a cuppa during that episode.
General Trek? How do phasers work? How do Tricorders work? How do Transporters work? - Way too soft. Good stories though.

Outland and spin-gravity? Great for TL 9-10 worlds in a 5-system federation, but you're not going to create a galactic empire with that tech - Too hard.

But Classic Traveller was just right, and she fell into a dreamy sleep straight away...

 

[the angle]

Hard SF in the vein of Heinlein or Clarke is difficult to reproduce in an RPG, because it relies on a problem that arises not from human interference but from something else -- a technical problem, an enigma, or what-have-you. Then the solution usually involves some sort of technical or technological manipulation of the situation rather than pointing a gun at someone's head. Rendezvous with Rama is a good example. A gun pointing at someone's head is the problem. The solution lies in the communication time lag between Rama and Earth. Writing an adventure like that is tough, and getting your players to think up the proper "hard SF" solution when they might not have much of a tech background is even tougher.

So I have specific issues with calling a game (including Traveller) "hard SF" because it uses SMGs and lasers instead of blasters and phasers. Those are just range and damage numbers that you can call whatever you want. The story is what makes something SF. I'll withhold judgement on whether this new game is "hard SF" until I see it.

Steve

 

[Easterner9504]

New Voyages

The starters of that were all Hollywood backbenchers with enough connections and know how to get it done but at a snail's pace as its all done for free.

However the fact they do it at all belies all those who moan they can't resurrect this or that untimely canceled show.

 

[mike wightman]

There are elements of transhumanism already in CT.

The 3I routinely geneers colonists, the various drugs could easily be seen as some form of transhumanism, and the experience section allows for RNA skill learning and anything else the ref wants to include.

Heck,, the fact that humans in the 3I can ignore the possibilities of disease as they jump from world to world suggests extensive geneering in the past.

As with most ubertech though CT keeps it in the background fro the ref to describe as they see fit.

Ever consider the computer capablilities of a suit of TL13 battledress? All you need to add are personality subroutines and your BD could easily be like the smart suits of the Ken Macleud novels or Iain M Banks culture.
It all depends on how the ref wants to describe the fluff IMHO.

 

[sabredog]

Unlike some posters, I use Traveller as the basis for all my sci-fi, and hence MTU contains a bit of everything. If I want to play cyberpunk, I'll place the game somewhere in MTU where the local TL and LL permit it, and I'll play it with Traveller rules.

Compatibility, plausibility and consistency are the key concepts for me too.

Outland and spin-gravity? Great for TL 9-10 worlds in a 5-system federation, but you're not going to create a galactic empire with that tech - Too hard.

But Classic Traveller was just right, and she fell into a dreamy sleep straight away...

I do the same thing IMTU, which is the biggest reason I never used the OTU or much of anything from it other than finding more names for planets when I ran out.

MTU is a lot smaller than the OTU - it spans only a whole sector, and the Terran Empire is only 1/4 of that because when it gets too big it gets too "Trekkie" feeling. But it is big enough that I have a little of everything in there; even the cyberpunk. It's on a planet outside the Empire called Gehenna and while new players always want to go there and get all jacked up with enhancements they quickly find they can't afford them or they aren't worth it anyway once you get offworld. Regular players hate the place because it always rains, the only city there looks like LA in Bladerunner, and the locals are a mean schemeing bunch who hate it even more and take it out on rubes from off-world.
Organlegger gangs will bushwhack you in an alley and have the meat stipped off you and in thier backpack reefers faster than army ants rolling over a Russian bad guy in an Indiana Jones movie. Nasty nightclubs with loud techno everyone goes to surrounded by Yak bodyguards and hoping to see a someone get shot. Some cute street urchin might shank you in the kidney to take your wallet so he can buy some drugs to forget just how awful his life is before he gets scragged by the aforementioned organlegger gangs. Complain to the cops? Better check the menu board for the day's rate for investigating the crime to see if you can afford it.

I on the other hand, just love sending the players there as often as I can so they can get all the transhumanism and lovely cyberpunk atmosphere they could ever want. An since it has the highest tech level outside Imperial space the players sometimes have to go there to get something they need, but then they hope they don't have to go outside the starport fence to pick it up.

It has the highest level because this is where the high tech megacorps specializing in biologics, wetware of all sorts, AI, artifical lifeforms, and all those other technologies people really want but still vote for laws to regulate or prevent development of for ethical reasons go to avoid said laws. They develop the tech and they then move it into Imperial space when they have perfected it and influenced the government enough to now sell it legally. Players are also available to smuggle it through for patrons unwilling or unable to wait for that government-approved heart to finish growing in the government-approved lab. Or for the guy who can't afford anagathics but wants a younger body anyway - so he gets a whole body replacement either from some "donor", or one that was grown in a Maas-Bioteknica lab on Gehenna. Illegal 'cuz its considered an lifeform, but once you remove the brain it's meat for the rich patron dying of cancer in Imperial space.